New Baseboard Materials/Techniques?

[trisonic]

I'm toying with a the idea of a small urban (essentially switching) layout to get my licks back up to speed.

If possible I want to avoid the "frame plus plywood" route in lieu of something lighter (and maybe easier).

I need some ideas. Has anyone a tale of trying something new?

 

Many thanks, Pete.

[Kenton]

Not new - an ironing board, a boxfile, a snackbox, ... any container. also not new foamboard, cardboard, door?

See Calcot Burtle and Dunbraken and many others on RMWeb

[Allegheny1600]

Hi Pete,

Not new at all,

but a couple of years ago i replaced all the internal doors (the lightweight egg carton 70's and 80's type!) in a friends house for them. Hoarder that i am, i kept the old doors for a bit and found various uses for them: lining the floor in my old trailer, getting more rubbish in a skip and so on!

However one use was to cut one of these doors in half lengthwise - this gave me a lightweight board of 6'3" by 18"!!!

Perfect for a good switching layout or big inglenook (which i built!) - i even took it away in the caravan once!!!!!!

Idea for thought, perhaps?

TTFN,

John E.

[Crosland]

I'm toying with a the idea of a small urban (essentially switching) layout to get my licks back up to speed.

If possible I want to avoid the "frame plus plywood" route in lieu of something lighter (and maybe easier).

I need some ideas. Has anyone a tale of trying something new?

 

Many thanks, Pete.

My carpentry skills are limited and I find it difficult to build open frame baseboards that are square and join together reliably. For my new N gauge layout I'm building "upside down" and building up from sheets of 3mm MDF. A 2'x4' sheet is aboout £4 at Wickes. This gives me uniform bases to make nice square frames. The strength is (will be) in the frames, however, not the MDF. Eventually, access holes will be cut in the bottom to allow maintenance of wiring, etc.

 

For the frames I've experimented with a sandwich of 25mm polystyrene between 2 layers of 3.6mm ply, about 3" deep by however long or wide the baseboard is. The ends have timber in place of the polystyrene to take screws. These are light and stiff (in two directions along their length) but I've now found that they twist quite easily. Lifting one corner of the baseboard causes it to bend before another corner leaves the ground. Quite a bit of bracing is needed to stiffen things up which adds weight.

 

My most recent frames are 3" panels of 3mm mdf made into "box girders" with timber strips along each edge. These are lighter and stiffer than the same size timber only frame. Lifting one corner very quickly lifts the whole baseboard with little twisting and little internal bracing is needed.

 

I then use a hot melt glue gun to add internal cross members to which are atteched risers to hold the track bed. These are made from whatever offcuts of 3mm MDF or ply I have lying around.

 

I'll try and upload some photos if anyone is interested.

 

See also http://www.sprok01.plus.com/baseboard/base02.html and http://www.fadmrc.hampshire.org.uk/b-board.html for other ideas.

 

Andrew Crosland

[eotw]

This article http://carendt.us/clinic/peekpike/index.html has a really lightweight small baseboard

 

Rupert

[Crosland]

This article http://carendt.us/clinic/peekpike/index.html has a really lightweight small baseboard

 

Rupert

Maybe it was too light weight!

 

The later pictures clearly show timber sides, rather than the foamboard in the first picture.

 

Andrew Crosland

[eotw]

Maybe it was too light weight!

 

The later pictures clearly show timber sides, rather than the foamboard in the first picture.

 

Actually Carl explained the wooden side rails in the article.

 

(Note that I used wooden lattice, 1.5 inches wide, for my side rails. This is because I plan to take Peek's Pike with me to make presentations around the country, and I need extra strength during transport. For normal home use, you can use all-foamcore rails, which are much lighter.)

[trisonic]

Thank you for some really interesting ideas!

I'm a Brit living in the 'States and having lived a travelling life since the seventies (I'm a musician) I'm a bit out of touch...........

 

Thanks, again, Pete.

[tebee]

I've used the hard blue foam insulation material with a fair amount of success.

 

If you use the fairly thick stuff say 35 or 40 mm you could probably build a small portable line out of it without using any bracing.

 

It's not without it's problems, track needs to be stuck down, not pinned and mounting point motors can be problematical, but the ease of using it has won me over.

[trisonic]

I've used the hard blue foam insulation material with a fair amount of success.

 

If you use the fairly thick stuff say 35 or 40 mm you could probably build a small portable line out of it without using any bracing.

