cctransuk Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 Maybe it was just the Mainline originals that were too wide, then - sorry ! I don't think that there were any more than the original set of tools, from which all versions were produced. Mine are Mainline, and they're not too wide. Regards, John Isherwood. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickham Green Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 I don't think that there were any more than the original set of tools, from which all versions were produced. Mine are Mainline, and they're not too wide. Regards, John Isherwood. hmmmmm ....................... I'll have to get my tape measure our when I get home ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewartingram Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 Maybe it was an Aldi tape measure? Stewart Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickham Green Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 Havind dragged my part-converted Dia.2129 full brake out of the rusty & weed-grown M.G.R. sidings* and consulted the Jenkinson/Essery oracle I can confirm that I DID cut it down to the correct 36mm ( 9'0'' ) body width ........ Mainline/ Bachmann et al appear have misread the drawings and made their model 37mm ( 9'3'' ) wide - but that's the 'Over Handles' or overall width. [ OK, it's only 1mm - getting on for 3% ) * Must Get Roundtuit Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianwales Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 Havind dragged my part-converted Dia.2129 full brake out of the rusty & weed-grown M.G.R. sidings* and consulted the Jenkinson/Essery oracle I can confirm that I DID cut it down to the correct 36mm ( 9'0'' ) body width ........ Mainline/ Bachmann et al appear have misread the drawings and made their model 37mm ( 9'3'' ) wide - but that's the 'Over Handles' or overall width. [ OK, it's only 1mm - getting on for 3% ) * Must Get Roundtuit Hi Diag 2129? is that correct as I can't find a 2129 in the full brake lists in Jenkinson vol 3? Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickham Green Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 Hi Diag 2129? is that correct as I can't find a 2129 in the full brake lists in Jenkinson vol 3? Ian Not unlike http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/lmsambulance/h6E4D326C#h6e4d326c - though converted from a rather different 'donor' ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris45lsw Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 Hi Diag 2129? is that correct as I can't find a 2129 in the full brake lists in Jenkinson vol 3? Ian Yes, there were two diagrams D 2129 and D 2130 - the difference being 2.25 inches in overall height. D 2130 was higher because the roof vents were closer together and therefore nearer the centre line of the roof. There were more variations within each diagram than between diagrams because both were converted from examples of Period 1 TO, BTO, BTK and CK. So they all had a guard's compartment at one end and two pairs of double doors, the position of which varied depending on the 'donor' vehicle. There's a paragraph about them on page 110 of Vol 3, a list in table 5© on page 112 and two diagrams on page 130. Chris KT Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris45lsw Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 Yes, there were two diagrams D 2129 and D 2130 - the difference being 2.25 inches in overall height. D 2130 was higher because the roof vents were closer together and therefore nearer the centre line of the roof. There were more variations within each diagram than between diagrams because both were converted from examples of Period 1 TO, BTO, BTK and CK. So they all had a guard's compartment at one end and two pairs of double doors, the position of which varied depending on the 'donor' vehicle. There's a paragraph about them on page 110 of Vol 3, a list in table 5© on page 112 and two diagrams on page 130. Chris KT That should be table 5©! Chris KT Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris45lsw Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 That should be table 5©! Chris KT Computer has a mind of its own - 5 'cee'! Chris KT Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 Havind dragged my part-converted Dia.2129 full brake out of the rusty & weed-grown M.G.R. sidings* and consulted the Jenkinson/Essery oracle I can confirm that I DID cut it down to the correct 36mm ( 9'0'' ) body width ........ Mainline/ Bachmann et al appear have misread the drawings and made their model 37mm ( 9'3'' ) wide - but that's the 'Over Handles' or overall width. [ OK, it's only 1mm - getting on for 3% ) * Must Get Roundtuit I fitted Comet ends to three of mine and they are a perfect fit. Just saying. The coaches look right enough at any rate. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharris Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 (edited) Even on a model, the light reflected off the raised beading could be construed for full panelled lining on an old black & white photo... So you mean I don't have to do the lining on my ex LNWR and ex Midland coaches - I just have to shine a light on them? Well, that's a job saved! Edited May 25, 2018 by sharris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianwales Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 Yes, there were two diagrams D 2129 and D 2130 - the difference being 2.25 inches in overall height. D 2130 was higher because the roof vents were closer together and therefore nearer the centre line of the roof. There were more variations within each diagram than between diagrams because both were converted from examples of Period 1 TO, BTO, BTK and CK. So they all had a guard's compartment at one end and two pairs of double doors, the position of which varied depending on the 'donor' vehicle. There's a paragraph about them on page 110 of Vol 3, a list in table 5© on page 112 and two diagrams on page 130. Chris KT Thanks Chris I find the whole subject of LMS coaches fascinating. Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stanley Melrose Posted May 25, 2018 Author Share Posted May 25, 2018 Hello, I certainly hadn't expected this topic to get onto a second page and bring forth a surprising number of additional details. Besides the Bachmann and Replica details listed below, I wonder if anyone can provide details of the Mainline versions of these coaches? I admit that thanks to the details already provided I now have 16 of these coaches (thanks to eBay and the information already suppplied) and have ordered Comet sides from Wizard Models to make a number of variations on LMS Period I coaches based on the LMS versions to go along with the BR versions. I don't have Pat Hammond's book so maybe the relevant information is in there? Once again, many thanks for the contributions already made. Cheers, Stan From Pat Hammond's book the BR livery LMS Period 1 stock was as follows:- LMS 57' Period 1 Composite BR Maroon M3541M Replica Railways 12202 BR Maroon M3565M Bachmann 34-250 Crimson/Cream M3672M Bachmann 34-300 LMS 57' Period 1 Brake 3rd BR Maroon M5334M Replica Railways 12212 BR Maroon M5315M Bachmann 34-225 Crimson/Cream M5267M Bachmann 34-275 These models were based on the Mainline version but Godfrey Hayes at Replica had the roof modified with separately added vents and the hard integral corridor connections were replaced by a separate flexible one. The Replica version was made in 1989 and the Bachmann ones in 1990. The lack of an all 3rd is an inconvenience rather than a total disaster for BR modellers as in later years they were often mixed with Period 2 and early period 3 stock and regularly appeared in short trains which had Brake/Compo/Brake formations. As far as I can work out the totals of all-door corridor stock built in the early days of the LMS were Model versions Brake 3rd 5-compartment 125 Composite 4x3rd 3x1st 201 Other versions Brake 3rd 14 Composite 30 Third 250 it should be noted that a large number of these coaches were used overseas in WW2, some having been converted to Ambulance Train vehicles. Some never returned and a lot of those which did were converted to Full Brakes in 1946-49. Among these were about 60 of the modelled versions including numbers 3672 and 5315 used by Bachmann. 3672 was still running as BG No. M31175M in 1965. The last BG conversions were scrapped around 1967. All of the ones which had remained in passenger use were withdrawn c1957-62 although some lasted in departmental use. 3565 became DM395776 allocated to the CS&TE Signal Box Construction depot at Crewe. It was at British Railways Staff Association at Aylesbury in the early 1980s, and is now in a semi-derelict condition at Peak Rail. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted May 25, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 25, 2018 According to Pat Hammomd the Mainline versions were LMS 57' Period 1 Composite LMS Maroon 3621 Cat 37109 Crimson/Cream M3621M Cat 37111 BR Maroon M3542M Cat 37115 LMS 57' Period 1 Brake 3rd LMS Maroon 5327 Cat 37110 Crimson/Cream M5321M Cat 37112 Crimson/Cream M5371M Cat 37112 BR Maroon M5335M Cat 37116 Hammond lists a few strange variations in roof colours, lining and matt finishes but I am not sure how common those were judging by the prices he gives for them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stanley Melrose Posted May 25, 2018 Author Share Posted May 25, 2018 Once again, many thanks! Stan According to Pat Hammomd the Mainline versions were LMS 57' Period 1 Composite LMS Maroon 3621 Cat 37109 Crimson/Cream M3621M Cat 37111 BR Maroon M3542M Cat 37115 LMS 57' Period 1 Brake 3rd LMS Maroon 5327 Cat 37110 Crimson/Cream M5321M Cat 37112 Crimson/Cream M5371M Cat 37112 BR Maroon M5335M Cat 37116 Hammond lists a few strange variations in roof colours, lining and matt finishes but I am not sure how common those were judging by the prices he gives for them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Lee Posted May 26, 2018 Share Posted May 26, 2018 I have 2 Mainline ones in LMS livery, and they do indeed have the numbers TheSignalEngineer quotes. I also have 3 fairly recent Bachmann ones in LMS livery. The differences that I can see are the coach numbers, the Bachmann ones have better corridor connections, the coaches have either "Bachmann" or "Mainline" on the underside as appropriate, and the Bachmann ones came with metal wheels, whereas I had to swap the plastic wheels of the Mainline ones for metal wheels myself. Oh, and the grey roof colour is slightly different, although well within the variation that you might see in a photograph of a prototype steam-age train. Neither the Bachmann nor the Mainline ones have NEM pockets, but can readily be bodged to accept Kadees. I am pleased with them, and they were relatively inexpensive. The 3 Bachmann coaches came free when I bought the running-in oval and controller, along with a 4-4-0 Midland Railway liveried Compound for £150. The only problem that I have is that my layout isn't really big enough for 5 coach trains. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poor Old Bruce Posted May 26, 2018 Share Posted May 26, 2018 (edited) If anyone is interested in 'variations on a theme', Alan Gibson did a set of etched sides for six of the late Midland coaches (two thirds, two compos, a brake third and a brake compo). They passed to David Geen so their future may be currently uncertain as I believe he is now contemplating retiring. Edited May 26, 2018 by Poor Old Bruce Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted May 26, 2018 Share Posted May 26, 2018 I produced most of the late Midland eliptical roof diagrams in 2005-6, and although they have long been out of production, the images below will give you an idea of what the coaches look like especially if you are considering buying the David Geen etchings.... MR D1284 brake third.... Midland D1283 brake composite Midland D1282 all-third... Midland D1281 composite... Midland D1255 Brake first (ex.Ambulance)... Midland D1252 all-third (ex.Ambulance)... 10 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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