First attempt at renumbering in N gauge

[jamespetts]

For reference, here are pictures of the results of a single sprayed coat of yellow paint on both sides. As can be seen, it has barely affected the underlying black.

[millerhillboy]

Can I ask how the primer will assist? I had thought that the purpose of primer was to allow paint to key onto a surface so as not to flake off - how would primer be better here than more coats of yellow?

Its a fair question which I dont know the technical detail off, but my thinking was that black shows through some colours, but not so much primer. I think grey primer would hide the black, at least that'd be my expectation. From that I'd expect yellow to go nicely onto the primer.

[jamespetts]

What sort of primer do you recommend?

[millerhillboy]

What sort of primer do you recommend?

I typicslly have used believe it or not halfords regular grey primer. I dont recall having a problem. However just looking on my workbench there I have a can of tamiya fine surface primer.

 

I'm not quite sure where it came from or why, but i have a lot of faith in Tamiya products based on experience and fine surface sounds better than something for cars, you'd think anyway.

 

Trouble is I cant even recall using the fine surface primer and I what I would hace used it on!!

[jamespetts]

Have you any views on Phoenix Precision Paints' primer?

[millerhillboy]

Have you any views on Phoenix Precision Paints' primer?

Fraid not, I'm sure it'd be fine. You'd hope anyway.

[jamespetts]

I will have to try that. Have you had good results with primer when used for masking a below darker coloured paint?

 

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In any event, I have now completed the BR blue class 121 - I was able to complete one without the lettering set numbers because this one for some reason did not have a letter before its set number (see the photograph of W55024 above), and my multiple unit stock book from 1989 confirms that this was still in BR blue in 1989.

 

 

 

The waterslide transfers seemed to work well as usual, but I had terrible difficulty using the dry rub transfers, in particular, getting each individual numeral in the right place, as there is no possibility of repositioning these as there is tiwh water slide transfers.

 

 

 

Dry rub transfers at this size do not seem to be a practical proposition. I wonder whether I should acquire a set of waterslide transfers (from Fox, perhaps) for this task.

Edited July 12, 2018 by jamespetts

[jamespetts]

As to the class 47, someone at the Model Railway Club recommended Strip Magic. Does anyone have any experience of/views on this?

[Steadfast]

It's great to see someone having a go and learning and asking the questions - surely the point of these forums!

The primer will help unify the surfaces. In some cases it's different materials, in this case, it's different colours. I'd suggest a white or yellow primer under yellow paint, grey will probably be nearly as hard to cover as the black, may lead to the yellow looking a bit greeny. It's probably worth priming the entire yellow area, to give a uniform finish across the front, as you'll probably never get the paint to match what Bachmann applied exactly.

 

Jo

Edited July 13, 2018 by Steadfast

[millerhillboy]

Good point about the grey underneath yellow. I might not have hit that problem as I dont model the full yellow ended period and have used decals for yellow warning panels when needed.

Edited July 13, 2018 by millerhillboy

[millerhillboy]

It's great to see someone having a go and learning and asking the questions - surely the point of these forums!

Totally agree

[jamespetts]

Thank you both very much for your thoughts. Is white or yellow primer likely to be better than attempting to strip with Strip Magic or similar? If so, it would help me to know why.

 

Assuming that primer is the way to go, do people recommend brushing primers such as this white primer from Phoenix Precision Paints, or an aerosol primer such as this aerosol primer of unknown colour from Railmatch?

Edited July 13, 2018 by jamespetts

[millerhillboy]

Second point first, never bother with brushing. You'll never get the quality of finish you want witha brush.

[jamespetts]

Second point first, never bother with brushing. You'll never get the quality of finish you want witha brush.

 

Even with primer which  will be covered with spray?

 

Also, how many coats of white primer am I likely to need to cover black?

Edited July 14, 2018 by jamespetts

[Steadfast]

I swear by Halfords primers. Spray it on in nice little coats, build up the colour slowly.

That paint stripper I've never used so don't know how it behaves with Bachmann paint. It may simply remove the black, it may mess up the yellow completely or it may not touch the black at all.

Some light abrasion, with very fine wet and dry paper used lightly, or a fibreglass pencil, may help to reduce the intensity of the black before overcoating. Even if it doesn't remove it totally, it should help thin it down. Just remember, slowly slowly so you don't scratch the underlying surface, that will show through the paint

 

Jo

[jamespetts]

Thank you for your reply: that is most helpful. One query, however: if I am using many, many coats, will this not suppress the detail on the moulded plastic?

[Owd Bob]

Have you thought of using a filler primer? I recently used one called 'autotek Professional' and it is Yellow in colour, one coat might be enough to cover the Black and can then be flatted down if it's too thick as said before with very fine wet & dry papers.

[Steadfast]

Not if they are thin coats. Several thin coats better than one thick one. As Owd Bob pointed out, filler primer is yellow, I use Halfords, which I believe is exactly the same stuff as Hycote, as Hycote make it for Halfords. This covers much better than white primer. One thin coat may well be enough

 

Jo

Edited July 14, 2018 by Steadfast

[millerhillboy]

Even with primer which  will be covered with spray?