 

It's not without it's problems, track needs to be stuck down, not pinned and mounting point motors can be problematical, but the ease of using it has won me over.

I thought of that - how would you join them end to end though?

 

I think my point has been that this layout may well be short lived and in any event I've always felt that baseboards have been traditionally over built (I hope my brother doesn't read this - one of his you can walk over, which I'm not planning to do......

 

Best, Pete.

 

 

 

[Etched Pixels]

I'm toying with a the idea of a small urban (essentially switching) layout to get my licks back up to speed.

If possible I want to avoid the "frame plus plywood" route in lieu of something lighter (and maybe easier).

I need some ideas. Has anyone a tale of trying something new?

 

Many thanks, Pete.

 

The last board I bought was a cheap lightweight shelf thing from Ikea. It's wooden top bottom and edge framing around some kind of low grade chipboard filler. I've not investigated it internally yet but it looks like point control and the like would need to be above the baseboard level (not a big problem as I'm a wire in tube fan for microlayouts). Also as its surfaced top/bottom with the bracing symettrical it does look like you could put one layout on each side 8)

 

Carpentry was never my strong point so I tend to look for random off the shelf woodwork or boxes for small projects.

[Stubby47]

Pete,

 

Thee has been a recent trend ( on here at least) to use some form of fixed box as both baseboard and protective cover - see Marc Smith's Bracty Bridge. Could you use a discarded music equipment case as a basis for a layout ? I'm sure they come in all shape & sizes, some with built in wheels, and are built solid to take the strain of travelling.

 

Stu

[Ressaldar]

Hi Pete,

 

At the newly formed Wirral O Gauge Group when designing our new 40' x 16' layout, which will have to be cleared away at the end of each meeting (due to the fact that we now meet in a local primary school), and lightness was to be the rule, decided to go for 75 thick Styrofoam Floormate and using 9mm ply sides and 18mm ends and using a solvent free 'No Nails' type of adhesive. We have now completed the board construction, save for the blocks for the hinge connections on the sides and have started on the trestle legs.

 

The boards themselves are extremely robust and the Group members are really pleased with their efforts to date.

 

regards

 

Mike

 

 

 

 

 

[Trebor]

Mike,

 

These look fantastic, I do though have a few questions if I may.

 

(1) where did you get the blue foam ?

I cannot seem to be able to source it locally via the usual diy/trade outlets, can you help?

 

(2) what depth are the sides and ends, clearly these are critical to the overall stability of the completed boards.

 

Oh and did I say they look fantastic.

[Ressaldar]

Hi Trebor,

 

Glad you like them, we certainly do!

 

The Styrofoam was purchased from Warren Insulation Ltd, (www.warren.co.uk) they have a network of distribution points around the country. The sheet size is 2.500 x 600 and comes in packs of five sheets. The ply sides are 9mm x 200 deep and the ends are 18mm x 175 deep, simply pinned and glued together, at the same time that the Styrofoam is included. We had the ply - birch, cut to size by the supplier - a 'house speciality' and the extra cost is certainly recovered in the speed of assembly. The end boards presented a slight problem in as much as the ends of the 18mm ends had to be 'shot' to fit - see photos.

 

Although the section drawing shows a ply surface to the Styrofoam, it has been decided that it is not required, the cork will be laid only under the track, allowing for the ballast shoulders to be put on. There will be no permanent scenery attached to the boards due to the constant putting up and taking dowm, but scenery modules will be made which can be placed, clipped on etc for exhibition purposes. The 'bed' will be painted and flocked.

 

I hope that this helps.

 

regards

 

Mike

 

shooting the ends of the 18mm end pieces - sorry about the distortion, it's not on the original!!

 

plan and section of 'straight' baseboard

 

overall trackplan

[trisonic]

Even more great ideas (with details) - we're getting somewhere! As my planned effort will reside in my basement and not be moved significantly (until I take it apart again) I really want to avoid ply - I want it lightweight for two reasons, ease of build for one man (who's getting on a bit) and it will be over more of my stuff in storage like guitar cases etc.

To someone who asked - I will not build in a Stratocaster case (even though I must have a dozen of them).

Thanks, again, Pete.

