Turntables used for Loco Release at Termini

[brossard]

Thinking about a 7mm exhibition layout and wondering about how to save length.  The loco release at the terminus tends to take up a lot of length since the coach must not foul the turnout.  I saw a layout using a turntable over the weekend but didn't it much thought.  However, on reflection, I think this might be a way to save space and include a feature rarely modelled.

 

I know Alston (LNER) had a turntable which enabled loco run around and entry to the loco shed.

 

I haven't found any pictures of these and would like to know more about them.

 

Has anybody done such a thing?

 

Thanks

 

John

[robert17649]

I believe that North Woolwich had a turntable which would have been useful as a run round.

[dpgibbons]

This thread will give you some leads on turntables, traversers and sector plates at platform ends

 

https://www.newrailwaymodellers.co.uk/Forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=47133&sid=be5e36fc90bb423c1b82f89acc651fd8&start=15

[brossard]

Thanks for the link DP, it contains some very useful pictures and ideas. 

 

John

[birdseyecircus]

Withernsea in the east coast branch from Hull also featured a turntable.

www.disused-stations.org.uk/w/withernsea/index.shtml

 

Paul

[mike morley]

Kerry, on the Cambrian branch up from Abermule, originally had a sector plate to release locos.  When locos became too long for the plate it was later replaced by a conventional set of points.

[jazzer]

I believe that North Woolwich had a turntable which would have been useful as a run round.

North Woolwich did indeed have a turntable at one stage and the basic t/table well and wall around it can still be seen in what remains of the derelict station to this day. However the actual t/table itself was removed I think some time around the 1920's or perhaps earlier and replaced by a conventional engine release with points.

 

The problem with a turntable is that if it is going to be used for anything bigger than small tank engines it needs to be too big to fulfill the object of saving space.

 

I stand to be corrected but I have a feeling there was a terminus on the Isle of Wight that utilised a t/t for engine release, but a more realistic and prototypical arrangement might be a traverser as used in Birmingham Moor St if my memory serves me correctly.

 

Hope this helps

[ejstubbs]

There are at least two previous RMWeb threads about prototype examples of the use a turntable for loco release:

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/91783-turntable-at-a-terminal-station/

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/57454-small-turntable-as-part-of-the-run-round-loop/

[Titan]

Another solution could be to use a station pilot for shunt release. Several terminus stations would have arrival and departure platforms. The train would arrive, after the passengers got off the coaches would be shunted in to a different platform releasing the loco. Could make for more interesting operation. If you have any kind of goods yard near the station the shunting engine could double as the station pilot.Of course if you are running a more suburban service then the fresh loco would just couple straight on the back of the arriving train and take it back out again. At Liverpool Street they reckoned that they could complete the operation in about the same time it took a driver to walk from one end of an EMU to the other...

 

Of course it depends on how small the terminus is. the above is probably not an option for a small branch line terminus as it would not be big enough to justify it. 

[Joseph_Pestell]

North Woolwich did indeed have a turntable at one stage and the basic t/table well and wall around it can still be seen in what remains of the derelict station to this day. However the actual t/table itself was removed I think some time around the 1920's or perhaps earlier and replaced by a conventional engine release with points.

 

The problem with a turntable is that if it is going to be used for anything bigger than small tank engines it needs to be too big to fulfill the object of saving space.

 

I stand to be corrected but I have a feeling there was a terminus on the Isle of Wight that utilised a t/t for engine release, but a more realistic and prototypical arrangement might be a traverser as used in Birmingham Moor St if my memory serves me correctly.

 

Hope this helps

 

You are thinking of Ventnor. A very small turntable, just big enough for the 02 tank locos. I believe that it was not actually used as a turntable but just as a means to do exactly what the OP wants to do, save space in a very constricted location.

 

Edit to add: And of course Bembridge, although not so much space constraint there.

Edited May 1, 2018 by Joseph_Pestell

[Joseph_Pestell]

Withernsea in the east coast branch from Hull also featured a turntable.

www.disused-stations.org.uk/w/withernsea/index.shtml

 

Paul

 

IIRC, the turntable at Withernsea lay beyond a point that accessed the platform run-round loop. So it would not save the space that the OP is looking for.

[Guy Rixon]

There was a turntable release at Ramsgate Harbour, which had two platforms, four platform roads and a centre road. The station was squeezed in between the harbour and the approach tunnel, so saving length would have been very valuable.

 

A turntable release saves space lengthways, by the length of a turnout, but consumes extra space laterally. It's a better option in wider, multi-platform stations.

[ejstubbs]

IIRC, the turntable at Withernsea lay beyond a point that accessed the platform run-round loop. So it would not save the space that the OP is looking for.

