richscylla Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 (edited) Hi everyone! After a little assistance if possible! I've just spent a little time wiring up my first ever point motor. It's a SEEP PM1, and I've use the Guagemaster CDU. Everything is (I think) wired up right, I'm feeling proud, I flip the switch and nothing. Can anyone see anything obvious that I've done wrong? I have swapped the wires from the CDU to the power source over and that didn't help. Is there anyway I can test to see what is causing the issue. Please use short words when replying, when it comes to electrics I'm at a child's level of understanding!!Pictures below:Thanks in advance for any help offered!Rich Edited May 10, 2018 by richscylla Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady_Ava_Hay Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 I am looking at the main power source on the right, the one with the knob on top. What voltage is that? I was under the impression that a CDU needs 16volts AC but I don't use them myself. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
richscylla Posted May 10, 2018 Author Share Posted May 10, 2018 I am looking at the main power source on the right, the one with the knob on top. What voltage is that? I was under the impression that a CDU needs 16volts AC but I don't use them myself Yes - that's right. It's an old Hornby controller with a 16v AC output. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
richscylla Posted May 10, 2018 Author Share Posted May 10, 2018 Yes - that's right. It's an old Hornby controller with a 16v AC output. Wait... it's a 15v AC output. Could that be the issue? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady_Ava_Hay Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 Wait... it's a 15v AC output. Could that be the issue? I think the problem is related to the power source you are using. CD units need a lot of power to recharge in an acceptable time and indeed to charge the capacitors at all. There should be an output power rating on the Hornby controller's label. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
richscylla Posted May 10, 2018 Author Share Posted May 10, 2018 Yeah it's the power output. I have removed the CDU and everything works properly. So I need to get a new power source. Thinking of a laptop charger, but will that be too powerful to use for lighting and signals on my layout?Thanks, Rich Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady_Ava_Hay Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 Yeah it's the power output. I have removed the CDU and everything works properly. So I need to get a new power source. Thinking of a laptop charger, but will that be too powerful to use for lighting and signals on my layout? Thanks, Rich Gaugemaster do a wallwart that will do the job. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
richscylla Posted May 10, 2018 Author Share Posted May 10, 2018 (edited) Gaugemaster do a wallwart that will do the job. Thanks!! Edited May 10, 2018 by richscylla Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokebox Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 Yeah it's the power output. I have removed the CDU and everything works properly. So I need to get a new power source. Thinking of a laptop charger, but will that be too powerful to use for lighting and signals on my layout? Thanks, Rich I'm not convinced that the power supply is at fault. The point motors usually take a lot more power than a CDU. That's the idea of a CDU, to take a little bit of power over a longer time and then discharge the stored power very quickly to operate the point reliably. I would suspect the CDU is at fault. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium kevinlms Posted May 10, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 10, 2018 I'm not convinced that the power supply is at fault. The point motors usually take a lot more power than a CDU. That's the idea of a CDU, to take a little bit of power over a longer time and then discharge the stored power very quickly to operate the point reliably. I would suspect the CDU is at fault. Possibly the voltage input is a little low. According to the instructions an input of 16 - 25 volts AC is required. http://www.gaugemaster.com/instructions/cdu.pdf OP, do you have a multimeter, to test what is going on? A cheap one is all that's required for this task. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
richscylla Posted May 10, 2018 Author Share Posted May 10, 2018 I have gone out and picked up a guagemaster power supply with a 16v AC output and I'm finding the same issue. The point still throws (just about) without the CDU, but when I add the CDU into the circuit it doesn't work at all. Is there anyway to test the CDU? I don't have a multimeter, but if I did, how would I test that it's working correctly? Thanks, Rich Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
richscylla Posted May 10, 2018 Author Share Posted May 10, 2018 My other thought is perhaps, I'm not giving it time to charge initially. Could that be an issue? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold BoD Posted May 10, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 10, 2018 What type of switch is it? CDUs require just momentary contact. Try removing the switch from the circuit and (carefully) throwing the point by touching the feed wire against the bare ends of the green wires Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
richscylla Posted May 10, 2018 Author Share Posted May 10, 2018 Is there damage to the soldering towards the top right? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
