Industrial steam locos in N

[TomJ]

I’ve been vaguely pondering a small N gauge layout based around ex GWR South Welsh valleys and probably featuring an exchange sidings with the NCB. Probably set in the late 50s, early 60s, the end of steam on the BR side. The only thing I’m lacking stockwise is a loco for the NCB branch.

Anyone know of anything suitable in N? The promised DJM austerity would be ideal but no idea when it’s released. I know at least one pannier made it into NCB ownership - any idea when this might have been?

Alternatively when might diesels have started to appear? Thinking of the Farish 03, 04. Were any of these used by the coal board, and when did they start to be sold from BR?

 

Kit or rtr is fine.

 

Thanks for the help

 

(X-posted to standard gauge industrial modelling) forum)

Edited May 17, 2018 by TomJ

[doilum]

I’ve been vaguely pondering a small N gauge layout based around ex GWR South Welsh valleys and probably featuring an exchange sidings with the NCB. Probably set in the late 50s, early 60s, the end of steam on the BR side. The only thing I’m lacking stockwise is a loco for the NCB branch.

Anyone know of anything suitable in N? The promised DJM austerity would be ideal but no idea when it’s released. I know at least one pannier made it into NCB ownership - any idea when this might have been?

Alternatively when might diesels have started to appear? Thinking of the Farish 03, 04. Were any of these used by the coal board, and when did they start to be sold from BR?

Kit or rtr is fine.

Thanks for the help

(X-posted to standard gauge industrial modelling) forum)

Outside my usual scale, but did Farish do an austerity?

Seem to remember one on a club layout a few years ago.

[TomJ]

They did a while ago. I think it was Poole era and so not up to modern standards or available anymore. But thanks for reminding me. I will keep an eye on eBay etc to see if one comes up

[Steamport Southport]

There was someone who made a selection of whitemetal kits for industrials in the 1980s to fit on RTR chassis. Including Pecketts, Barclays and Hudswell Clarkes ISTR.

 

It might have been PD Marsh.

 

 

The pannier tanks were sold to the NCB in the late 1950s and lasted until the mid 1970s.

 

03 and 04s were definitely used. I think BR began selling them in the late 1960s and they lasted until the end of the NCB.

 

 

 

 

Jason

[PGH]

 A quick skip (and I emphasise quick as it may not be comprehensive) gives the following info from Industrial Railway Society records:

 

The NCB in South Wales inherited 4 Wolverhampton 0-6-0PTs, the last survived until 1961.

2 similar locos were acquired by the NCB in 1956

 

The first of the later 0-6-0PTs were acquired in 1959 - 1600, 7714 and 7754

 

The first ex BR diesel seems to be D2182 acquired in 1968 via the dealer A.R.Adams of Newport. 

If you're interested, further details of ex BR diesels can be obtained from the Industrial Railway Society's publication:  Ex-BR Diesels in Industry Price £9.95

[Barclay]

I think Peco did one or 2 white metal industrials years ago, probably body only kits to fit a continental chassis.

[Sandhole]

I think Peco did one or 2 white metal industrials years ago, probably body only kits to fit a continental chassis.

Yes they did. 

I think a Peckett was one kit. They fitted on a Fleischmann chassis.

Of course, the dear old 08, as done by Farish, has been used on all sorts of industrial set ups. From coal mines to Trafford Park, to the current example at Dawson's in Middlesborough, handling modertn rolling stock and rubbing shoulders with 66s.

                                          C.

[Revolution Ben]

 

Hi Tom,

 

Not steam but the NGS is offering the Hunslet DH 0-6-0 as an exclusive RTR model.

 

The model has been tooled and we should have first EP samples here in the next fortnight. There are three early NCB liveries in the first run - two tone green, maroon and olive green.

 

Might be worth a look?

 

Cheers

 

Ben A.

[The Johnster]

You can add 9600 and 9642, both 8750 variants, to the NCB's South Wales panniers.  7754 in particular got about a bit, serving at a number of collieries, and thus is a very suitable candidate to model.  Unlined mid green livery with painted numbers and red coupling rods, usually a bit unkempt.

