Hornby GWR clerestories

[steve howe]

Can anyone advise on the Hornby GWR clerestory coaches (not the good old ex. Triang things! the later Edwardian liveried versions) I am looking at a few on Ebay for potential up grading, but never having seen one in the flesh am wondering about their general accuracy, specifically, is the very nice looking panelled livery moulded or just printed? do they conform to any known diagram? and are they capable of being taken apart?

 

 

Any pointers greatly appreciated.

 

Steve

Edited May 25, 2018 by steve howe

[brian777999]

I have two of the coaches and one of the brake vans : the panelling and lining is real/moulded...it is not painted. I have been told previously that they are accurate but I will leave that to others to confirm or deny. I can get the bogies off (I am trying to fit Kadees) but I am not sure how the roof would come off.

 

What is it you intend to do when you say ''upgrade'' ?

Edited May 25, 2018 by brian777999

[jcm@gwr]

I have two of the coaches and one of the brake vans : the panelling and lining is real/moulded...it is not painted. I have been told previously that they are accurate but I will leave that to others to confirm or deny. I can get the bogies off (I am trying to fit Kadees) but I am not sure how the roof would come off.

 

What is it you intend to do when you say ''upgrade'' ?

 

That's interesting, all the ones I have are not moulded (except for the vents above the doors,

and the usual handles, etc). Certainly very flat compared to the original Tri-ang coaches. 

[Poor Old Bruce]

IIRC, the sides, ends and roof are a single moulding. I believe that etched overlay sides were available at one time (may still be, I dont really know).

[SRman]

I don't own any of these, but I have examined some in detail, and none had raised panelling detail, all were only printed on. Fine if you get the livery you want, but not so good for repainting.

[Siberian Snooper]

IIRC, the sides, ends and roof are a single moulding. I believe that etched overlay sides were available at one time (may still be, I dont really know).

Etches were available from 247 Developments, but since the change of ownership, Brian no longer keeps them. I don't think that they were part of the deal.

[brian777999]

My coaches and brake van came from a Flying Dutchman set. I have just double checked : definitely moulded panels.

[steve howe]

My coaches and brake van came from a Flying Dutchman set. I have just double checked : definitely moulded panels.

 

I think yours may be the older former Tri-ang coaches which were around for years in various guises and rather 'generic'. The later Hornby ones were specific diagrams I am told, but the panelling is printed. I will try and make some enquiries via the Scalefour forum about the 247 developments etches.

 

May be a long shot!

 

Steve

[81C]

Steve this might be of use to you.

 

http://www.gwr.org.uk/kits4rtrcoaches.html

 

Bob

[Coppercap]

My coaches and brake van came from a Flying Dutchman set. I have just double checked : definitely moulded panels.

The Flying Dutchman train pack (R2706) had the later, longer non-panelled coaches - these had printed panelling, except for the ends (which were separate mouldings BTW). It was the Lord of the Isles train pack (R2560) that had the older, shorter panelled coaches, and these were simply painted in chocolate and cream with no fine lining. Is your train pack boxed? If it is, it would confirm the correct coaches are of the later type, i.e. no moulded panelling - the shorter ones don't fit the box properly.

I've got all the recent Dean Single train packs too...

Edited May 26, 2018 by Coppercap

[DavidR]

I've got three of those illustrated and the panelling is printed on, not raised. The earlier Triang items were moulded, which appeared in later Hornby train packs, but they're much shorter.

[steve howe]

Steve this might be of use to you.

 

http://www.gwr.org.uk/kits4rtrcoaches.html

 

Bob

 

Thanks for that Bob, most useful. 

I suppose if these vehicles had been downgraded to branchline work by the early '30s some of them might have retained their earlier livery, I wonder how the printed panelling would stand up to scrutiny under a layer of weathering?

[cctransuk]

.... I wonder how the printed panelling would stand up to scrutiny under a layer of weathering?

 

I'm afraid that the trompe d'oeuil effect of the printed panels would be lost, and you'd end up with a weathered flush-panelled clerestory - looking rather odd !!

 

Such a pity that Hornby appear to have run out of money halfway through the toolmaking process.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

Edited May 26, 2018 by cctransuk

[brian777999]

I think yours may be the older former Tri-ang coaches which were around for years in various guises and rather 'generic'. The later Hornby ones were specific diagrams I am told, but the panelling is printed. I will try and make some enquiries via the Scalefour forum about the 247 developments etches.

