New Swindon Cross-Country DMU (later Class 120) on test?

[dibber25]

I wonder if any of the DMU Detectives can fill in any more information on this? I found it among Don Lovelock's photographs. He was the son of the Black Dog Halt station master on the Calne branch and was a keen recorder of local railway events. It shows two Swindon-built motor brakes (think they are 120 motor brake compos. They have antimacassars but no '1' on the doors) coupled back to back apparently running-in on the Calne branch. I'm told they were crew-training but I'm wondering if anyone can throw any more light on what they were doing and when. It seems strange to couple together two cars that would be in two different units, to run crew-training trips. Unfortunately reflection prevents seeing how many people are in the cab. I've only found one small print, which suggests that this particular photo has not been seen publicly before. (CJL)

Edited May 22, 2018 by dibber25

[The Stationmaster]

Clearly not a service train so that leaves the following possibilities I think -

 

1. Test running/trial working of some sort, or

 

2. Running in, or

 

3. Driver training, or

 

4. Timing test/verification

 

I would discount No. 4 because of the formation but it could be any of the others although it does seem a bit of a way to go for test running although at least it was clear of the main lines.  I suspect the vehicles were probably just what happened to be available rather than anything else.

[The Johnster]

Would Swindon have built these in batches so that the DMBCs were finished before the DMSs were, which would account for only that type of vehicle being available for driver training.  It would make sense for a training run to start from Swindon, run down to Chippenham, and then have a branch to play around with reversing or practicing start and stop of engines on, then a fast run back up to Swindon in time for lunch, then maybe another expedition in the pm.  If drivers had to travel to Swindon for the training, then one would not have a full day to train them with.

 

There was no '1' on the doors, by the way, as they were also the entrance to the second class compartment on these vehicles.  The 'first class' sausage and 'no smoking' triangle are applied, and I assume that, once the other vehicles were accepted into traffic, the sets were put into service

[Bomag]

Would Swindon have built these in batches so that the DMBCs were finished before the DMSs were, which would account for only that type of vehicle being available for driver training. 

 

Class 120 were not delivered in sets, there was some overlap in construction of the driving cars and intermediate cars but to start with (end of 1957) there were only DMBC finished.

Edited May 20, 2018 by Bomag

[chrisf]

I agree with Bomag that the 120s were not delivered in sets but not that there were only DMBC finished at the end of 1958.  The 120s were introduced into public service on 21st April 1958 between Cardiff and Bristol and between Cardiff, Hereford and Birmingham.

 

Chris 

Edited May 20, 2018 by chrisf

[HillsideDepot]

It looks to me like a Down train in the cutting at Hazeland, although my knowledge of the line is sadly only from cycling it (although I am grateful for that access to it). I've left Calne on, to give a better fix on the location, and added a note of Blackdog Halt.

Image from Bing Maps, based on Ordnance Survey data.

[Wickham Green]

Class 120 ? ......... however many people were on board, not one of them would have known what you were talking about !

[Bomag]

Class 120 ? ......... however many people were on board, not one of them would have known what you were talking about !

 

Just as I don't know what you are implying - the vehicles are to Diagram 587 probably Lot 30335

[Dunsignalling]

Just as I don't know what you are implying - the vehicles are to Diagram 587 probably Lot 30335

When these units were built, TOPS hadn't yet been invented so there was no such thing as a Class 120, just a Swindon Cross-country Unit. 

 

John

Edited May 21, 2018 by Dunsignalling

[Dunsignalling]

I wonder if there's any connection between this thread and one covering the Model Rail Announcement...……….

[HillsideDepot]

I wonder if there's any connection between this thread and one covering the Model Rail Announcement...……….

I'd happily take mine (albeit in blue/grey) along the Calne Branch, if it helped the case.

[D9020 Nimbus]

Well, Heljan are doing it in O, and it scored well in both 00 and N in the last wishlist poll...

[dibber25]

When these units were built, TOPS hadn't yet been invented so there was no such thing as a Class 120, just a Swindon Cross-country Unit. 

 

John

 

Believe it or not, I did give the heading some thought. My heading was for the benefit of people reading the thread today, not those (if there were any) riding on the train 60 years ago. I always think of those units and usually refer to them as Swindon Cross-Country units but, fact is, half the people you talk to about first generation DMUs don't know one from the other, so TOPS codes can sometimes be quite useful. Of course, initially TOPS had separate codes for each car type, so they weren't strictly Class 120s when TOPS came out anyway. (CJL)

[Oldddudders]

Believe it or not, I did give the heading some thought. My heading was for the benefit of people reading the thread today, not those (if there were any) riding on the train 60 years ago. I always think of those units and usually refer to them as Swindon Cross-Country units but, fact is, half the people you talk to about first generation DMUs don't know one from the other, so TOPS codes can sometimes be quite useful. Of course, initially TOPS had separate codes for each car type, so they weren't strictly Class 120s when TOPS came out anyway. (CJL)

I feel your pain. Few hobbies have this great info divide. Those of us who grew up in the pre-TOPS era are still thinking in those days’ terms, while younger people know nothing else.