 

The OS would seem to support that belief:

 

[clachnaharry]

Rothbury NBR and Alford GNSR also come to mind. In both cases the engine shed was also accessed from the same turntable.

[Judge Dread]

The OS would seem to support that belief:

 

As can be seen, the turntable here worked the access to the other track in place of a full point, however at  Hornsea, just up the coast, there was a point clear of the turntable and beyond a level crossing. This particular subject has been raised before and it was pointed out the turntable was in the goods yard. That was true but said turntable was removed in favour of the one across the road way.Just before the closure  of this branch line to Hull, the turntable was removed altogether.   

[DCB]

Thinking about a 7mm exhibition layout and wondering about how to save length.  The loco release at the terminus tends to take up a lot of length since the coach must not foul the turnout.  I saw a layout using a turntable over the weekend but didn't it much thought.  However, on reflection, I think this might be a way to save space and include a feature rarely modelled.

 

John

The issue with many exhibition layouts is the run round loop is too short, the point at the country end of the run round at prototype stations is often a very long way from the buffers and a very long way from the platform end.  The length between buffers and run round points at the platform end varies, it can be long but Faringdon was not long enough for a 2-6-0 and they had great difficulty when one turned up.   The platform end turntable looks artificial unless it is one of the few stations with this feature or set in the 19th century.

Prototype practice seemed to be for trains to run  into the platform and stop close to the buffers, de cant passengers, set back clear of the points, uncouple, draw forward, change points sometimes by hand lever, and reverse.   After running round the train can be pushed back if required if the platform is not long enough otherwise (as in Bodmin).   The setting back is rare at exhibitions probably because prototypical starting of so many locos is impossible but it does make positioning a tension lock uncoupler a lot easier.

[melmerby]

a more realistic and prototypical arrangement might be a traverser as used in Birmingham Moor St if my memory serves me correctly.

 

Hope this helps

Yourr memory is correct. There were two of them, one either side of the central platform.

 

Snow Hill originally had sector plates in the bay platforms.

http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/b/birmingham_snow_hill/41_snow_hill_sector_table_gwr_steam_museum_trust.jpg

 

Keith

[Fat Controller]

Transversers are still being installed in some locations, such as the newest container terminal at Felixstowe:- https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Felixstowe/@51.9697778,1.2877517,141m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x47d97635581d89a3:0x821bdd4b6b3e6df0!8m2!3d51.961726!4d1.351255?hl=en

[Crantock]

Yourr memory is correct. There were two of them, one either side of the central platform.

 

Snow Hill originally had sector plates in the bay platforms.

http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/b/birmingham_snow_hill/41_snow_hill_sector_table_gwr_steam_museum_trust.jpg

 

Keith

 

Can anyone talk me through that Snow Hill sector plate.  In particular the third track on the RHS.  Is this just to ensure there is never a point in time when there is not a track connected to the platform road?

[brossard]

Many thanks to all for showing interest in the question. 

 

I have never heard of sector plates being used in the real world, worth getting out of bed today.

 

The Rothbury track plan (post # 3) looks like something that can adapted and the multi-use aspect is interesting.

 

Lots to mull over.

 

John

[Joseph_Pestell]

Many thanks to all for showing interest in the question. 

 

I have never heard of sector plates being used in the real world, worth getting out of bed today.

 

The Rothbury track plan (post # 3) looks like something that can adapted and the multi-use aspect is interesting.

 

Lots to mull over.

 

John

 

Other than Snow Hill, I can't think of any other use of sector plates in the UK. Next nearest, Boulogne Maritime.

 

So the turntable is the most space saving option.

 

A bit left-field, but Crystal Palace High Level could make a cameo layout in O. The turntable lay to the south of the Farquhar Rd overbridge with the station platforms, below an overall roof, to the north of the bridge. Sort of an MPD layout without the locoshed.

[brossard]

Hi Joseph, the layout will have an operating length of 12' and be 2'3" wide.  Sector plate will be an additional 5' or 6' long.   I'm trying to see what can be done to get the most out of the length.

 

I was playing on a layout over the weekend that is roughly the same size and had the time of my life.

 

John

[melmerby]

Can anyone talk me through that Snow Hill sector plate.  In particular the third track on the RHS.  Is this just to ensure there is never a point in time when there is not a track connected to the platform road?

That's correct.

3 tracks to cover two lines, in the same way the traversers at Moor St. had 3 tracks to serve two lines.

The sector plate/traverser only has two positions, that way the two running lines are always connected to ones on the sector/traverser.

 

Keith

[richard.h]

The OS would seem to support that belief:

 

There used to be a photo in the cafe that was built on the site of the old turntable that showed a loco which had over-run the turntable and ended up half in the road (prototype for everything).

Have not been for many years so don't know if its still there.

[melmerby]

The only thing there now is an Aldi Supermarket!

 

Keith