[number6]

Mike - super looking boards - still a degree of woodworking skills required though - I know my version would never be as neat. Pempoul by Gordon and Maggie Gravett is apparently built on a similar construction [?] I was wondering only the other day if there are any images of its build anywhere. I am also planning to use a method like this and have also built a couple of boards using foamboard, PVA and lots of cross bracing - still needs a ply or wood outer casing to protect it from knocks but definitely reduces the cut twice - measure thrice technique I find I have with woodwork...

 

trisonic - welcome back to the fold!

[Crosland]

Mike,

 

These look fantastic, I do though have a few questions if I may.

 

(1) where did you get the blue foam ?

 

 

You can get Cellotex in varying sizes/thicknesses and also pink Knauf Spaceboard in Wickes. The letter is about £20 for five sheets 1200 x 500mm or thereaboouts.

 

Andrew Crosland

[Ressaldar]

Hi Andrew,

 

yes, there are alternatives, but they tend to be of varying quality in as much as some tend to powder and also the compressive strength needs to be watched. The 75 thick Styrofoam Floormate is around £11.50 per sheet - 2.500 x 600, but you might have to buy it in packs of five sheets.

 

We used a saw to cut the Styrofoam to shape, having scribed the cut line using a ply template that we had cut as part of the main ply order.

 

 

end board construction showing template on top of Styrofoam, ready to be removed when the final side is attached. Again, appologies for the distortion, seems to be happening since the #upgrade'

 

regards

 

Mike

[Trebor]

You can get Cellotex in varying sizes/thicknesses and also pink Knauf Spaceboard in Wickes. The letter is about £20 for five sheets 1200 x 500mm or thereaboouts.

 

Andrew Crosland

 

 

Thanks for that Andrew,

I know about the Cellotex and Knuaf spaceboard, the samples I looked at did not really meet expectations, the hard blue stuff is the way forward.

[scanman]

I've been using Knauf floormate for some time now. I started off with 75mm but am now down to 20mm. I do frame it in 6mm ply tho (got to protect the pm's somehow!)

 

here in UK it is available in the larger DIY stores - at a price & fixed thickness. I use a firm called Hampshire Insulation who will cut it to any thickness I require above 5mm. It's cUt with an industrial hot wire cutter and doesn't work too well below this. Excellent stuff, cuts like a dream. Use cork as atrackbase glued down with Copydex then Pva for the track, temporarily pinned. PM's are something of an issue - you cannot screw them down so I glue a pad of 3-ply & screw to that.

 

If you have a permanent shelf and can get away with a single board no probs. It doesn't warp shrink or affected by damp. See it in action on Souht Hall Yard in the 2010 Challenge section. I will be updating shortly about fixing PMs so this is a taster!

 

Regs

scanman

[trisonic]

Scanman! Have you started your update yet?

 

Best, Pete.

[shortliner]

Scanman! Have you started your update yet?

 

Best, Pete.

 

Pete - you need to talk to Prof Klyzlr - about "Brooklyn-3am" and "Chicago Fork" - probably as light as you will get anywhere. I use all-glued and clamped, thin pine stripwood, edges glued to L-shape section, topped with 5 mm MDF and cross braced at 12" intervals. I'm no carp4enter, but even I can use a mitre box/mitre saw and rightanle clamps with 30-minute polyurethane wood glue

[trisonic]

Ha! Jack, I think the idea came from Prof. Klyser in the first place (to me anyway).

As a group I think model railroad guys over - engineer baseboards; don't get me wrong, if they are on an exhibition circuit you're going to need to but you don't need a base structure at home that you could dance a tango with your Missus on.....

 

I want to try the foamboard/lightweight ply edging for the On30 one, next - thing is there's foamboard and then there's foamboard.......and then there's the different form of cross-bracing etc.

 

Later, Jack, my man.

 

Best, Pete.

[shortliner]

Pete - there is a sheet material in the USA called Gatorboard, which I have heard is a good baseboard material - don't think it is available in UK though - might be worth a look! I think it can be hot-glued, and may work on edge for the frame - we did an article on foamcore ( or light weight material)for base boards in an early MTI - I'll have a dig but I can't scan it until I get the big 'puter back! Somewhere I also have an article by Keith Harcourt on using KappaBoard which I'll need to hunt for if you want it

 

Edit to add a couple of quotes

 

Keith Harcourt, Crowbridge, E. Sussex

" The Kappaboard layout started life twenty years ago as an experimental flat baseboard that was shamefully mistreated over a number of years. Leaking roofs and roasting lofts all did their worst but the baseboard stayed flat. It was at this point that I put some scenery on it, added a Ratio® station building, fencing and signal box and began to exhibit it seriously. The layout uses no wood and weighs in at a useful 6 kilos and that includes the lighting. The layout has appeared in Modelling Railways Illustrated, June 1996 and Railway Modeller, January 2000. "

 

 

 

> Subject: Foam core board

>

> Hello, all.