 

Also, how many coats of white primer am I likely to need to cover black?

I just wouldnt bother with a brush finish full stop. I dont know for sure but I reckon you'd still see the strokes

[jamespetts]

I have managed to get virtually all of the black off on both sides with a mix of a fibreglass pen(cil) on the side on which none had been taken off to get it started, and, on both sides, Brasso applied with extra fine cotton swabs and then cocktail sticks. I have so far put on three coats of the yellow paint (having removed the original single coat), and it is likely to need 2-3 more coats. The Railmatch aerosol seems to give extremely thin coats, and creates not so much a defined jet of paint ahead of the can but a sort of fine mist in the area around the can nozzle when spraying, giving extremely thin coats.

[jamespetts]

A little more progress with the NSE class 47 - it took a lot of coats to cover the previous appearance of unevenness, but I think that I now have the correct thickness.

 

 

However, the correct thickness to cover the panel evenly seems to have left a great deal of residue once the masking tape was removed:

 

 

I have spent some time carefully cleaning this away with a cocktail stick, and this has made a great deal of difference, but some crispness has been lost around the edge of the indented area where paint has accumulated, and, in some cases, caked, cracked and flaked. I am not entirely sure how best to deal with this and any assistance would be appreciated.

 

One additional problem is that the yellow paint seems to have found its way inside the bodywork and has coated the insides of the windows:

 

 

I have managed to get quite a lot of this off by scraping with a wooden cocktail stick, but there is still a yellowish tinge to the windows and misting/flecks in the less accessible corners. I believe that thinner will permanently cloud the windows, so any tips as to how best to remove this will be appreciated.

 

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Somewhat easier was the renumbering of 47612 "Titan" to 47613 "North Star", as this required no change in livery except for the repainting of the red buffer beam to black:

 

47613, 47526 and 47814, Bristol Bath Road, June 16th 1989 by Robert  Tarling, on Flickr

 

 

I used Railtec transfers for the numbers and Fox etched nameplates:

 

 

 

I seem not to have applied enough varnish to one of the sides, so I will have to re-mask and re-coat when I get a chance. Attaching the nameplates using UHU Universal Adhesive applied in tiny quantities with a cocktail stick seemed to work well.

 

I also renumbered a Dapol class 58 in coal sector grey to 58004 (and realise that I have not taken photographs of this) using the same technique to attach the etched BR arrows, which had to be moved from one cab end to the other. I am not quite sure how best to deal with the marks/residues left behind by the factory fitted BR arrows, however, so any assistance would be appreciated.

[millerhillboy]

47613 looks very good, looks like you are getting there with your techniques, from normal viewing distance the cabside digits look very good. Looks like you worked hard to get the nameplate lined up as well, as it looks spot on, so again well done.

I'm not sure if its worth mentioning and it definitely falls into the pernickety category but it looks like there is a tiny sign of where the nameplate was cut from the etch. I could be wrong but underneath the T there looks like there is a tiny stub.

Before I put plates on I look at them under a magnifying glass and try to get rid of those little stubs with either a super sharp scalpel or miniture file.

As I say pernickety but as you seem keen on building up your skills I thought it worth mentioning.

[millerhillboy]

regarding your NSE 47, can I ask what happened to the masking, I'd suggest that is the root of your problem. Was the masking like that before you started spraying? i.e quite ragged?

 

Where possible I would use the edge of the tape as it comes off the roll, you'll not do much better for a straight edge than that, so where possible use that. If not use a brand new scalpel to cut the shape you want to mask.

 

How did you apply the masking tape, did you try and cut out the shape once tape was applied? I can't quite figure out how you've approached that.

[millerhillboy]

regarding the residue left on the 58, personally I'd soften up the residue using microsol/microset, letting it soften for a minute or two. After that it will be slightly gloopy, I'm assuming here that its been the adhesive used to fix the arrows.

 

then I'd use my faber castell eraser pencil (sharpened to a tip) with just the very lighttest of lightest touches, basically like rubbing out like you would with pencil, super super light. I find that you can get rid of surface residue with no impact to the paint other than a very slightest dull patch, it'll be the same dull patch that you get when you use brasso to remove a number, no actual change to colour. Almost always I'm sealing with varnish thereafter so the dull patch will disappear.

Edited July 20, 2018 by millerhillboy

[jamespetts]

Thank you for your thoughts and kind words. As to North Star, the name plates were not cut from the etches in that point, but rather at the ends, which I did file before use; I think that beneath the "T" must be a speck of dust or similar.

 

In relation to the NSE liveried class 47, I have managed to clean it up somewhat at the front end:

 

 

The reason, if I recall correctly, that the masking tape became ragged around the edges is that I had applied it before I had used the glass fibre brush to try to abrade away the black paint, and that brush had caused this damage to the edges of the masking tape.

 

I do not think that this explains the overspray on the inside affecting the windows, however.