Battersby junction (NER) signalling diagram

[clachnaharry]

Can anyone explain the arrangement of the starting signals?

 

https://www.railscot.co.uk/img/34/658/

 

[micknich2003]

Can anyone explain the arrangement of the starting signals?

 

https://www.railscot.co.uk/img/34/658/

To which signals on the signalbox diagram are you reffering to?

[5BarVT]

Hi Clachnaharry,

Assuming you mean “Why are they provided?”, I think it is so that shunting at Battersby can take place without requiring the token to go into the section. In particular, a freight would have been able to run round as 20 in the siding can be cleared up to 21 or 24. I need to be a little careful here as I know the signalling but the associated operational rules can sometimes trip me up!

HTH, Paul.

[russ p]

Battersby was always unusual in that the section signals were outside the home signals

[iands]

Battersby was always unusual in that the section signals were outside the home signals

Not quite sure what you mean there Russ. As the section signals control movement into the next "section", so won't they always be outside the "home" signals?

 

Regards, Ian.

[beast66606]

Not quite sure what you mean there Russ. As the section signals control movement into the next "section", so won't they always be outside the "home" signals?

 

Regards, Ian.

 

I think what Russ is getting at is to shunt towards the section signal in the case mentioned would require the single line to be blocked and no train can head towards the shunt move from the next box (or the shunt move could not happen if one had been accepted) whereas if the home signals were outside the starters a train could be accepted while a shunt was taking place (assuming certain distances apply)

[clachnaharry]

To which signals on the signalbox diagram are you reffering to?

 

the picture is too blurred to read the signal numbers, but on the diagram, we have a "main" platform (with run round loop) and a bay.There are diverging routes at the throat, the right hand line to Whitby and the left hand line to Middlesborough.

 

The main platform has two starting signals on the same post. Presumably one reads for the Whitby line and the other for the Middlesborough line. There is what I think is a more conventional splitting starter beyond the signal box, which I think reads from the bay platform to the respective lines.

 

I am just looking for confirmation that my interpretation of purpose of these rather unusual starting signals is correct.

[beast66606]

Signals 23 and 25 (I think) - the single post with two arms does indeed read top arm to the left, botton arm to the right(straight on on the diagram) - normally stacked arms such as this read top arm to the left most route, next down the next left most etc. (also applies to ground signals)

[russ p]

That's how it worked top for Middlesbrough and bottom for Whitby whereas the bay they were left and right on a bracket

[The Stationmaster]

I think what Russ is getting at is to shunt towards the section signal in the case mentioned would require the single line to be blocked and no train can head towards the shunt move from the next box (or the shunt move could not happen if one had been accepted) whereas if the home signals were outside the starters a train could be accepted while a shunt was taking place (assuming certain distances apply)

 

A shunt towards the Section Signal would go outside (i.e. effectively in rear of) the Home Signal) as you say.  That presents no problem at all Regulations wise as it would be dealt with as a shunting  movement outside the protection of the Home Signal and signalled on the bell as a 3-3 Block Back.  It was (and might still be - I haven't checked) permissible to do this at the same time at both ends of a single line section but as Beast says it could not be done if a train had been accepted.  

 

In reality the position of the most advanced Starting Signal was irrelevant - there were numerous places where shunts were made into single line sections where there was no Advanced Starting Signal and in quite a number of those places there was even a subsidiary Shunt Ahead arm provided for such movements (one example being Chipping Norton where the shunt was made into the tunnel at one end of the station and the same happened at Ledbury).  The relevant bit is whether or not the shunt went outside the Home Signal.

[russ p]

Battersby was also unusual in that there was no stop board or signal on the main platform and the stops weren't the fixed signal as in a lot of termini as there were loose points before them.

When running round goods or passenger we used run into the main platform and use the loop but only going behind the shunting disc.

The loose points used to be spring points but I thought they were sprung opposite to the way they are laying in the picture but its a long time ago now so could be wrong

[MarkC]

Do these links help?

1959

https://signalbox.org/diagrams.php?id=225

 

1989

https://signalbox.org/diagrams.php?id=162

[russ p]

It looks like the arrangement for homes and starters goes back a long time