Help please! Ideas for a wayside station.

[outcastjack]

Hello all I am after ideas for the track plan for an interwar GWR through station ideally on a double track line with a small goods yard of 2 or three roads.

 

My last layout had the track plan below and I would like something similar but I figured with the number of knowledgeable people on here there is no reason the next one can't be better!

[Flying Pig]

Here are a couple I found on signalbox.org that are not a million miles away from your previous layout

 

Wilmcote

 

Broadway

 

Note the use of a single slip to combine a crossover with trailing access to the goods yard, avoiding a facing point on the running line.

 

If you want to add a bay, a trailing point off the line the train will depart along is probably best. The arriving train can terminate in the main line platform and shunt across to the departure line and into the bay when empty. If you need to run round, a pair of trailing crossovers as at Broadway will suffice. No facing crossovers are necessary. Keep the bay separate from the goods loop as it makes signalling simpler and there will be wagons standing on the latter.

[DCB]

Broadway is a good plan, the full size station has recently been restored and reopened by the Glos Warks rly (GWR.)  It is quite a late plan the line being completed around 1908.  The are a couple of traps at he end of the sidings, but these were just stubs not headshunts and the shunting would have been along the mainline, the line was never particularly busy, just one real express per day the "Cornishman,"  The single slip and access to the goods shed loop  from both up and down lines was a common feature

I would avoid having a bay, it is very over used as in models and relatively rare in the full size except where it functioned for end loading esp of road carriages onto carriage trucks

[DCB]

A few more thoughts on through stations,  The Basic unit seemed to be two platforms, signal box, two trailing crossovers.   With this passenger trains could run through non stop, or stop and continue the same way, or stop and have the engine run round and go back the other way.   Also in some cases the Passenger train could set back onto the other line for a faster train to overtake.  (The cause of the Quintinshill disaster)

More normally it would be a goods backed onto the other line to allow an overtaking train to pass. This is seldom performed on models but was a regular feature of the steam railway.

When sidings were provided they could be beside the station, as at Goathland NYMR for instance or along from the station as at Broadway post #2.

 

Operation was on the basis of the goods had to pass the signal box for train out of section to be given to the signal box in the rear.  The train would then if appropriate set back into the sidings or more likely leave part of the train on the main line while the shunting was done. Often a two or three hour gap between trains made this a relatively straight forward operation.  The often modelled headshunt was a bit of a rarity down in the west and the resident yard shunter was pretty well unknown. Sometimes he did a bit of shunting, a bit of banking and a local passenger train in one session. 

 

The Railways ran to a timetable so one knew when the next train was due, which were scheduled to need a banker etc  so there was no need to keep the continuous run clear like we do on a model.  Equally there was no need for a bay platform for terminating or originating trains, Totnes branch station for the Dart Valley never had a Bay and neither did the Malmesbury branch junction (Little Somerford?)

 

The dreaded tension lock coupler gives big problems when trying to reverse in 00 so a lot of plans are designed with this limitation in mind rather than prototype operation.

 

I attach a drawing of some generic station plans.  Top is Chedworth MSWJR, Middle a bit like Foss Cross MSWJR and the bottom a bit Broadway GWR and a bit Withington MSWJR but with the yard the other end.    Bring the platform out to the back loop on 2 and you pretty much have Brent junction for Kingsbridge on the GW Main Line.

 

The GWR was different to almost all other railways in its use of 0-6-0 tank locos. Apart form a small number of dock tanks they were very much mixed traffic locos with balanced wheels for passenger work and almost all  had vacuum brake and a lot had steam heat for winter passenger work.  Most other railways used the 0-6-0 Tender loco as pick up freight power and 0-6-0 tanks generally as shunters, OK some like J 69 and Terriers were passenger locos, but while a Pannier may well have shunted Broadway Yard it would have not been resident there normally being the loco on the pick up goods which called there.

 

In fact more or less anything from a 14XX to a Castle could have turned up on a Local Goods to shunt Broadway, 57XX and 28XX included, almost anything except a 47XX or a King

Edited May 15, 2018 by DavidCBroad

[Zomboid]

As drawn, the goods shed on the top line would normally be shunted by horse or human power.

