Ballast, ballast, ballast

[Virago496]

Hi everyone,

 

I'm well into my first ever proper layout and getting to the point where i'm thinking about ballasting, scattering etc. I have no idea of how much ballast I would need to do my whole layout and I wonder if anyone could help. When I look online questions about the cheaper way of ballasting always end up with folk telling you what the BEST ballast is. I'm trying to save money by buying the right amount so can anyone help me here? These are pictures of the layout:

Scarm says the total length of the track is 18 &1/2 meters the track is sitting on a 3mm foam underlay

There is more images and information on my blog: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/blog/2322-viragos-railway/

 

Thanks!

[Jeff Smith]

A little ballast goes a long way. I use Woodland Scenics which comes in bags (1/3 litre) or shakers (just under 1 litre). It's not expensive but I would start with a bag and see how far it goes. It's available in several colours and three grades, fine, medium and course. I use fine for 4mm. I have never laid ballast over foam so perhaps someone else could advise on glues and techniques.

[DCB]

I have never heard of ballast on underlay. Ballast is a bit of a pain as it amplifies the sound of trains and makes moving tracks a bit of a nightmare.  I put it a long way down the list when it comes to making a convincing model.   Decent underlay looks more realistic than 90% of modellers ballasting as they make such a mess, steam era layouts usually had absolutely straight ballast shoulders and neat black cinder paths beside the ballast, post steam ballast was heaped much higher in an untidy mound and modern image is ballast covered in weeds anyway.  Models tend to have scruffy ballast edges but nowhere near enough ballast for modern image, often it spills way down embankments but is mounded up between the tracks where there is double track.

 

Are you happy with the way the layout operates because I can't see any actual play value in that layout. It would be great as a model shop showcase for christmas time with Tomas the tank scuttling around with a couple of coaches on the figure of eight and Perky doing a bit of shunting on the inner but that's about it.    CJ Freezer did some great layouts in the Peco 60 plans for ****** Layouts series which would fit your board and allow some real railway like operation.

[Guest]

Although I now use Green Scenes ballast, I do recognise that Woodland Scenics ballast is a very popular choice. I'd be tempted to purchase one of the large bottles for about a tenner in your preferred grade/colour. Use a teaspoon to add the ballast only where needed. If you're brushing the ballast into place, wetting and then using a PVA/water solution, you will use quite a lot and that one bottle will probably not be enough. I tend to make things hard for myself (and because I dislike mess and getting the ballast all over the sleepers) so I use a fine-point glue bottle and add neat PVA around the sleepers. Working at about 6 inches at a time, I then sprinkle ballast directly onto the PVA. By stretching the cut-off foot of an old pair of tights over the hoover nozzle, you can actually reclaim a huge amount of ballast which goes straight back into the bottle once the hoover is switched off.

Painting around the sleepers then hoovering off, I reckon one large WS bottle would be enough. Any other method, looking at your plan, I'd budget for two. It's also no bad thing to have some left over for any touch-ups or repairs in the future.

 

[allan downes]

Hi Virago.

 

I recently ballasted a 6ft 6" x 3" O Gauge layout  using just short of a full bottle of Woodland Scenics ballast as seen above. 

 

I've took the liberty to put up a few  pictures of the ballasted track which illustrate just how far a bottle of ballast will go.

 

Hope it helps.

 

Cheers.

 

Allan.

 

[allan downes]

The Hobby Shop as advertised in this thread. Does anybody know if it's the reopening and renaming of the ' Hobby Box' that closed down some while ago ?

 

Cheers.

 

Allan.

Edited May 10, 2018 by allan downes

[Jeff Smith]

Whilst you did not publish your layout diagram for review and comment DavidCBroad made a good point that the outer figure of eight does not seem to be connected to the central part.....

 

Another thread (can't remember which) discussed the merits of using foam underlay. Someone mentioned that after some time it can disintegrate. Regarding ballasting over it, a thickish layer with the the traditionally used diluted PVA would be like a shell and could break if pressure is applied. I think it really needs a thin covering using a flexible adhesive painted on to the foam and the ballast gently sprinkled on - somewhat fiddly and time consuming between the sleepers but easy enough on the shoulders.

[The White Rabbit]

Re the original question, it's tricky to be precise as it's a bit of a piece of string question ... but our ballast bags (the same size as GreenScene, not sure about weight) are (nominally) 270g weight, fine grade and cover approximately nine feet (270cm) of OO track. 

[Virago496]

First of all, thank you all for the replies, Now I have an idea of the size of bottle and what it will cover. I'm going by what Dcc concepts advised in their instructional video about the underlay. Which is to put a thin layer of ballast on the shoulders of the underlay first and then ballast in  between the sleepers.

 

David and Jeff, This is my first idea for a layout and one of the ideas was to have the back of the layout raised (saw that in a youtube video and liked the look of it) 

I hope this shows that idea, then the inner loop is meant to be a little shunter running clockwise against a counter clockwise outer two loops. I didn't want these two to meet as the dc layout would not allow me to run two engines in opposite directions. Hope my description clarifies it a bit. The whole layout is probably full of errors but this being my first go I hope to build and learn. Your comments are definitely appreciated and will not fall on deaf ears. Don't be shy to add more comments, I'd welcome the input.

 

Thanks so far!

[Sir TophamHatt]

Take a look at Everard Junction on YouTube too.

He uses Medium ballast grade. I mixed fine/medium but wish I'd just stuck to medium.

 

I, the same as you, wanted to do it cheaply. But decided as there wasn't much ballast around that was cheaper, to just go the Woodland Scenics route. Bought 4 of the large tubs and I have about half of each left I think.

 

BEWARE OF POINTS.

Did one set of mine, then found the motor wouldn't throw the point as much. Broke up a fair bit of ballast and fixed it, but have to relay the ballast in that area now.

 

Worth the effort though.

 

Haven't tried hoovering up the last of the bits I did yesterday as I don't think my hoover, despite it being a small dyson, would be able to reclaim any - even if I empty out the dirt collecting bit first!

 

Everard Junction man uses a smaller hoover meant for cars and keyboards, which may proove better but I haven't researched anything into those yet.

[Right Away]

Whichever ballast you settle on, ensure point blade/stock rail contact areas are covered with a thin strip of tape to prevent the ingress of ballast adhesive. Be also wary of adhesive running beneath the tie bar which may not be evident at the time. If it does, soak up as much as possible with kitchen roll and/or flood it out with clean water from a dropper bottle.

 

For your first attempt, work on a spare piece of track to get a "feel" of the process.

 

Persevere, do not rush and take your time; ballasting can get laborious and you will be tempted to finish it as soon as possible - don't!

 

When admiring your work years afterwards, you will know the extra time taken was worthwhile.

[Virago496]

Let me just quickly update every one on this. I've put everything on hold, the layout has been removed from the room it was in and is awaiting a hoist so it can be hung in the garage. I made some schoolboy errors in the design of it all, the worst of which is a too steep decent on a bend which made the passenger carriages derail. After I have fixed my new storage system I will redesign the whole thing taking all your helpful advice into account. And Right away, thanks for your input, have already "wasted" two bits of old track in try-outs, like this:

 

 

Not planning on using this because its too course and the glue dries too wide, but it's a start. 

 

Keep you posted.