 

Apart from these, 'Austerity' Hunsets, Peckett 0-4-0s, and Andrew Barclays of various types were the common fare, with a good few Avonsides thrown in.  Abersychan had some AB 0-6-0s that were real monsters, brutal and powerful machines that were the negation of the normal rather quaint/cute AB style, and one must at least mention the Maerdy Monster, a massive Peckett that that barely fitted in the loading gauge and was reputed to be 7F in power classification. Some 'Austerities' (the NCB, more correctly, called them Hunslet 18 and a ½ inch engines) came from Yorkshire Engine or RSH; there were few visual differences that would make much odds in N scale.  Some pits, especially the smaller ones, kept their engines in very clean condition.

 

Your period is a bit early for ex-BR diesels, but D3000 was an early sale to the Mountain Ash system.  'Industrial standard model' diesels were not unknown, despite steam having the advantage for the NCB of virtually free fuel; not all pits produced steam coal and some costs were incurred at some places.  

 

Ben A's Hunset diesel is also an ideal candidate.

 

Liveries were a bit of a hotch potch, with 40 shades of green and the odd maroon or blue loco here or there; one suspects that, if there ever was a standard livery for the area, it fell victim to what was available at sheds and workshops at the time and tended to be a bit 'approximate'.

 

Be careful, this is a very seductive world and you may find yourself only grudgingly modelling any of BR's participation in all this.

[Kris]

This might be suitable. Never seen one built, but I have considered building one myself. 

 

http://www.nbrasslocos.co.uk/ypeckettloco.html

[doilum]

You can add 9600 and 9642, both 8750 variants, to the NCB's South Wales panniers.  7754 in particular got about a bit, serving at a number of collieries, and thus is a very suitable candidate to model.  Unlined mid green livery with painted numbers and red coupling rods, usually a bit unkempt.

 

Apart from these, 'Austerity' Hunsets, Peckett 0-4-0s, and Andrew Barclays of various types were the common fare, with a good few Avonsides thrown in.  Abersychan had some AB 0-6-0s that were real monsters, brutal and powerful machines that were the negation of the normal rather quaint/cute AB style, and one must at least mention the Maerdy Monster, a massive Peckett that that barely fitted in the loading gauge and was reputed to be 7F in power classification. Some 'Austerities' (the NCB, more correctly, called them Hunslet 18 and a ½ inch engines) came from Yorkshire Engine or RSH; there were few visual differences that would make much odds in N scale.  Some pits, especially the smaller ones, kept their engines in very clean condition.

 

Your period is a bit early for ex-BR diesels, but D3000 was an early sale to the Mountain Ash system.  'Industrial standard model' diesels were not unknown, despite steam having the advantage for the NCB of virtually free fuel; not all pits produced steam coal and some costs were incurred at some places.  

 

Ben A's Hunset diesel is also an ideal candidate.

 

Liveries were a bit of a hotch potch, with 40 shades of green and the odd maroon or blue loco here or there; one suspects that, if there ever was a standard livery for the area, it fell victim to what was available at sheds and workshops at the time and tended to be a bit 'approximate'.

 

Be careful, this is a very seductive world and you may find yourself only grudgingly modelling any of BR's participation in all this.

There is a photo in "Industrial Steam" of 7754 at Blaenserchan colliery in May 1969. It is pulling a paddy tran consisting of 12 ton vans all with doors open. Too dark to see if any rudimentary seats were fitted.

Even in 2mm f/s the only visible differences between austerities will be modifications to hand rails and footsteps, and to the chimney/ funnel of giesel or porta attempts at clean air emissions.

Hunslets are like pints: a boy can never have just the one.

[TomJ]

Thanks for all the advice. And thanks for the warning - it is very seductive. I have spent a happy evening googling images of South Wales steam, and the N.C.B./industrial side is fascinat8ng. I can see me getting quite a fleet for this side, even though i only need one!