 

May be a long shot!

 

Steve

 

No these are Hornby coaches. I have had many of them over the years. Run your finger along the sides and you can feel the raised panels ; they are not painted. These are not the shorter Triang coaches. I am a bit confused myself now !

Edited May 27, 2018 by brian777999

[sandwich station]

This is one of the Hornby coaches. I've tried to get a close up shot of it, so you can see that some of the detail is raised but the panel work is printed on.

 

[sandwich station]

Click on the pic and you can see it even better.

[sandwich station]

There are also Midland and LMS versions of these coaches. Below is the Midland version which is much easier to see that it is printed on. Again click on the image for a closer look.

 

[Brassey]

Thanks for that Bob, most useful. 

I suppose if these vehicles had been downgraded to branchline work by the early '30s some of them might have retained their earlier livery, I wonder how the printed panelling would stand up to scrutiny under a layer of weathering?

 

By which time the livery would be at least 23 years old; possible but highly unlikely to have survived that long.

[Coppercap]

There are also Midland and LMS versions of these coaches.

Midland yes, but there were no LMS versions.

[Coppercap]

No these are Hornby coaches. I have had many of them over the years. Run your finger along the sides and you can feel the raised panels ; they are not painted. These are not the shorter Triang coaches. I am a bit confused myself now !

Can you not SEE that there is no moulded panelling on the sides? As the above images show, the only moulded detail are the ventilators, door handles, hinges, bump stops and door 'gaps' (which should be grooves!). Only the ends have panelling detail.

Edited May 27, 2018 by Coppercap

[sandwich station]

Midland yes, but there were no LMS versions.

 

I stand corrected, it was the loco they were intended for that was released first in Midland Livery and later in LMS.

[Dick Turpin]

The printing is very good and does make them look OK. However, they are still a bit basic in my opinion otherwise. A 21st century replacement in the RTR world would be fantastic and really ring the changes for us pre-war types. Maybe clerestories aren't at the top of most people's list, and maybe they would be more problematic to tool up well. I dare say there are decent kits somewhere if you really want a few.

[brian777999]

The printing is very good and does make them look OK. However, they are still a bit basic in my opinion otherwise. A 21st century replacement in the RTR world would be fantastic and really ring the changes for us pre-war types. Maybe clerestories aren't at the top of most people's list, and maybe they would be more problematic to tool up well. I dare say there are decent kits somewhere if you really want a few.

 

Yes, there are decent kits but the problem (as with building model locomotives from kits) is giving them a good paint job.

 

My apologies, closer inspection has revealed that the yellow panels are painted, but on my (probably older) models the paint must have been applied in multiple layers. You can actually feel the panels raised above the surrounding surface which is why I thought they were moulded. It is much better done the photos in the examples above. 

[Dick Turpin]

There's a lovely picture in Steve Banks's book, LNER Trains and Formations of the Port to Ports on the Great Central in the '30s, headed by a GCR B1. The train is a fair mixture, with what looks to me like mainly Collets, a couple of clerestories, and a toplight. That must have been a sight to watch go past, and I'd love to try to approximate it one day; we have the Collets, the B1 could just as easily have been a GNR C1, I expect we might just see some toplights produced before long - if we're lucky, so I'd just need a couple of clerestories. I looked at these a couple of years back and decided they didn't stand up too well against the Collets being the amazing models that they are. It's a shame, but if anyone has made a good job of upgrading these Hornby ones I'd love to see what can be done.

 

I couldn't agree more about the paint finish issues on kit built stuff Brian, especially with coach panels. At least by the 1930s the Great Western had simplified the livery somewhat, although that still doesn't diminish the task much IMO.

[sandwich station]

My apologies, closer inspection has revealed that the yellow panels are painted, but on my (probably older) models the paint must have been applied in multiple layers. You can actually feel the panels raised above the surrounding surface which is why I thought they were moulded. It is much better done the photos in the examples above. 

 

The GWR picture is of the first brake coach made by Hornby R123 in 1982-84

 

The Midland coach was also made around that time in 1983-84 no R453