richscylla Posted May 10, 2018 Author Share Posted May 10, 2018 What type of switch is it? CDUs require just momentary contact. Try removing the switch from the circuit and (carefully) throwing the point by touching the feed wire against the bare ends of the green wires It's a momentary contact switch. I will try taking the switch out of the circuit and trying that though Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokebox Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 (edited) That track looks to be blown Aka burnt out. You could try soldering a wire across the bad part to see if it works but may just blow again. Beware of flying fragments if it fails. Edited May 10, 2018 by smokebox Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
richscylla Posted May 10, 2018 Author Share Posted May 10, 2018 What could have caused this? Especially if the voltage was too low? That track looks to be blown Aka burnt out. You could try soldering a wire across the bad part to see if it works but may just blow again. Beware of flying fragments if it fails. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokebox Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 Possibly a faulty component, incorrect wiring or a short circuit being caused accidentally by contact with a metal object. Various possible causes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
richscylla Posted May 10, 2018 Author Share Posted May 10, 2018 Possibly a faulty component, incorrect wiring or a short circuit being caused accidentally by contact with a metal object. Various possible causes. So probably my fault rather than an issue with the CDU. I'll grab another one - do people recommend the Peco one over the Gaugemaster one? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokebox Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 The Gaugemaster one is a good unit. I would contact them and see if they are willing to test and repair, though it might not be a cost effective solution considering postal charges. They are normally very good at looking after their customers. The Peco one is often said to be underpowered. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
richscylla Posted May 10, 2018 Author Share Posted May 10, 2018 The Gaugemaster one is a good unit. I would contact them and see if they are willing to test and repair, though it might not be a cost effective solution considering postal charges. They are normally very good at looking after their customers. The Peco one is often said to be underpowered. That track looks to be blown Aka burnt out. You could try soldering a wire across the bad part to see if it works but may just blow again. Beware of flying fragments if it fails. I have used a little solder to go over the blown track - and it works!! Thanks everyone for their help! One last question - I have a second SEEP PM1 - how do I connect that to the circuit I have? Assume I don't need a second CDU? Rich 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold BoD Posted May 10, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 10, 2018 Use the same layout for wires between the switch and point motor as you have for the first one. Then wire this in parallel with the existing one. Take the yellow lead from the second motor and connect it either to the yellow lead where it solders onto the first point motor or into the same screw terminal on the CDU. The red feed into the back of the switch could be soldered to the red feed on the other switch or the same screw terminal as the red feed on the CDU. This works no matter how many Point motors you have as long as you only fire one at a time and pause slightly between each one. Wiring in 'piggy back' with just one wire to the switches from the CDU and one common return (your yellow) is neater than having multiple cables running out from the CDU. I hope you understand from my description. If not I can do a diagram. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
richscylla Posted May 10, 2018 Author Share Posted May 10, 2018 Use the same layout for wires between the switch and point motor as you have for the first one. Then wire this in parallel with the existing one. Take the yellow lead from the second motor and connect it either to the yellow lead where it solders onto the first point motor or into the same screw terminal on the CDU. The red feed into the back of the switch could be soldered to the red feed on the other switch or the same screw terminal as the red feed on the CDU. This works no matter how many Point motors you have as long as you only fire one at a time and pause slightly between each one. Wiring in 'piggy back' with just one wire to the switches from the CDU and one common return (your yellow) is neater than having multiple cables running out from the CDU. I hope you understand from my description. If not I can do a diagram. Thanks BoD. I think I do - but a diagram would be super useful if it's not too much trouble. Rich Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free At Last Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 There is a diagram for wiring multiple point motors on this page http://www.brian-lambert.co.uk/Electrical.html#Motor Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold BoD Posted May 10, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 10, 2018 There is a diagram for wiring multiple point motors on this page http://www.brian-lambert.co.uk/Electrical.html#Motor That's great Pete, better than anything I could have done. Rich, it is the diagram with a photo of the switch and CDU Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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