Hornby elite is it junk? What alternatives

[russ p]

I've got an elite and two select slaves on a network

They seem pretty messy especially the selects

You have to mess around a bit to get the functions to work and the selects can't handle loco numbers

I've been told also I can't alter CVs with this system.

The plug in points are NCE connected by twisted pair cables.

There is also a pair of Hornby reverse loop modules and a power booster

If I were to change to say an NCE power cab would this give me significant benefits ?

The scissors crossing I have sometimes causes a short would more expensive systems be more or less sensitive?

And would the reverse loop modules still work with a better system?

I need a system with three or more plug in handsets any recommendations?

Cheers

[WIMorrison]

If you are ditching the Hornby then the market is pretty much open to you as you are effectivey starting from scratch, not that that makes things any easier.

 

What is that you need a new one to do that isn't done today by the Hornby system other than change CVs (though you can already change them

) as your list doesn't drive towards any make or capability.

 

You can have wired handsets if that is your desire or you can jump to the alternative and use iPhone/Android for handheld control and a computer for automation, you can also get Wi-Fi devices that may meet your need.

 

Unfortunately there are probably as many opinions on the 'right' system for anyone as there are products on the marketplace and I suggest that without a more detailed specification of what is needed then it isn't possible to be specific since all DCC systems allow you to change CVs

Edited May 23, 2018 by WIMorrison

[BWsTrains]

Unfortunately there are probably as many opinions on the 'right' system for anyone and I suggest that without a more detailed specification of what is needed then it isn't possible to be specific since all DCC systems allow you to change CVs

Hi,

 

Very true. My solution was very much a compromise between functionality and price as well as meeting my concerns about support for a high tech purchase unless I bought it here in Aus, (which in turn doubles the cost). Any return to UK under warranty would be prohibitive. What did I get? Hornby eLink (cue: jeers and ribald laughter from all sides)

 

But I am a very happy customer.

I bought it as part of a Hornby box set which I then broke up, on-selling many bits. This left me an excellent Hall loco for effectively 60 quid net and the eLink as a no-risk left over. I then bought a 2nd software license for 5 quid from the big retailer H 

 

Interface is GUI on a PC or iPad which sounds good but it is 'retro' to be kind. May even support touch screen on iPads?

Changing any CV is easy. It is of course Hornby-centric with lots of data pre-loaded for all Hornby Group locos but I have no problems adding my various Baccy locos.

I've no experience with controlling peripherals.

 

It works without fail, it's relatively tame, and all my grandchildren down to 4yrs old have no trouble operating locos, sounds etc. like real pros. What more can I say?

 

Colin 

 

PS added as edit. I have found the Hornby Select was not recognising newer DCC chips and having a conniption. Probably needs a firmware update and that presumably could apply to the Elite as it is not linked by internet. So might be worth checking your Elite firmware version and getting updated if not current (something else I can't do out here). eLink checks for updates every time you open it.

Edited May 23, 2018 by BWsTrains

[Nigelcliffe]

I've got an elite and two select slaves on a network

They seem pretty messy especially the selects

You have to mess around a bit to get the functions to work and the selects can't handle loco numbers

I've been told also I can't alter CVs with this system.

whoever told you that was wrong. It will alter CVs, though through the Elite keypad can be a slow process. But its slow through most systems keypads. The Elite has a USB socket which will connect to a computer, there you can run JMRI/DecoderPro to change any loco's CV's quite quickly.  Just needs a USB lead and a computer, no other expenditure.

 

The plug in points are NCE connected by twisted pair cables.

There is also a pair of Hornby reverse loop modules and a power booster

If I were to change to say an NCE power cab would this give me significant benefits ?

 

Depends by what you mean as "benefit", its different. Generally the Powercab is regarded as better to use in terms of button pushing and largely doing things in a structure which most find acceptable. However, comments below suggest it may not be right for you...

 

The scissors crossing I have sometimes causes a short would more expensive systems be more or less sensitive?

 

The only fix here is to fix the crossing so it doesn't cause shorts. A new system may make this problem more of an issue.

 

And would the reverse loop modules still work with a better system?

 

Depends on the reversing loop module you have, and which system you choose. The issue is speed of reaction and trip current. If the reversing loop trips too slowly, or at too high a current, then the main system might decide there is a short circuit and shut-down first. Some systems are very fast in shutting down (eg. ESU), others a bit slower. Some have a setting which slows it further. But, the make/model of reversing loop module and its internal settings is where to look first.

 

I need a system with three or more plug in handsets any recommendations?

 

So the PowerCab falls over at this hurdle. You can start with a PowerCab, then upgrade it to something more expensive in the NCE range (adding either a SB5 or PowerPro box), and then have capacity to add three/four handsets, but can't add that number of extra handsets to just the PowerCab.   NCE do make a quite nice smaller handset as a secondary device for their systems. 

 

Alternatives, there are lots. I would suggest including the ACE from Signatrak on your shortlist.  But, whatever you buy you need to fix the scissors crossing.

 

 

 

[RAF96]

The worst part of the Select is it only handles loco IDs 1-59 then points/accessories 60-99 and can alter very few cvs in fact only accel and decell.

