RMweb Gold chris p bacon Posted December 3, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 3, 2018 When buying an etched brass kit, it's mainly the brass sheet that you pay for, whether hand-drawn or CAD designed. Afraid not, from what I remember of Jidenco and how they're laid out the cost of the brass is approx 25% the other 75% covers the artwork*, packaging, postage and profit. * as the artwork was done some years ago, the cost of purchasing the range has to be taken into account ( from the accounts this was somewhere in the region of £2-3,000) It is indeed sad that the attempt to re-introduce the range foundered - for whatever the reason; we are the poorer for that. And some it seems are poorer than others. No excuse for keeping monies and not supplying. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cctransuk Posted December 3, 2018 Author Share Posted December 3, 2018 (edited) And some it seems are poorer than others. No excuse for keeping monies and not supplying. I entirely agree - and have been completey frank about my own negative experience. This is where paying by Paypal is a very wise choice. When repeated, polite requests for a refund in lieu of a promised kit were ignored, Paypal refunded my payment with no fuss whatsoever - including the payment for the kit that had been delivered! Simple precautions can eliminate the risk of non-delivery / no refund. Just my experience; I now hold no candle for the former recent retailer of this range of kits - but that does not make them bad kits that cannot be built into presentable models. Regards, John Isherwood. Edited December 3, 2018 by cctransuk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonhall Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 That they are, but when available* were at the price of a much better CAD designed and accurate kit. I realise you are a fan of the range, but to say that a fold up wagon that comes in the shape of a cross with a multitude of half etch lines near to the fold lines is a good kit is barking. * I say 'available' but what I mean is being able to order and the monies taken then silence with nothing received. The kits were of their time, i.e. drawn by hand right at the beginning of etched brass kits, they has a reputation, even then, of often being difficult to build and not very accurate, but at the time were the only route to that particular model. The CAD designers of 40 years later have not only the benefit of much better technology to design, but also have 40 years of everyone else's experience in designing and building etched kits, so will usually have seen and built enough kits to understand what works, and what doesn't. The difficulty in buying a range like Jidenco is that you are really stuck with the product range you bought - its not practical to go and modify the etch artwork without effectively starting again (effectively doubling the cost), and if you have he skill to do that, you probably would have started your own range, rather then bought one with a poor reputation. Of course to recoup the investment in Jidenco, they do need to actually sell stock at a profit, and have the customer coming back for more, something they have failed to achieve. Jon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Michael Edge Posted December 3, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 3, 2018 The etch is usually the most expensive single item in a kit but however it is the easiest part to supply. We now have a considerable business supplying etches for locos (not fully worked up kits) with drawings and little else - sometimes referred to as aids to scratchbuilding but there's usually a lot more than that. We also do the same with 2mm scale etches, many of which have been made up into very fine models. I did think that it was a very good move to make the Jidenco range available again in this form. Over the years (starting with the very first from Graham Beaumont) I've built many good models from them, not always easy, some much better than others. I think it was a pity that this attempt foundered, especially with the ill feeling generated by frankly bad business methods. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lofty1966 Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 Tried emailing Dart Castings direct. No response as yet. When I am in the UK in a couple of weeks they shall be receiving a phone call. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 Lofty You will need to speak with the person at Dart who is related/co-owner of Falcon. Just look through either this or the other thread Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lofty1966 Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 Lofty You will need to speak with the person at Dart who is related/co-owner of Falcon. Just look through either this or the other thread Hi Mr HI have followed this thread from the start. I have tried four Avenues of contact so far and received nothing back. Once I am in the UK , I shall be phoning and phoning until I get some "service" Very poor showing so far. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cctransuk Posted December 6, 2018 Author Share Posted December 6, 2018 Hi Mr H I have followed this thread from the start. I have tried four Avenues of contact so far and received nothing back. Once I am in the UK , I shall be phoning and phoning until I get some "service" Very poor showing so far. How did you pay? Paypal refunded me with no question - and I believe Visa offer a refund in the event of failure to supply. Regards, John Isherwood. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lofty1966 Posted December 7, 2018 Share Posted December 7, 2018 How did you pay? Paypal refunded me with no question - and I believe Visa offer a refund in the event of failure to supply. Regards, John Isherwood. Hi John.It was PayPal but as it's been so long they declined to help. I have however had an apologetic email from Nigel at Dart who has promised to look into it ! 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lofty1966 Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 Well it's now Dec 28th and I have not got my refund nor have I had any further communication from 'Nigel at Dart Castings. Very poor showing so far! Just sent a email to see what's happening! Probably not a lot! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lofty1966 Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 Finally received my refund and an apology! 