Actually I doubt the facilities would be divided by the main line as you've shown, a wayside goods yard would typically be all together (for ease of road as well as rail access) and served by trains in one direction only. A specific industry might be found on the other side and served by trains in that direction, but even then probably not on a switchback.

[Joseph_Pestell]

Hello all I am after ideas for the track plan for an interwar GWR through station ideally on a double track line with a small goods yard of 2 or three roads.

 

My last layout had the track plan below and I would like something similar but I figured with the number of knowledgeable people on here there is no reason the next one can't be better!

 

It all depends how much space you have available.

 

But I suggest that you try and borrow copies of the 4 OPC studies of GW stations. Loads of inspiration in there for you.

 

One that I particularly like is Moreton-in-Marsh which has convenient bridges at each end for scenic breaks.

 

In a similar space, you could portray the "might-have-been" through station at Uxbridge. There you could run not only GW locos but pretty much anything else on cross-London freight, excursions, etc.

 

The GW freight would probably still have been dealt with at Vine St but the LNW might well have had a small goods depot at Uxbridge in this scenario.

Edited May 15, 2018 by Joseph_Pestell

[Compound2632]

A few more thoughts on through stations,  The Basic unit seemed to be two platforms, signal box, two trailing crossovers.   

 

 

I think in general two crossovers is lavish, not basic, and would need to have some justification - such as terminating passenger trains?

 

Rather than the facing connection into the down sidings, I'd expect a single slip giving an up-to-down main crossover and a trailing connection to the up main. (But then I'm a Midland man.) You can still run round using the down siding but the move would block both running lines.

[roythebus]

It all depends how much space you have available.

 

But I suggest that you try and borrow copies of the 4 OPC studies of GW stations. Loads of inspiration in there for you.

 

One that I particularly like is Moreton-in-Marsh which has convenient bridges at each end for scenic breaks.

 

In a similar space, you could portray the "might-have-been" through station at Uxbridge. There you could run not only GW locos but pretty much anything else on cross-London freight, excursions, etc.

 

The GW freight would probably still have been dealt with at Vine St but the LNW might well have had a small goods depot at Uxbridge in this scenario.

 

There is no need for a distant on the bracket to enter the bay. A distant indicates the aspect of the next home signal. In the bay the next signal is the red light on the buffer stop. The shunt signal for entering the goods shed would be a yellow disc which would remain at "danger" for entering the goods shed, but proceed for moves onto the main line. the distant on the down line would be on the same post as the platform starter if that is also the section signal.

Edited May 15, 2018 by roythebus

[Compound2632]

I'd missed that the bay was signalled for terminating passenger trains. I am willing to stand corrected but it seems to me that that's a bit unusual. If there are terminating down passenger trains, wouldn't it be more usual that they would terminate at the down platform? The engine would then run round (via a second crossover) and either the train would depart immediately (which would require an FPL on the crossover) or pull across onto the up and set back into the up platform (ECS moves), or, if waiting for departure from the up platform would interfere with traffic, set back into a bay on the up side? 

 

Also, the goods shed on a kick-back siding would be awkward to work. They're usually either on a trailing siding or on a loop, accessible from either end.

Edited May 15, 2018 by Compound2632

[Flying Pig]

There's really no need to go into minute detail about the OP's last layout when he's already said that he would like something similar but better. There are a number of less than ideal features in the old plan, which is why it is preferable to go back to basics and look at the prototype.

[The Stationmaster]

There is no need for a distant on the bracket to enter the bay. A distant indicates the aspect of the next home signal. In the bay the next signal is the red light on the buffer stop. The shunt signal for entering the goods shed would be a yellow disc which would remain at "danger" for entering the goods shed, but proceed for moves onto the main line. the distant on the down line would be on the same post as the platform starter if that is also the section signal.

 

The GWR did not use yellow discs or stop signals with miniature yellow arms - ok for BR era Western post 1950 but not GWR era.  Oh and the double ground disc should be a triple - or ideally stick with single discs (unless you're going in for interlocking  ).

