robertcwp Posted May 6, 2018 Share Posted May 6, 2018 I acquired this slide a few days ago: 123_Didcot_c1968 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr Looking more closely, the fifth car is blue and appears to be an Inter-City trailer second: 123_Didcot_c1968_crop by Robert Carroll, on Flickr I think I did once see a black and white photo of what appeared to be a 123 car in blue. Does anyone know of any other images of 123s in this livery please? 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRman Posted May 6, 2018 Share Posted May 6, 2018 Robert, I don't think that's a class 123 car in blue. From the profile and window arrangement (such as I can make out), it looks more like a class 104. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonny777 Posted May 6, 2018 Share Posted May 6, 2018 I wonder if it could be this one? http://www.railcar.co.uk/images/2385 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertcwp Posted May 6, 2018 Author Share Posted May 6, 2018 I wonder if it could be this one? http://www.railcar.co.uk/images/2385 That's the photo I had in mind. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRman Posted May 6, 2018 Share Posted May 6, 2018 It is possible - there were all sorts of oddities in the earlier years of BR blue. Looking at the pic in Jonny777's post, I still can't say for sure it's a 123. It may be optical illusion due to the darker colour, but the large windows on the blue vehicle look smaller than those on the blue and grey one.However, I would be very happy to be proved wrong, as it gives modellers even more excuse to mix liveries. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted May 6, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 6, 2018 It is possible - there were all sorts of oddities in the earlier years of BR blue. Looking at the pic in Jonny777's post, I still can't say for sure it's a 123. It may be optical illusion due to the darker colour, but the large windows on the blue vehicle look smaller than those on the blue and grey one. However, I would be very happy to be proved wrong, as it gives modellers even more excuse to mix liveries. Hi SR I have just put a straight edge to the top and bottom of the windows in Stu's photo. The are the same size. It is a class 123 TS, even in Roberts photo you can count 8 windows 3 doors and a toilet. It wouldn't be hauled stock, a SK or SO or TSO in the middle of the train as the air supply to the last power car wouldn't be made, plus I am unaware of any all blue corridor passenger carrying stock and the widows would be different heights. It is highly unlikely to be a class 124 trailer, these were the only ones that visually matched the 123s, except bogies, and they were all painted blue grey as far as I know. These were not mixed with 123s until 123s were sent northwards. The only all blue TSOs I can think of were SR EMUs and the MU system wouldn't work. The TSOs in the 309s went from maroon to blue grey, there were no blue 309s. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonny777 Posted May 6, 2018 Share Posted May 6, 2018 It is possible - there were all sorts of oddities in the earlier years of BR blue. Looking at the pic in Jonny777's post, I still can't say for sure it's a 123. It may be optical illusion due to the darker colour, but the large windows on the blue vehicle look smaller than those on the blue and grey one. However, I would be very happy to be proved wrong, as it gives modellers even more excuse to mix liveries. Yes I thought the windows on the blue coach looked different too. They appear to be a completely different profile to the 123 window visible. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonny777 Posted May 6, 2018 Share Posted May 6, 2018 After reading Clive's message I may have to look at the windows again, but the presence of an all blue TS would imply it came from an all blue unit, and no evidence of that has ever surfaced (unless I have missed it). Surely there would be no reason to paint just one vehicle in blue and the other three in blue/grey? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted May 6, 2018 Share Posted May 6, 2018 I'm sure I have seen another photo of an all-blue unit on its own at Cardiff; posted by Brian Rolley a few years ago, IIRC. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
royaloak Posted May 6, 2018 Share Posted May 6, 2018 (edited) I'm sure I have seen another photo of an all-blue unit on its own at Cardiff; posted by Brian Rolley a few years ago, IIRC. Link in post #3 but I am not convinced it a class 123 vehicle. Edited May 6, 2018 by royaloak Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted May 6, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 6, 2018 (edited) There seems to be some yellow on end here between the 4th and 5th carrage 9E9DDC68-AF0F-41EE-B065-92AB9D2DA4DE.jpeg Brian The yellow is from the fourth coach, look how far the yellow goes around the front of a 123. If the fifth coach was a driving car I cannot see a double arrow badge. Edited May 6, 2018 by Clive Mortimore Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonny777 Posted May 6, 2018 Share Posted May 6, 2018 I have looked through 1967 Railway Observers, but can't find any mention of an extended 123, although their S Wales coverage seems rather thin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted May 6, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 6, 2018 Wonder if they got a 4 car set and just added an extra 2 cars on end for extra capacity Brian Hi Brian That is what Stu (Lapford34102) says on the caption to his photo on the railcar site. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
