Jump to content
 

Non corridor Colletts for South Wales


Recommended Posts

For me this project has run at breakneck speed. It was only early last year that I was inspired by Lofty and a comment by Chris Foren to start this project. The first step was to purchase 9 of the old airfix b set coaches and that was easily achieved using my favourite auction site. I then managed to visit the Railway Museum last November to see the diagrams for these coaches.
post-6743-0-80292900-1526576232_thumb.jpgpost-6743-0-12226600-1526576254_thumb.jpg

There's a lot to do with the chassis which are going to end up being almost scratch built.

Edited by Penrhos1920
  • Like 6
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Premium

How easy is it to get the roof off these coaches? I have a couple which are ripe for upgrading. Had a brief go at the roof but it wasn't obvious it would come off without breaking something.

Link to post
Share on other sites

How easy is it to get the roof off these coaches? I have a couple which are ripe for upgrading. Had a brief go at the roof but it wasn't obvious it would come off without breaking something.

The roof, sides and ends are one piece.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Have you something against the Comet sides and coach chassis?

 

regards

 

Mike

I already have a triplet of Comet coaches, but Comet don't do all of the diagrams that ran in South Wales. There is a set of Comet sides for the All third sitting in the project box, but the Comet sides have much larger windows than the Airfix coach. So the whole set of five coaches will be converted from airfix donors. I'll be using Comet parts for the chassis.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Which diagrams are you referring to? Just interested thats all. Having built the 9 coaches that comprised the workers coaches thru Little Mill - all of which were Collets - welcome to plant hinge! Soldering that lot nearly drove me mad. But worth it once they were finished and weathered.

 

Mike

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

The diagrams are D110 brake third, Comet offer D109 which has one more compartment:

post-6743-0-81575100-1527537766_thumb.jpg

 

C61 third, which Comet do:

 

post-6743-0-43220400-1527537948_thumb.jpg

E142 composite:

 

post-6743-0-34038300-1527538102_thumb.jpg

D110 and C61 bodies are part made in the first post. The question is how to make the composite. Do I cheat and make it from 3 pieces or from 9 pieces and get it all right?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Are those scaled drawings? I could be talked round to drawing a set of sides and ends. Would the Comet whitemetal ends be suitable to give the rounded end? Just a thought...

 

Mike

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Premium

The roof, sides and ends are one piece.

 

Could explain why the roof wouldn't come off!  So, to get at the interior, can the floor and interior be removed from below?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Could explain why the roof wouldn't come off!  So, to get at the interior, can the floor and interior be removed from below?

Yes, pull the sides apart at one end and they unclip from the chassis, then in the middle and then the other end.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Are those scaled drawings? I could be talked round to drawing a set of sides and ends. Would the Comet whitemetal ends be suitable to give the rounded end? Just a thought...

 

Mike

I'm not sure the drawings are scale, but obviously the dimensions are. The Comet ends are not the correct profile for these GWR coaches, they are too narrow, but I know that the old Airfix body is the correct profile. As Lofty says the biggest issue with the Airfix bodies is removing the weird door locks and giving the impression of recessed locks.

Link to post
Share on other sites

If they're the same profile as the E147 B sets then I've already drawn and had those etched. These are still available from PPD. If they were scale it'd be an easy task to scan them into AutoCAD and draw over them.

 

post-9192-0-19937800-1527616735_thumb.jpg

 

post-9192-0-99239500-1527616773_thumb.jpg

 

Mike

 

  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites

Clearwater, you need to qualify that question with dates.  In GWR days South Wales had 10 five coach sets formed D101+C56+E134+C56+D101 and six formed D110+C61+E142+C61+D110, subsequrently supplemented by stock transferred in from elsewhere.  The West Midlands had mostly four coach sets - seven formed D86+E124+E124+D86, seven formed D91+E125+E125 +D91, 15 formed D98+E131+E131+D98 and eight formed D109+E141+E141+D109.  Alll this changed in the 1950s when in South Wales what were called "standard five coach sets" were assembled from a mixture of the sets listed above and stock built for general service.  The West Midlands stock was reorganised into three coach E sets formed composite, brake third, third, again with a mixture of stock from the four coach sets and general service.