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PenrithBeacon Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 All's well that ends well! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kandc_au Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 Finally received my refund and an apology! Lofty, Did you find out what is happening as far as the future holds for Brassworks??? Khris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lofty1966 Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 (edited) Lofty, Did you find out what is happening as far as the future holds for Brassworks??? Khris Hi Khris Here is the relevant part of the email from Nigel at Dart Castings Hope that gives an idea. Ian, Thank you for pointing out the problem. I’m sorry we let you down over this. Strictly speaking, Falcon hasn’t stopped trading, but we have stopped internet sales while we ‘regroup’. Samantha, my daughter-in-law, was bravely trying to run Falcon singlehandedly and together with her own family commitments was struggling. I have a full time job, as well as trying to run Dart Castings and wasn’t giving her the support she deserved. Furthermore, we were finding that we were ordering sheets of wagons (sometimes six on a sheet) to fulfil a single order. With so many kits in the range this was unsustainable. We therefore made the decision to cease production while we considered which kits were worth continuing to produce and re-tooling where necessary. WK116 is one of those that we would like to re-tool, partly because the tank-end castings are not of a quality that we want to go forward with. These kits were designed a good while ago and the market demands better now. But re-tooling is a lengthy process. Edited January 3, 2019 by lofty1966 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium polybear Posted January 3, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 3, 2019 It would make sense for them to run an order book for the less popular kits and only produce them once the required number of interested parties was achieved. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cctransuk Posted January 3, 2019 Author Share Posted January 3, 2019 It would make sense for them to run an order book for the less popular kits and only produce them once the required number of interested parties was achieved. I have contacted Nigel with just such a suggestion. Regards, John Isherwood. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 It would make sense for them to run an order book for the less popular kits and only produce them once the required number of interested parties was achieved. Or for the less popular kits just sell the etches with advertising them as an aid to scratch building, where the modeller sources the castings themselves 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Bucoops Posted January 3, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 3, 2019 I've already registered interest for some GE brake vans Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnarcher Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 Or for the less popular kits just sell the etches with advertising them as an aid to scratch building, where the modeller sources the castings themselves I agree, Worsley has been doing this for some time satisfactorily. They did at one time list etches-only for (some of?) the locomotive kits, it would be nice if that could re-appear some time, though they do seem to have a lot on the family plate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Michael Edge Posted January 3, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 3, 2019 Judging by our experience "etches only" would be easy to do and should be profitable - assuming the etches are sensibly organised. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Siberian Snooper Posted January 3, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 3, 2019 It would make sense for them to run an order book for the less popular kits and only produce them once the required number of interested parties was achieved. This is the way Alan Gibson Workshops, does their loco kits, you express an interest in the kit(s) you want and when the number approaches the requisite number Colin produces them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 This is the way Alan Gibson Workshops, does their loco kits, you express an interest in the kit(s) you want and when the number approaches the requisite number Colin produces them. This is for full kits and I guess the cost of the parts will be quite high, etches only may be a cheaper alternative. The other 2 issues may be 1 The cost of keeping stocks of a very large range 2 The design flaws in the original design/ art work, how cost effective will it be to redesign/draw these kits Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Michael Edge Posted January 4, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 4, 2019 The big problem (as told to me by Colin just after he took over) with the Gibson kits was that not only were the different locos spread across several etch tools but in some cases they weren't even with the same etchers! I have no idea what the Jidenco/Falcon etch tools look like but we stopped making this sort of mistake about 3 kits into our range and every kit now has its own tool. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kandc_au Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 The big problem (as told to me by Colin just after he took over) with the Gibson kits was that not only were the different locos spread across several etch tools but in some cases they weren't even with the same etchers! I have no idea what the Jidenco/Falcon etch tools look like but we stopped making this sort of mistake about 3 kits into our range and every kit now has its own tool. From the post that was posted by Lofty, I am assuming (I know I should NOT assume) that they have needed to get a sheet etched with 6 different wagons on it for 1 wagon. The way you have done it Michael, makes the most sense. all things kept together. Unfortunately for Falcon it is just another cost burden, if they take this route. Hope they can succeed. Khris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Michael Edge Posted January 5, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 5, 2019 I was referring specifically to the loco etches, wagons are a bit different being generally smaller - although the one wagon kit we do has its own tool. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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