Steamport Southport Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 Yes, however it has only been running and on the main line since 2008/9. Phil Twenty year old castings are still twenty years old. Just by existing they are being effected by atmospheric conditions. As soon as it's made it's deteriorating. Jason Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LMS2968 Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 But not subject to dynamic stresses. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PhilH Posted April 15, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 15, 2018 Twenty year old castings are still twenty years old. Just by existing they are being effected by atmospheric conditions. As soon as it's made it's deteriorating. Jason Look out for 66s, 67s, 91s et al disintegrating somewhen soon then... 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Barry O Posted April 15, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 15, 2018 (edited) Twenty year old castings are still twenty years old. Just by existing they are being effected by atmospheric conditions. As soon as it's made it's deteriorating. Jason No , some case harden with time.. and if you think 20 years is a long time look at some of the bridges in Britain, or any of Combat Vehicles (Tracked), or Warrior AFVs. I am sure this will properly investigated and fixed by trained people who know what to look for and how to avoid it happening again. Baz Edited April 15, 2018 by Barry O Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted April 15, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 15, 2018 (edited) I still am not sure why they don't use Sundays for these 'extra specials'. I'd guess for the same reason I seldom go far by train on Sundays. Almost certain to be disrupted by engineering somewhere........ John Edited April 15, 2018 by Dunsignalling 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 I wasn't suggesting it had failed due to the age or standard of material. Just the fact that material deteriorates with age. Put it outside for a few years if you want to test it out. I was just pointing out the fact that it is mostly over twenty years old and not "new". In fact it's existed longer than all the Peppercorn A1s and A2s from start of construction until scrapping, apart from Blue Peter. Started in 1994. That's actually less than ten years younger than all these "ancient" Pacers I keep hearing about.... Jason Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium New Haven Neil Posted April 15, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 15, 2018 Twenty year old castings are still twenty years old. Just by existing they are being effected by atmospheric conditions. As soon as it's made it's deteriorating. Jason They're not castings. Machined forgings. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted April 15, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 15, 2018 I wasn't suggesting it had failed due to the age or standard of material. Just the fact that material deteriorates with age. Put it outside for a few years if you want to test it out. I was just pointing out the fact that it is mostly over twenty years old and not "new". In fact it's existed longer than all the Peppercorn A1s and A2s from start of construction until scrapping, apart from Blue Peter. Started in 1994. That's actually less than ten years younger than all these "ancient" Pacers I keep hearing about.... Jason Jason, the A1 project may have 'started' in 1994, however it was gradual development of planning, funding and then construction of 'parts' as funding allowed and the actual loco didn't really get anywhere near completion until 2007/2008 with the birthday being late 2008 when it first moved under its' own steam.. Peppercorns loco's would have been built in monthsin the late 40s and so even the youngest would have been a teenager when scrapped. Tornado as a 'live loco' is just 9.. Phil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted April 15, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 15, 2018 They're not castings. Machined forgings. So not even genuine, but forgings? No wonder it failed! 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
royaloak Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 Looks like if that had gone in other places like under the wheels could have caused utter devastation. You would be surprised how well the wheels find the rails again after going airborne. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim.snowdon Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 First, I would expect the RAIB to be involved, in which case we will not hear anything definitive for some time. Second, I would be pretty certain that the bits that appear in the photograph are the consequence of the failure, not the cause. Were I to be investigating, and as an ex-Rolling Stock engineer I have done my fair share of failure investigation, I would be looking very closely at the part of the combination lever that is still attached to the engine and the associated parts of the motion. Beyond that, the only people who are in a position to piece together what has happened are the few who have responsibility for conducting the investigations and who have access to the locomotive. Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