[brushman47544]

Of course, initially TOPS had separate codes for each car type, so they weren't strictly Class 120s when TOPS came out anyway. (CJL)

The DMBCs were originally Class 120/2, so in this case the generic Class 120 is ok. The DMSLs were Class 120/1 and the TSL/RBs Class 179.

[Butler Henderson]

Could the thread title be expanded with "in late 1950s" on the end of it. As someone who suffered the decaying units in the 1980s the thought of a new 120 today sends shivers down the spine

[EddieK]

There was no '1' on the doors, by the way, as they were also the entrance to the second class compartment on these vehicles.  The 'first class' sausage and 'no smoking' triangle are applied, and I assume that, once the other vehicles were accepted into traffic, the sets were put into service

Agreed with the above re branding of the doorway. Winding the clock forwards, in the latter part of the 1970s and very early 1980s, refurbished DMUs of classes 101 and 108 that were overhauled / refurbished at Swindon had First Class vestibules adjacent to the First Class compartments. On 101 Trailer Composites, this was the extreme end vestibule, the one that existed in place of a cab, if you see what I mean, but on Driving Trailer Composites and Motor Composites the "First Class" vestibule was the one behind the First Class compartment. In theory, then, the second class passengers would have to enter via the rearmost vestibule only. 

From memory, this system was also applied to Classes 104 and 105 vehicles.

At least they did not ever apply this to the single passenger door on Class 119 and 120 Motor Brake Composites, as second class passengers would have had an awkward journey from the centre car, through the luggage area to get to the two window bays of second class accommodation. On the few Class 120 Motor Brake Firsts in Scotland, the one door could have been branded First Class.

[Clive Mortimore]

I feel your pain. Few hobbies have this great info divide. Those of us who grew up in the pre-TOPS era are still thinking in those days’ terms, while younger people know nothing else.

I say "Swindon Cross Country" to myself when I see a photo but have to say class 120 to most people or they look at me "You are doing it again, I don't have a clue what your on about". This includes most steam modellers as well as those not old enough to remember a time without TOPS. I think a lot of steam modellers went through a period of blanking anything that was not a steam loco, then saw there was more to railways so only know the name number  of the loco or unit as written in the manufacturers catalogue. 

[dibber25]

I have to think for a moment to remember TOPS classes, especially on the Western Region where we had Warships, Westerns and Hymeks which sounded so much nicer than 42s, 52s and 35s. (CJL)

[melmerby]

I have to think for a moment to remember TOPS classes, especially on the Western Region where we had Warships, Westerns and Hymeks which sounded so much nicer than 42s, 52s and 35s. (CJL)

Does anyone ever refer to TOPS class 98s on the main line?

Ooh look! Here comes a class 98/5 - It's Rood Ashton Hall

 

Keith

[Dunsignalling]

I have to think for a moment to remember TOPS classes, especially on the Western Region where we had Warships, Westerns and Hymeks which sounded so much nicer than 42s, 52s and 35s. (CJL)

That's presumably because they were all withdrawn without getting renumbered.

 

John

[Bomag]

When these units were built, TOPS hadn't yet been invented so there was no such thing as a Class 120, just a Swindon Cross-country Unit. 

 

John

 

If we applied that logic you should complain on every topic which refers to Jubilees as they were originally referred too as, I believe, 'Red Staniers' or 'Modified Patriots'. Don't get me started on those who insist on using ETS instead of ETH - it comes down to using terminology which people understand.

[SRman]

I have to think for a moment to remember TOPS classes, especially on the Western Region where we had Warships, Westerns and Hymeks which sounded so much nicer than 42s, 52s and 35s. (CJL)

 

I agree with you when it applies to locomotive classes with distinctive names/nicknames - add 'Peaks' to the list - but for others, Brush type 2 doesn't convey the same instant recognition as class 30 or 31. I think we need some mental flexibility as well as chronological flexibility in our references.

[Wickham Green]

Luckily those of us on the Southernmost Region never got into the habit of calling the 'Hornbys' "Class 70" ...... or we'd really be confused now !

[dibber25]

I agree with you when it applies to locomotive classes with distinctive names/nicknames - add 'Peaks' to the list - but for others, Brush type 2 doesn't convey the same instant recognition as class 30 or 31. I think we need some mental flexibility as well as chronological flexibility in our references.

 

Depends on your age. The Brush Type 2 was an early RTR model (Tri-ang TT) and it will always be a Brush Type 2 to me - a nice diesel they used on the Eastern Region. The Class 31s were those horrible things they transferred onto the Western to 'replace' the Hymeks - LOUD LAUGHTER!! With apologies to Class 31 fans! (CJL)