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GTR Timetable Change 2018




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#1 sem34090

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Posted 10 May 2018 - 12:32

Your thoughts!

 

I will disclose mine later once the anguish has subsided...





#2 sem34090

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Posted 10 May 2018 - 22:38

I am not especially happy about the changes to the timetable in my area, several services having been dropped without adequate replacement.

 

Pray, someone, tell me how a three coach working can take its current (full, but not standing only) capacity and that of a full (and standing only) other three coach working whilst also incorporating an extra station stop?

 

In simple terms, my morning train has subsumed the role of both itself and a later train which has been dropped. I see no indication that the first working is to featured increased capacity, so I would appreciate someone telling me how a 158/9 and 313/2's worth of passengers are supposed to fit on a single 158/9 and remain able to breath. And also how they will be able to breath when, as inevitably often happens, the 158/9 is replaced by a 150/0 or a 150/2?

 

If, like myself, you cannot solve the above problem then you are clearly not part of the management who created this farce. If you can then you are something quite amazing!

 

That said, does this mean 5-car HST's may appear on the coast?! If so, then I am a bit happier...



#3 uax6

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Posted 11 May 2018 - 06:00

But its not just you, its happening all over the franchise. We're quite lucky up at the top end of their network, but the timings that have suggested have lead to all sorts of issues, from two trains being on a single line at the same time, to level crossings being down for about 10 mins. They printed pocket timetables and handed them out to punters and missed off the first and last trains!

 

It does appear that it is a somewhat 'guess' at seeing what they can run and get away with, rather than a properly thought out thing. I am expecting an interim timetable to be introduced when it is realised that it doesn't work properly, and then it will be shaken up again in December at the second attempt to timetable the franchise....

 

Andy G


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#4 Fenman

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Posted 11 May 2018 - 06:13

... We're quite lucky up at the top end of their network ...


Really? My bit of The Fenline isn’t seeing any of the improvements which were *promised* years ago (and which are overdue contractual commitments) - trains lengthened from 4 cars to 8, frequency increased from hourly to half-hourly.

Instead, our exciting new timetable now involves every train taking about a quarter of an hour longer to get from West Norfolk (a place which is already pretty cut off and marginalised) to London.

We seem to be moving inexorably back to the timings British Rail had before the line was electrified and service was by elderly 105s or 37s hauling Mk2s.

It’s a deeply depressing, retrograde timetable for those of us north of Ely. It feels to me as if someone has either been lying through their teeth, or as if there is breathtaking incompetence. I’m struggling to see an alternative.

Still, doubtless things are better for some.

Paul
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#5 uax6

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Posted 11 May 2018 - 07:12

I was meaning at least the trains aren't being shortened or knocked on the head. Yes things aren't what was promised, but there are glimmers of hope in the timetable, as the one sees the introduction of selective door opening on the 8 cars in the morning at Watlington (which seems a strange choice, Littleport has much more of a demand).

 

The eco-surveys for the platform extensions are happening this month, which brings hope that they might be built soon, although they are running about a year behind (something that Cambs CC has had a hand in, as it seems to have its own ideas about what should be happening, and has been less than helpful apparently).

 

If only they would go back to locos and coaches, we'd have longer trains with seats that were comfortable, and vans that you could put the bikes in, (Why oh why is the folding bikes only in rush hour rule not enforced?), rather than the ironing boards that get offered in the 387's, or worse still the planks of wood in the 700's (which at least we are not going to be inflected on us yet.)

 

I very much doubt that the half hourly service outside peak times will appear, unless the single lines get doubled, and then I can wave good bye to my job....

 

From the inside of the fence, there are so many things that I've discovered about this timetable change that I can't discuss, but put it this way, they tend to point to both of your summing ups!

 

Andy G


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#6 chrisf

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Posted 11 May 2018 - 07:28

I think that the number of prongs south of the river on Thameslink will cause a lot of problems.  The scope for trains presenting at Blackfriars out of turn will increase immeasurably.