 

Bays were used for terminating passenger trains on the GWR but they weren't particularly common especially at smaller stations and you'd need a good back story to explain it - but not impossible.  Slightly more difficult is the lack of a runround loop but that can be explained away by the use of push-pull trains or a diesel car or by addinga. second main line crossover as already mentioned 

Edited May 16, 2018 by The Stationmaster

[Harlequin]

I don't know if this quite fits the bill but I put it forward because it has many of the required attributes and it's one of my favourite places in the world: Kintbury on the main line from Reading down to the south west.

 

(1936 from old-maps.co.uk)

 

Trackplan: Double-track main line, two platforms, signal box, a goods loop off the down main with shed and cattle pens, a separate goods siding, a crossover.

Scenery: Canal with towpath, locks and weir bypass, water meadows, level crossing, overbridges, church, vicarage, pub, corn mill, all set in a very verdant landscape...

 

All very linear and concentrated in arrangement, which should lend itself to modelling. Some rearrangement and compression may be needed to get all of the above features into a design, though.

 

Finally, because it's on a mainline you could run proper express trains and really hefty goods traffic through it.

 

[Edit: No bay platform, though...]

Edited May 17, 2018 by Harlequin

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

...My last layout had the track plan below and I would like something similar but I figured with the number of knowledgeable people on here there is no reason the next one can't be better!

 

 No one has asked yet, what is it you are looking to improve on that would make the new layout 'better'? Picturesque architecture, interesting track layout, particularly complicated signalling, scenic attraction, varied traffic through and/or stopping, complete pig to shunt, specific loco class allocated in the area, etc

[Joseph_Pestell]

 No one has asked yet, what is it you are looking to improve on that would make the new layout 'better'? Picturesque architecture, interesting track layout, particularly complicated signalling, scenic attraction, varied traffic through and/or stopping, complete pig to shunt, specific loco class allocated in the area, etc

 

Absolutely right. As others have said (and Kintbury illustrates well) the real railway tried to get all the facilities close together for ease of operation. But for us, it can be far more interesting to spread the facilities around a bit so that shunting is more complex.

 

Cattle docks are handy for this as they would be placed for easy herding of cattle to the local market. And other small industries such as dairies.

Edited May 16, 2018 by Joseph_Pestell

[outcastjack]

Thank you all, there are some cracking ideas in here.

 

In terms of better, I meant a more prototypical track plan the current one was sort of made up in the moment and whilst it started fine, as I started to build the station around it I realised that I really hadn't considered how bits would be arranged. Copying a real track plan should mean the arrangement makes more sense as I slot it into the landscape.

 

It also makes signalling less effort. 

[DCB]

I think in general two crossovers is lavish, not basic, and would need to have some justification - such as terminating passenger trains?

 

Rather than the facing connection into the down sidings, I'd expect a single slip giving an up-to-down main crossover and a trailing connection to the up main. (But then I'm a Midland man.) You can still run round using the down siding but the move would block both running lines.

The provision of a pair of cross overs at a double track station was very much the norm by the 20th century. The example I gave Chedworth only had a 3 coach platform and no scheduled passenger trains ever reversed there and that was the MR influenced MSWJR.  One example I found which only had one crossover on the 1895 plan, Chipping Camden on the OWW had a second crossover added sometime between 1895 and 1925.  If you have two crossovers there is a lot of scope for interesting operation. Locals terminating etc. An awful lot of through stations had trains terminate and reverse, probably more so in the south and Scotland  than the Midlands/North East,  In my area Swindon Town, Cirencester, Kemble, Chalford, Cheltenham had trains terminate at the through platforms and the loco run round to return the way they came.  This is all to rarely modelled yet gives a chance to do some extra shunting and slow running, as is the setting back of a slow goods onto the other line to allow a faster train to pass. 

 

I think the provision of Distant signals on the same post as starters is extremely unlikely, they would only be there where the next signal box was quite close, as they would be operated by the next signal box in advance.  The distants for the signal box modelled would be several feet further down the layout.   The kick back to the goods shed is equally unlikely and a pain in the butt to shunt, I made that particular mistake. Goods sheds are much more likely to be on a loop so wagons can be pushed right through

Edited May 17, 2018 by DavidCBroad

[Peter Crawford]

Two tracks coming from a bridge, a trailing crossover, loop platform and on the other end, a dead-end siding to a single road engine shed. On the other side, a couple of sidings.