 

Chris 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

In addition to the 5 coach sets, the Cardiff Division had 5 B-sets, 3 formed of E140s and 2 formed of E147s. The Airfix model is E140 and is the same bodyshell as the D110, C61 & E142 sets that I'm modelling (just a different arrangement of compartments).

 

The Cardiff Division also had a pair of brake thirds, D91. What isn't clear is whether they ran as a pair or with other coaches. Probably the later I suspect as there were plenty of absorbed coaches for them to be formed with.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Clearwater, you need to qualify that question with dates.  In GWR days South Wales had 10 five coach sets formed D101+C56+E134+C56+D101 and six formed D110+C61+E142+C61+D110, subsequrently supplemented by stock transferred in from elsewhere.  The West Midlands had mostly four coach sets - seven formed D86+E124+E124+D86, seven formed D91+E125+E125 +D91, 15 formed D98+E131+E131+D98 and eight formed D109+E141+E141+D109.  Alll this changed in the 1950s when in South Wales what were called "standard five coach sets" were assembled from a mixture of the sets listed above and stock built for general service.  The West Midlands stock was reorganised into three coach E sets formed composite, brake third, third, again with a mixture of stock from the four coach sets and general service.

 

Chris

 

Thanks Chris - you're quite right I should have been more precise! My interest is predominantly the 1930s. My understanding is that the Birmingham regional had two basic sets of coaches (I appreciate somewhat of a simplification!) One was "toplight era" and a later Collett set era. Per Warwickshire railways (http://www.warwickshirerailways.com/gwr/gwrms1787.htm), the collett diagrams are D87 and E124 albeit there seem to have been some tweaking to these to create D91 and E125. I was wondering how similar these diagrams are to the South Wales sets.

 

David

Link to post
Share on other sites

This is a holding reply because I am going to be out all day and will not have time to refresh my memory before I leave.  I need to check which issue of GWRJ contained an article by John Lewis about Birmingham Division suburban stock, which you will find useful, and my copy of Harris to remind myself which designs were bow ended and which were not.  I'm not sure I would use the word "tweak".  Successive designs of coach had different configurations for a reason.  The D109, for instance, had six passenger compartments and a smaller brake than the D110 which had five and the matching composites had different numbers of first and third class compartments.  Who decided that one division would have one type and another division the other?

 

Chris

Link to post
Share on other sites

Who decided that one division would have one type and another division the other?

 

 

This would have been decided before the construction of the vehicles was authorised in the first place. Nobody just ordered new carriages (or locos), authority, usually from the board of directors, would have been required and that would only have been given where a need (and, hopefully, a resulting financial payback) could be demonstrated.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry for the delay.

 

Re D86 [not D87] and D91, Russell reminds us that the D86 had seats which followed the curve of the bow end as opposed to the normal straight-across seats in the D91.  The same applied to the E124 and E125 respectively.  Externally there was little if any visible difference so perhaps I was unkind in dismissing the word "tweak".

 

I still need to find the issue of GWRJ with the article about Birmingham non-corridor stock but the index is not altogether helpful.  Watch this space.

 

Chris 

 

EDIT - issue 5

Edited by chrisf
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I still need to find the issue of GWRJ with the article about Birmingham non-corridor stock but the index is not altogether helpful.  Watch this space.

 

Chris 

 

Chris, is this it:

'Birmingham Division Suburban Trains' by John Lewis (who else???) Issue 5 p 216?

 

Discovered from the incredibly useful GWRJ index on http://www.gwrjournal.com/

(Similar indices available for MRJ & BRJ)

 

HTH

Martin

 
Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...