 

The information about the panniers is really useful, thanks. I didn’t realise they arrived on the N.C.B. as early as 1959 - so I can definitely get away with one on my early 1960s era layout. Even better I found N image of one still with its BR crests on the side, so I can use my existing one with no repainting! In the long run I will wait for a DJM austerity, but for now at least there’s someth8ng I can run

[TomJ]

So following all the advice on here I've come up with a couple of options! Do I buy a Farish 64xx for the WR side and loan my 57xx to the NCB, in a dirty weathered black but still with its BR crest? When the DJM austerity turns up the NCB can always return it to BR? Or shall I plump for the Dapol 57xx as 7754 in NCB mid green? I'm also researching the N Brass Locos Peckett 0-4-0 as something a bit different

 

Decision time!

[doilum]

0 4 0 were relatively rare in collieries, found only where space was restricted and curves tight.

They also are more sensitive models with regard to smooth running.

So,your choice is ........

[dpgibbons]

The NGS Hunslet will have a Stay Alive capacity which for me would tip the balance in its favour for use on a shunting layout.

[The Johnster]

There is a photo in "Industrial Steam" of 7754 at Blaenserchan colliery in May 1969. It is pulling a paddy tran consisting of 12 ton vans all with doors open. Too dark to see if any rudimentary seats were fitted.

Even in 2mm f/s the only visible differences between austerities will be modifications to hand rails and footsteps, and to the chimney/ funnel of giesel or porta attempts at clean air emissions.

Hunslets are like pints: a boy can never have just the one.

 

The Blaenserchan paddy train was always propelled up the bank as it was not fitted with vacuum brakes; the vans were IIRC ex GW and there were plain wooden bench and central seats fitted.  NCB black livery was used, but I cannot now recall details of branding or numbering.  I remember 7754 at this location, but on the days I visited it was never in steam and the paddy was worked by one of the big Andrew Barclay 0-6-0s.  I attempted to drive an austerity up the Gelynos bank, 1 in 14 on one of my visits; this was not the crowning glory of my limited engine driving career!

 

7754 also served at Mountain Ash and, I believe, Maerdy.  9600, at Merthyr Vale, retained it's black ferret and dartboard BR livery and electrification warning flashes, and was still pretty clean in 1969; there was a story that it had been bought from Abercynon shed in late 1965 and worked up the valley light engine under it's own steam; this would have been very irregular and my belief is that it probably was in steam to work the lubricators, but taken up in a coal train; it may well have then turned up at the colliery from Black Lion exchange sidings under it's own power!

 

Hunslet 18 and a half inch 'austerities' were the NCB standard, some built by YE or RSH but visually identical, and I cannot off hand think of any South Wales colliery system that used 0-6-0s that did not have one; some places had them exclusively.  They are, as has been said, like pints; one is never enough.

[neal cooper]

I have these a Dapol Pannier and a Farish 04 in NCB livery. A lots of NGS Hunslets on order...

I have these a Dapol Pannier and a Farish 04 in NCB livery. A lots of NGS Hunslets on order...

[maridunian]

Hi - two Farish Austerities wore NCB liveries, a blue 'National Coal Board' and a green 'Robert', both based on actual prototypes. Taking your points about how dated these models are, you can pick them up for £30-£40 on eBay and with a little effort enhance them quite a bit. Here's an article I wrote elsewhere about improving a 'Robert' - http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=41105.msg502990#msg502990

Mike

Edited June 4, 2018 by maridunian

[TomJ]

Thanks for the link - it looks really good what you’ve done to it.

 

My main concerns though about buying one are converting it to DCC - should be doable as most Farish stuff is straightforward - and changing the couplings for Dapol easi-shunt as that’s what I use and this will be a very shunting style of layout.

[maridunian]

Just a footnote to this thread Tom.

 

Also wanting to diversify my fleet of N Gauge industrials, I've 3D designed some Peckett body-shells which fit the old Minitrix 0-6-0 (Fowler 2f Dock Shunter/BR89 T3 Little Donkey) chassis. No pretence that these are exact scale models - most of the motors are too tall to allow that - but I'm pleased with the results which I've shared at https://www.shapeways.com/shops/maridunian-models

 

Mike