royaloak Posted May 6, 2018 Share Posted May 6, 2018 (edited) The yellow is from the fourth coach, look how far the yellow goes around the front of a 123. If the fifth coach was a driving car I cannot see a double arrow badge. I am not convinced because there isnt really any yellow above the cab window like there is on the front coach. After looking at the link to the picture in link 3 I concur, the yellow is on the 4th coach but I still think the 5th is a trailer of some description. The 5th coach appears to be a trailer as there isnt any engine gubbins (technical term) visible, just the battery boxes etc so could it be the middle coach of a 3 coach set and one of its power partners on the back?. Edited May 6, 2018 by royaloak Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swindon 123 Posted May 6, 2018 Share Posted May 6, 2018 I have a photo in my collection of a 123 set at Bristol TM around 1968, which is made up of a 4/3 car set, with a DMBS and a TS added to it. What is interesting is the DMBS is in all over Green and the TS is in Blue. It is definatively a Cl 123 as you can make out the B4 bogies. The 3rd vehicle is another DMBS, cab adjacent to the TS, in Blue/Grey and what looks like a TC in Blue/Grey as the 4th vehicle. At this point the rest of the train is hidden around the curve, but there will be at least one more driving vehicle present. I can't post the photo on here because I don't know whose copyright it is. I possibly found it on Facebook, but I can assure you that at least one Cl 123, TS, was in all over Blue. Paul J. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
45125 Posted May 6, 2018 Share Posted May 6, 2018 I am not convinced because there isnt really any yellow above the cab window like there is on the front coach. After looking at the link to the picture in link 3 I concur, the yellow is on the 4th coach but I still think the 5th is a trailer of some description. The 5th coach appears to be a trailer as there isnt any engine gubbins (technical term) visible, just the battery boxes etc so could it be the middle coach of a 3 coach set and one of its power partners on the back?. It is a TSL. The western had some very odd combinations with the Inter City units. I worked on the class 123 units in later years and it was obvious that at least one or two of the vehicles were painted all blue at one time. Al Taylor. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRman Posted May 6, 2018 Share Posted May 6, 2018 The yellow is from the fourth coach, look how far the yellow goes around the front of a 123. If the fifth coach was a driving car I cannot see a double arrow badge. Yes, I agree; the wrap-around yellow on the previous DMS was what fooled me into thinking it was a class 104 in BSYP livery. The pic is just too fuzzy to make out the bogies properly. If they are B4 bogies then that would clinch it as a class 123 trailer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
caradoc Posted May 7, 2018 Share Posted May 7, 2018 This is a fascinating discussion, thanks to all who have contributed. I first saw Class 123 sets when I started spotting at Oxford in 1971, but don't recall ever seeing an all-blue vehicle (although of course the photo in the OP is from some years earlier). Agreeing that the all-blue vehicle is a Class 123, this raises some interesting questions; Why was it painted all-blue, given that the sets were classed as Inter-City stock, and was a complete set so treated ?; Was all works attention to these sets done at Swindon ? I was also unaware that Class 123 sets were split to allow 6-car trains to run, presumably there was not enough stock to simply run 8-car formations (some things never change !) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
45125 Posted May 7, 2018 Share Posted May 7, 2018 This is a fascinating discussion, thanks to all who have contributed. I first saw Class 123 sets when I started spotting at Oxford in 1971, but don't recall ever seeing an all-blue vehicle (although of course the photo in the OP is from some years earlier). Agreeing that the all-blue vehicle is a Class 123, this raises some interesting questions; Why was it painted all-blue, given that the sets were classed as Inter-City stock, and was a complete set so treated ?; Was all works attention to these sets done at Swindon ? I was also unaware that Class 123 sets were split to allow 6-car trains to run, presumably there was not enough stock to simply run 8-car formations (some things never change !) The 123s ran in some odd formations, with all sorts of odd combinations. If you look through photos on the RCTs site and search Google it will reveal some goodies. One of a right mix up at Bathampton with and extra DMSL and TSL added. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertcwp Posted May 7, 2018 Author Share Posted May 7, 2018 Here is a zoom in at 12,000 dpi: 123_Didcot_c1968_zoom by Robert Carroll, on Flickr Click to go to larger version. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Strathwood Posted May 10, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 10, 2018 Is the stray blue vehicle from one of the Class 120 sets also overhauled at Swindon and as some were sent out in all blue c1967-8? Come on you DMU sages lets settle this. Kevin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted May 10, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 10, 2018 Is the stray blue vehicle from one of the Class 120 sets also overhauled at Swindon and as some were sent out in all blue c1967-8? Come on you DMU sages lets settle this. Kevin Hi Kevin That was an early question I had but looking at the vehicle the window configuration appears to be toilet, door, 4 big windows, door, 4 big windows and a door. A Cross-country TRBS would be toilet 2 big windows, door, 4 big and one small window, door, large window, blank space (buffet), and a door. It also could have been labeled "Buffet" some were some were not. The Inter-city DMUs do not seem to be kept in strict unit formations as much as the rest of the WR DMU fleet was. I have seen several photos, in print, of mixed green and blue-grey coaches in the same four or three car formation. I have a photo , which I do not have the copyright to, of a seven Inter-city coaches and a Pressed Steel single car on a Paddington to Minehead summer Saturday train. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swindon 123 Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 (edited) Is the stray blue vehicle from one of the Class 120 sets also overhauled at Swindon and as some were sent out in all blue c1967-8? Come on you DMU sages lets settle this. Kevin No, the door/window configuration is wrong. Clive Mortimore beat me to it. But to just add a bit more to Clives statement, there were some Cl120 TS on the WR, but they had the same window/door configuration as the buffet, but without the blanked off windows of the buffet. Paul J. Edited May 10, 2018 by Swindon 123 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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