 

Chris


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#7 uax6

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Posted 11 May 2018 - 07:35

What I'm looking forward to finding out more is how the cumulative delays that the thameslink2k services are going to accrue are going to affect the normal trains, its been quite interesting to see that most afternoon normal trains have been running 5 or so minutes late since the basic thameslink 2k service was introduced, but that's with them 'dumped' into the old t-table, will the new one make these delays disappear?

 

Andy G


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#8 John M Upton

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Posted 13 May 2018 - 17:19

I've been studying the three different timetable leaflets that cover my part of the GTR Empire and I foresee there are going to have be some adjustments for the next timetable change in December especially Sunday's where if you are travelling to Gatwick Airport and/to London you now attach to the back of the Bognor stopper and face an all stops run up the valley instead of the current much faster run via the coast and Haywards Heath.
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#9 sem34090

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Posted 13 May 2018 - 18:04

I was doing the same on the soon-to-be-put-back morning GWR service into Brighton on Friday...

No trains from Barnham between 07:13 and 07:52 was not going down at all well. There's a group who get on there every morning who were complaining profusely about it...



#10 John M Upton

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Posted 13 May 2018 - 21:21

They have retimed the Littlehampton to Brighton all stops trains in the morning as well which is apparently going to cause timing problems for the school at East Worthing whilst the first train of the morning from Havant and Chichester to Victoria via Hove and Gatwick has disappeared completely.

There are some very odd things going on with this new timetable!
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#11 uax6

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Posted 16 May 2018 - 10:27

This has appeared http://www.bbc.co.uk...ngland-44125502, and I have to say that I think for once the RMT is correct.

 

 

Andy g


Edited by uax6, 16 May 2018 - 10:28 .

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#12 jim.snowdon

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Posted 16 May 2018 - 19:07

This has appeared http://www.bbc.co.uk...ngland-44125502, and I have to say that I think for once the RMT is correct.
 
 
Andy g

I think we have already seen enough to realise that the RMT is anti-anything that represents a change other than a return to the days of the nationalised railway pre-Beeching. They aren't there to run the railways, nor are the railways run for their exclusive benefit.

If the result of the timetable change, remembering that it is Network Rail's timetable, is that services run more reliably by not being run to inadequate margins then that is an overall improvement.

Jim

#13 uax6

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 05:34

I think we have already seen enough to realise that the RMT is anti-anything that represents a change other than a return to the days of the nationalised railway pre-Beeching. They aren't there to run the railways, nor are the railways run for their exclusive benefit.

If the result of the timetable change, remembering that it is Network Rail's timetable, is that services run more reliably by not being run to inadequate margins then that is an overall improvement.

Jim

 

You may think its NR's timetable, but looking at the errors in it, I wonder how much input they have in it. The GTR bit here is being dealt with only by GTR from what I can see, no correspondence has even reached the NR timetable planners.

 

I don't agree with your first paragraph, yes they are outspoken on various things, which to outsiders seem odd things to call for, but the railway isn't a normal business by any stretch of the imagination, and frankly some of the ideas that get proposed are down right dangerous. But you have to remember the whole point of a trade union is to fight for workers rights, and they may do it by routes that I don't agree with, but at least they are doing something.

 

Andy G


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#14 John M Upton

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Posted 18 May 2018 - 08:02

If you are one of our hardy dedicated little band of commuters who take the very first train out of Bognor Regis in the morning for the first London train from Barnham, check carefully as a hole has just been discovered in the new timetable and my colleague working the first Bognor this morning has been asked to issue a warning of the impending problem.

It's to be fixed in the December timetable change apparently.
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#15 sem34090

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Posted 18 May 2018 - 08:27

I'm not up that early, but will bear that in mind John. I don't come out of Bognor much at the moment either, but useful to remember for future reference.

 

In what sense is there a hole?



#16 Fenman

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Posted 20 May 2018 - 16:54

If this news report is to be believed, that's a rather depressing start to the new GTR timetable.

 

Paul


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#17 scouser

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Posted 20 May 2018 - 17:45

The BBC is carrying the same story.
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#18 Dunsignalling

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Posted 20 May 2018 - 18:30

Gives the impression they are out of their depth (or rapidly heading that way) and desperately trying find a Plan B having realised that the wit needed to implement Plan A drastically exceeds that required to dream it up.