roythebus Posted April 15, 2018 Author Share Posted April 15, 2018 66106 was seen rushing south at Retford from Donny yesterday and speculation had it as a Thunderbird. Sorry but I CBA to go and see the 'remains' of the train Down in the p.m and Up in the late afternoon. Quick thanks to roythebus for posting here rather than in Preservation. I have this thing about Tornado being talked about in 'preservation. It is a new locomotive not a preserved/restored item. I suspected it might go to The NVR as it is so handy for Peterborough. I await the news as to how this happened and in a way I hope it was from an external source and not a stress failure of the loco part(s) involved especially if the part was 'mine'. Such a huge shame as it could well, as mentioned, put the mockers on high speed running on the ECML. I still am not sure why they don't use Sundays for these 'extra specials'. Good luck A1ST Phil Railway replacement buses can't do 90mph is the simple answer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
roythebus Posted April 15, 2018 Author Share Posted April 15, 2018 Of course the Deltics never suffered the equivalent failure of putting a rod out of the crank case did they? happens that sometimes shouldn't happen and no doubt steps will be taken to find out why. My contact is a manager at my local steam railway and is one of the top bods with the A1 Trust, so quite a reliable source. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davey Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 So not even genuine, but forgings? No wonder it failed! Sir, do you know what you're talking about? A forging is inherently stronger than a casting. Any machining performed on the forging, as long as it was in accordance with good machining practices, would not intrinsically weaken the forging. The purpose of machining would be to bore/ drill holes for locating pins, etc. Davey Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 Oh dear! 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernard Lamb Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 Oh dear! About the normal standard for this forum. There do seem to be a few people about who lack a sense of humour. Thankfully the failure did not involve any injury to crew or passengers. To me that is the important part. Bernard 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PhilH Posted April 15, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 15, 2018 Sir, do you know what you're talking about? A forging is inherently stronger than a casting. Any machining performed on the forging, as long as it was in accordance with good machining practices, would not intrinsically weaken the forging. The purpose of machining would be to bore/ drill holes for locating pins, etc. Davey It's just possible that you might have missed the irony about the iron here... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted April 15, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 15, 2018 I am grateful to my loyal fans here.... 13 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Davexoc Posted April 15, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 15, 2018 I can just see a journo from the the national press reading through the thread looking for background info. Tomorrows headline will along the lines of 'Steam trains to be banned after Britain's newest loco breaks down due to fake parts' Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted April 15, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 15, 2018 (edited) Forging Forgery Forgery it's fake news Edited April 15, 2018 by PaulRhB Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold russ p Posted April 15, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 15, 2018 You would be surprised how well the wheels find the rails again after going airborne. And quite often they don't, speaking from experience 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
APOLLO Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 As to old locomotives on our main lines a pair of fifty year old class 50's ran from Birmingham to Carlisle and back yesterday, 2 minutes early on the return run passing Boars Head Wigan. The train looked quite grand in BR Blue / Grey. I'm sure the Tornado incident will be quite thoroughly investigated and subsequent repairs duly made. She will be back on the main line (I hope) soon. Perhaps 75 MPH is fast enough. What speed are preserved diesels (as above) allowed to run at ? Brit15 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 4630 Posted April 15, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 15, 2018 (edited) Looks as though the Office of Road and Rail may be taking a bit of an interest in this one: https://twitter.com/IanProsser7/status/985581579215998978 EDITED to substitute RAIB for ORR. Edited April 15, 2018 by 4630 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold russ p Posted April 15, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 15, 2018 As to old locomotives on our main lines a pair of fifty year old class 50's ran from Birmingham to Carlisle and back yesterday, 2 minutes early on the return run passing Boars Head Wigan. The train looked quite grand in BR Blue / Grey. I'm sure the Tornado incident will be quite thoroughly investigated and subsequent repairs duly made. She will be back on the main line (I hope) soon. Perhaps 75 MPH is fast enough. What speed are preserved diesels (as above) allowed to run at ? Brit15 Not sure if all preserved diesels run at design speed but I had the pleasure of driving Deltic 9 at 100mph last year 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Colin_McLeod Posted April 15, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 15, 2018 (edited) And if I were in their shoes that is what I would say too. If it was speed related they would not say that as it would be found out later. Thetefore I believe them that it was not speed related. Edited April 15, 2018 by Colin_McLeod Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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