 

You can string very many Select walkabouts either together or off an Elite. I have mine hanging off Railmaster as well using the eLink for points and the Elite/select for locos.

 

I can’t see why folk whine about this kit as I find it does what it says in the spec. Having the latest firmware revision is always wise in my opinion. The Elite you can do at home, the Select needs Hornby to do it. ELink as stated above sorts itself out via RM.

 

Edit - Hornby reverse loop module works with any controller as does booster as they connect to the track not the controller. RLM has a sensitivy switch for 1-amp or 4-amp supplies.

Edit again - Functions nothing faffy about it, completely simple - on the Elite press the Function button and a number, if you want higher range press function button again and again then a number. F0-F28.

On Select press a number then Function button. V1.5 accesses functions F0-F28.

 

Rob

Edited May 23, 2018 by RAFHAAA96

[russ p]

Thanks for the replies

The reverse loop modules are Hornby, I intend to change the section of track they are on as over the weekend I ran a 14 coach train and it tripped out as it straddled the section.

The scissors probably needs some paint to insulate the crossings, its a bit of a monster point as it also has three double slips in it see my layout thread.

I'm now starting to think my existing setup may stay.

I briefly set up a double headed consist which didn't seem very good as the sound didn't work correctly.

I need to work out how many locos I'm going to have as the selects are a problem with that.

I don't have a decent PC but a mate installed the latest firmware.

Glad I can adjust CVs as the sound fitted locos coast for far too long, not good with a terminal station!

[Phil S]

Concerning the  Auto-Reverser and Shorting Crossing problems - both of these (when compared to analogue historical usage) may appear 'worse' / more frequently with dcc because of the high-speed prrotective response of the DCC controller to the (potentially larger ) short circuit current tthan a single 1A analogue controller section.

AN ALTERNATIVE - NO SHORT design of Auto-Reverse Module IS available  - both ready made and in kit form - for currents from N/00.H0  to G Scale ( where the currents can be greater than 10A )  Massoth and LGB produce the ready made version for G (55-72GBP)

and LDT offer an N/00/H0 equivalent in kit OR ready made form - available direct from them, or via some dcc specialist dealers.

These N0-SHORT types use  short ( about 1 cm ) 'senser' sections AT EACH END of the Auto-reversing section - these DETECT the wrong-phase, and correct the auto reverse section before the train reaches it.   A Good solution to very fst response controllers 8-)

 

The CROSSING:  Is it a Peco type with a very thin insulated section between the 2 parts of the V ?     Have you used the recommended insulating fishplates beyond the Vs?   ......  To avoid needing a mechanical frog switch  to change the frog's phase from one rail to the other, a small neat Frog Juicer such as the Gaugemaster ???80 relay may solve the problem which will occure with Hornby steamroller wheels with all systems - and some other wheelsets too !

 

As for controllers: I suggest starting by replacing/adding to the Selects with another Expressnet handset - the Roco Multimaus available from 60-90GBP  .... if you later changed to another Expressnet-based system, such as the z21 (Roco/Fleischmann white starter) or Z21 (black - and with Loconet protocol and ther options added too ) ..  your investment in the Multimaus would nnot be lost - it is comfortable and can be used single handed    Z21.eu for info

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

...I need a system with three or more plug in handsets any recommendations?...

 

 Try Lenz. Bought their 100 system well over a dozen years ago, trouble free ever since, not a glitch, no software updates required, can expand to some very large number of add on handsets like the cheap Roco lokmaus, it just works with every decoder put on the tracks; and bear in mind I operate for hours every day I am home so it is had a real workout. Why tolerate all the mucking around of lesser systems? In terms of the base system it has now cost me under £20 a year: quality pays in the long run.

[devondynosoar118]

Powercab now supports 3 additional throttles in the last firmware update, which was some time ago so should be on any handset you would get sent from a shop.

[JST]

The Elite is indeed clunky to use. However, as soon as I bought Railmaster, the game changed and I find it easy to use via an old laptop I bought for £40 on eBay (Railmaster works well with Windows XP). You get the track plan and throttles on the same screen which makes points changing a doddle. Added to this you can run phones and tablets as walkabouts. I have two iPhones and an iPad and it all works swimmingly well. I was toying with idea of shelling out some dosh and upgrading to ECoS but in reality the Elite and Railmaster does everything I need.

[Peter Crawford]

NCE, ECoS (VERY EXPENSIVE) or Gaugemaster R-T-R wise, but you could make your own and customise it exactly how you want it with MERG kits.

[WIMorrison]

@Russ P - i did suggest that you would get as many opinions on what you need as there are systems on the market place

 

Might be best to stick wheer you are for now and draw up a list of what the new system MUST do, what it SHOULD do and what it COULD do, if you really want to you can also say what it WONT do.

 

That will help narrow down the plethora of choices to a few and then you can go and see them working to make sure you like the interface and controls - some look nice on paper but are terrible to use, others vice versa.

 

Making this choice isn't easy - and it can cost a lot of money if you get it wrong!