>

> The current issue of the British magazine 'Model Trains

> International' has an article on a small layout called Harris Yard

> (60 x 12 inches). I've already added the trackplan to my ever-

> growing collection, but what particularly intrigues is that the

> layout has no wood in its construction, being made entirely of 5mm

> foam core board (some of you may know it as Kappaboard or as Fome-

> Cor). Unfortunately, the article author doesn't say too much about

> the properties of the material

 

I've used Foamcore for my last two layouts and like it a lot. Unlike timber

which often warps with time this material seems to be very stable. Having

looked at the way that engineers build everything from bridges to aircraft

using lightweight rigid structures I'm convinced that the traditional model

railway baseboard with a sheet of heavy material supported by heavy lengths

of planed timber is an engineering nonsense as it's mostly supporting its

own weight. Apart from anything else, if you put a constant load on a

length of planed timber it will eventually warp. Far better surely to use

well developed engineering principles such as that of box girders to

construct rigid structures of far lighter weight and for this foamcore is

ideal.

 

I had a long chat with Keith Harcourt who built Harris Yard at an exhibition

recently where it was on show and a very fine little layout it is.

Keith is a real pioneer of this form of construction and I saw his original

"Kappaboard Layout" at a show a couple of years ago. It was this, together

with noticing that some theatrical set models built by the designer for a

play I had directed had survived several years of being tossed into the

backs of cupboards and generally abused, that convinced me to try this form

of construction and I must say I'm never going back.

I think Keith said he used a hot glue gun to construct Harris Yard which

enabled bracing pieces to be inserted and immediately glued firmly into

place. I've used ordinary woodworking PVA and, so long as everything is

held together using weights or clamps whilst the glue sets this produces a

very rigid bond. Some people recommend using carpet tacks to hold things

together but I found that the heads tended to dent the surface. For awkward

components I've had some success with the pins with little plastic clamps

used by model aircraft builders to hold balsa components whilst gluing them

together.

 

The great virtue of this material for microlayouts and dioramas is its

speed- with a sheet of foamcore, a steel rule, a pencil, a square, a craft

knife and a bottle of glue you can easily build a solid and usable baseboard

for a microlayout in a couple of hours and, as Keith says in his article in

MTI, you can use up every last scrap of material in added bracing so the

apparent cost of the material is probably less in the end than traditional

timber construction. For my current layout I have used timber framing as

it's a folding layout and I wanted something some solidity around the hinges

but if I was building it again I'd be tempted to build timber or plywood

units for the hinges and baseboard ends and do almost everything else with

foamcore as if you follow good engineering techniques of box girders etc

with this material the resulting structure is light but immensely strong.

 

The only down side with foamcore is that it will dent easily- just dropping

the small pair of pliers I was using for pinning track onto an unprotected

baseboard surface left a couple of large dents, but a layer of cork or

dense foam underlay will protect it. You probably do need to protect the

sides of a baseboard built with foamcore or they will get knocked about but

I've found that the very thin ply used by aircraft and ship modellers can be

cut easily with a blade - I use a Stanley knife- and laminated onto the

foamcore for this purpose but ordinary laminated card stock as sold in art

and craft shops would probably do the job almost as well . I've yet to

ballast my layout but the PVA holding the cork underlay to the foamcore

surface should seal it against the watered down PVA I intend to use to hold

the ballast in place. I've used ordinary water based household paint to

paint the surface of the foamcore and it doesn't seem to have come to any

harm so I would guess that anything that is OK on card or paper will be OK

with foamcore so long as you don't actually soak it.

The only thing to be aware of is that if you need to screw anything in place

such as switch machines or even ground throws the foamcore itself won't take

these with any strength but a small square of thin ply glued to the foamcore

surface will provide a good base.

 

Try it, I think you'll like it.

I would also strongly recommend a subscription to Model Trains International

for anyone interested in small layouts even on the other side of the

Atlantic as though it's a British publication many of the layouts featured

are of US prototypes and I think the editor Chris Ellis's philosophy is well

conveyed in the occasional subtitle of "layouts you can live with"

 

I hope this helps.

 

David