 

Fewer trains, with they hope, the same number of "customers" crammed into half the coaches until they get on top of it...…….

 

John


Edited by Dunsignalling, 21 May 2018 - 00:18 .

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#19 Dunsignalling

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Posted 20 May 2018 - 18:43

 

That said, does this mean 5-car HST's may appear on the coast?! If so, then I am a bit happier...

 

Don't hold your breath.

 

Point one: GW's GTis are only formed 2+4; the 5-car sets are for Scotrail.

 

Point two: GW so far only have one converted set, which is running out of Laira on an in-service crew training/familiarisation diagram at present (or was when I last looked). 

 

Point three: when the rest of the first tranche arrive, they are destined for services between Penzance and Plymouth, plus later, when they have all of them, Taunton and Swansea.

 

John


Edited by Dunsignalling, 21 May 2018 - 00:14 .

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#20 Claude_Dreyfus

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Posted 21 May 2018 - 09:34

I had some trepidation this morning going to the station, but my usual train was running (the departure time has not changed following the new timetable launch), and was on time. Arrival at London Bridge was a few minutes behind, but nothing too dramatic. I was fortunate, but it goes to show that not everything was screwed up. Proof of the pudding however will be tonight.

Just a small point. Mick Cash is going on about 'it is our members dealing with the anger at the sharp end, not the well-paid top brass...' Well, we saw Angie Doll - the Head of Service Quality for Southern - on the platform at Three Bridges; assisting with enquiries (and clearly identified through a tabard, so not trying to hide). So at least some of the senior management are visible, as opposed to a certain Mr Cash who seems far more interested in the same old rent-a-quote.

Time will tell how this reorganisation will work...but we all knew there would be teething troubles.
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#21 Zomboid

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Posted 21 May 2018 - 09:55

RMT also claiming that this"should spell the end of privatisation". Not sure I can see the link.

And whilst there are undeniably losers in this new timetable, there must also be places where there are more/ longer trains.
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#22 pete_mcfarlane

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Posted 21 May 2018 - 10:26

I get the impression that this will be presented as a national disaster for the 2 or 3 days it takes for the minor teething troubles with the new timetable to be ironed out. 


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#23 njee20

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Posted 21 May 2018 - 10:39

I share a train with Claude above, so theoretically no impact in the morning, although there's now an additional service running direct to London Bridge, which is nice. Coming home it looks worse on paper - timetabled to leave 15 minutes later which is a pain, but then the previous service was always c10 minutes late, so if the new 18.03 runs to time then I'll be happy. There's a new 17.03 too, which could be useful for those early getaways.

 

Overall I'm a bit meh. We shall see.


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#24 phil-b259

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Posted 21 May 2018 - 13:36

One thing that is obvious from the situation on the operating floor at Three Bridges is that the signallers are struggling to cope with all the changes.

Contrary to what the media may say about fancy signalling / digital railway crap, this box which controls the entire BML south of Norbury / Anerly uses panels of the entrance - exit type (NX to those in the trade) with NO AUTOMATIC ROUTE SETTING FACILITY even at busy places like East Croydon.

Given virtually every single service has a new headcode and timings (signallers get 'used to' timetables just as much as commuters - it's tough to keep on top of things when all you constantly have to reference reams of A4 paperwork to work out what needs to go where for every train. Add in the mix point failures or maintenance staff trying to gain access to the tracks then it's clear things are not as simple as many like to pretend.

It will take weeks for signallers to get used to the new timetable and for their performance to get back to what it was previously.


Edited by phil-b259, 21 May 2018 - 16:11 .

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#25 scouser

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Posted 21 May 2018 - 13:45

Am I the only one that finds so many people on here have a high level of disdain for the people who operate the trains they depend on?
One commuter verbally attacked a station worker during the Southern strikes. Had the insulted person belonged to a minority group this would have been a hate crime!
Obviously workers don't count. I must admit here that I am not a very important commuter, just somebody who respects the workers that operate our transport systems.
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