DCC Diesel Throttle

[hobbyhorse]

If your into modern diesels this could be just thing.

http://protothrottle.com/

[F-UnitMad]

Already been discussed in the USA/Canadian Section.

 

It is not UK/EU wireless compatible so won't be available here anyway.

[WIMorrison]

The wireless should work in Europe without any issues as it is a receiving device, the problem is with transmitters (e.g. wireless routers), however you will have to pay quite a bit on an already expensive bit of kit with import tax and VAT

[Ian Morgan]

The Protothrottle is a transmitter, and communicates with an interface device to  various DCC throttle bus systems. It does not use WiFi and cannot be used in Europe. It is also based on US diesel controls.

 

The Raildriver/ is more like a British diesel control desk, and can be used with JMRI, but is not wireless.

[Oldddudders]

And does it really resemble a present day UK diesel desk, or much more like a control stand in a US loco, as we might expect given its provenance? Do modern UK diesels have 8 notches? Perhaps the GM ones do. 

[pheaton]

66s and 67s....95% of other locos have a stepless power controller....off....on....stepless to full power, there may be markings on the controller handle to give a visual indication but the power controller is notchless, because the engine throttle is increased by air.

Edited April 25, 2018 by pheaton

[newbryford]

 Do modern UK diesels have 8 notches? 

 

Mine has 11...

 

 

 

Oops- wrong topic with apologies to Spinal Tap.

 

Cheers,

Mick

[pheaton]

I suspect the reason they cant ship to the EU is a lack of CE certification. Which is no required in the US or Canada and no doubt OZ

Edited April 25, 2018 by pheaton

[GoingUnderground]

I suspect the reason they cant ship to the EU is a lack of CE certification. Which is no required in the US or Canada and no doubt OZ

We've had similar debates before about the legality of importing and using non-CE certified kit. I thought from those debates that it was legal to import it, but illegal to use it. Or have the regulations moved on since then?

 

Besides the protothrottle website says that they only ship to US, Canada, Oz & NZ and will cancel any ordets received from any other country.

 

The design is very similar to the ZTC 505/511/611. I would have thought that it would fit quite nicely with Taunton Controls new 612 as a cordless throttle for the system, save them having to develop one. But that would need CE certification.

Edited May 21, 2018 by GoingUnderground

[Junctionmad]

They use a standard radio module , would be easy to swap it for a Uk/EU compatible one , it’s open source as well , so you could build one yourself

 

Personally they seem to have over thought CE certification( or fundamentally don’t understand the process ) , it’s a lot easier/cheaper to certify radio devices in Europe then in the US

 

They also could have designed it in the 2.4ghz spectrum had they given it a bit more thought

[WIMorrison]

This would appear to be normal 802.11 as suggested before

 

 

getting it into UK might be a challenge, but using it shouldn't be

[Nigelcliffe]

We've had similar debates before about the legality of importing and using non-CE certified kit. I thought from those debates that it was legal to import it, but illegal to use it. Or have the regulations moved on since then?

 

 

 

Government's website says the manufacturers (though they'd need to be somewhere under UK/EU jurisdiction) and importers are liable.

"If an enforcement body finds your product does not meet CE marking requirements, they will often provide you with an opportunity to ensure it is correctly CE marked. If you fail to comply with this, you will be obliged to take your product off the market. You may also be liable for a fine and imprisonment."

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/ce-marking

 

 

There was a slightly grey area around radio frequency licences and the wireless and telegraphy legislation which meant that some kit in the past might be legal to import and sell, but illegal to use.  I think that happened in the era of CB radio (circa 1980).  But CE stuff post dates all of that.

 

 

 

- Nigel

[Supaned]

I'm a simpleton when it comes to digital radio etc , but as I understand it , the system used (Xbee) is already in use in the UK , so I can't see where the issue lies other than rubber stamping? I can't imagine the power and range of the signal being that harmful surely?

[pheaton]

We've had similar debates before about the legality of importing and using non-CE certified kit. I thought from those debates that it was legal to import it, but illegal to use it. Or have the regulations moved on since then?

 

Besides the protothrottle website says that they only ship to US, Canada, Oz & NZ and will cancel any ordets received from any other country.

 

The design is very similar to the ZTC 505/511/611. I would have thought that it would fit quite nicely with Taunton Controls new 612 as a cordless throttle for the system, save them having to develop one. But that would need CE certification.

From a single user personal point of view no issues with legality, your using at your own risk, however it would illegal to sell or distribute commercially, low voltage* electrical goods without a ce marking. Which doesent just cover the electrical aspects of the item....

 

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/ce-marking

 

Again this is purely speculation as to why they are not selling kit here. The other possibility the xbee module which handles comms between the receiver and the handset is i believe (happy to be corrected) outside the unlicensed UK radio transmission bands, a quick search shows that the xbee pro module seems to operate on 900mhz. Any radio amateurs would be able to confirm this, which is why they need a license to pursue their hobby.

 

There is nothing stopping you importing it.....from a legality point of view your operating an RF transmitter on a licensed band....without a license, could you be caught......possibly and if it was traced to your train-set.....(time consuming but not difficult to do, and you would have to be causing a major nuisance). But there is a law you can fall foul of....

 

the xbee is a product range supaned, some of them use 802.11b which is perfectly legal in the uk where as the xbee pro which is whats pictured on the pro throttle page uses radio on the 900mhz frequency. Again speculation but they have gone with that for simplicity in the handset as well as low power consumption whilst avoiding all the general pitfalls of wifi...

 

  

shame really because if they could come up with a british or well.....less GM'ised version i think id be quite tempted....

 

edit just looked it up 900mhz is used on european GSM bands, so if this device was configured to use the same bands you could possiibly maybe...... start interfering with mobiles, and that would get you noticed quite quickly!!! And if they can see the interference at the cell towers it wouldnt take them long at all to figure out where you are....

Edited May 29, 2018 by pheaton