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Andrew Barclay Fireless (4mm scratchbuild)





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#1 Ruston

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Posted 03 June 2018 - 18:59

Following on from the "Show us your Barclays" topic I have decided to have a go at building a fireless loco. It will be the most basic, and probably the most common, of Andrew Barclay's designs, a small 0-4-0.

 

The only working Fireless loco in the UK, seen at the Ayrshire Railway Preservation Group's line at Dunaskin, in 2016. I had never seen a working fireless loco before and it was very odd to see this loco parked up in the loop, completely silent. There was no hissing of steam and obviously no engine running so I wondered if it was running and not just parked up for show until the driver climbed into the cab, rang the bell and opened the regulator. It was very quiet in action, too, with none of the usual exhaust of a normal steam loco.

 

Waterside-008.jpg

 

Waterside-063.jpg

 

Waterside-018.jpg

 

Drawing in progress.

 

Fireless-001.jpg

 


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#2 br2975

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Posted 03 June 2018 - 19:50

Old fashioned draughting.....board, travelling motion and square......and a love of tireless locos,
we must be a dying breed ?
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#3 Isambarduk

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Posted 04 June 2018 - 08:31

I made this dimensioned sketch for 7mm scale from measuring up a 12" scale one, if it's of any help.

 

AB_CalderstonesWheel.jpg

 

I also have a scan of the simple outline side and end elevations on page 85 of the paperback book 'Fireless Locomotives (Locomotion Papers, number 97)' by Allan Baker and Allen Civil, The Oakwood Press, 1976, which I could send if you do not have access to the book (better not just post it here)

 

David


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#4 Ruston

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Posted 04 June 2018 - 14:59

Thanks for the wheel drawing, David. I'm not sure that I can make something like that but I have some salvaged L&Y Pug wheels, where the tyres are loose, so may have a go at making some centres for them. I already have the book, thanks.


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#5 Gordon A

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Posted 04 June 2018 - 15:06

The Manchester railway museum had a fireless loco fitted with an air compressor in the cab as a shunter.

 

Gordon A



#6 5050

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Posted 04 June 2018 - 17:38

Oooo, looking forward to this!  The dome appears reasonably simple in shape for turning.  Where is the steam inlet valve etc.?  They're normally found at the front so I thought.



#7 Ruston

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Posted 04 June 2018 - 18:12

Oooo, looking forward to this!  The dome appears reasonably simple in shape for turning.  Where is the steam inlet valve etc.?  They're normally found at the front so I thought.

Some were at the front and some were on the side, as in the loco in my photos. You can see the valve wheel in the last photo.Are castings of such valves and wheels available, or is it a turning or even fabrication from bits of tube job?

 

Regarding the "boiler",  or Steam Reservoir, as I mentioned in the other thread, turned ends on pipe, or rather 20mm dia. brass tube if such a thing exists. 20mm diameter, whatever...

 

As you work in P4, and I work to OO, I am going to plan the frame patterns to have spacers for both, with adjustment to the cylinder block and motion bracket(s) to suit but when it comes to clearances between the crosshead and wheel, I have no idea how that's going to work in P4. I have trouble enough fitting that stuff in in OO. The P4 version will probably need rods that are not as deep as I usually make them, for one thing...

 

Your mission, should you choose to accept it, will be to make turnings for the domes, reservoir ends, cylinder blind ends, exhausts and bells. This tape will self-destruct in 30 seconds. :bomb_mini:



#8 5050

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Posted 04 June 2018 - 20:35

BOOOMMM!



#9 Enterprisingwestern

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Posted 04 June 2018 - 20:47

Following on from the "Show us your Barclays" topic I have decided to have a go at building a fireless loco. It will be the most basic, and probably the most common, of Andrew Barclay's designs, a small 0-4-0.

 

The only working Fireless loco in the UK, seen at the Ayrshire Railway Preservation Group's line at Dunaskin, in 2016. I had never seen a working fireless loco before and it was very odd to see this loco parked up in the loop, completely silent. There was no hissing of steam and obviously no engine running so I wondered if it was running and not just parked up for show until the driver climbed into the cab, rang the bell and opened the regulator. It was very quiet in action, too, with none of the usual exhaust of a normal steam loco.

 

attachicon.gifWaterside-008.jpg

 

attachicon.gifWaterside-063.jpg

 

attachicon.gifWaterside-018.jpg

 

Drawing in progress.

 

attachicon.gifFireless-001.jpg

 

PAD, a dying art!

 

Mike.



#10 Ruston

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Posted 04 June 2018 - 20:57

BOOOMMM!

Just in case you didn't survive the explosion, I hope you left your lathe and flycutter to me in your will :rtfm:


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#11 Ruston

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 19:24

I did a little more on the drawings but working from a tiny drawing in a book can only take you so far, so a site visit was called for and I went to take some detail shots of the NRM's AB fireless, at Shildon...

 

Barclay-Fireless-019.jpg

 

Barclay-Fireless-023.jpg

 

Detail differences from the working example include block buffers and the charging valve being at the front of the reservoir. If anyone has photos of other Barclay fireless of this type, please feel free to post them.


Edited by Ruston, 13 June 2018 - 19:24 .

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#12 Ruston

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 19:38

This one is of interest.

ABf.jpg

From here: https://commons.wiki...3638863263).jpg

 

It has a water tank on the left and the small box, next to the cab, at this side will contain a pressure reducing valve. Not all had this and I couldn't get around the other side of the NRM's loco to see if it has one, or what the cover looks like.


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#13 Sir Hadyn

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 21:25

Shot of the other side of Imperial No.1 here Dave, hope you & John had a good day

http://collection.sc...team-locomotive



#14 5050

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 21:55

Shot of the other side of Imperial No.1 here Dave, hope you & John had a good day

http://collection.sc...team-locomotive

John? Who's John?  It wuz me, not John.

 

But I know who you mean :locomotive:



#15 Sir Hadyn

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Posted 14 June 2018 - 09:12

Ah, sorry 5050, when I last saw Farmer John, he suggested to me that he'd be going up too!

Hope you had a good day, I was at Mother Ship.

If you want a more in-depth look, just shout and I'll get it sorted.


Edited by Sir Hadyn, 14 June 2018 - 09:12 .


#16 PGH

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Posted 14 June 2018 - 11:37

If anyone has photos of other Barclay fireless of this type, please feel free to post them.

 

 

1562.9208B © PGH.jpg

 

Andrew Barclay 1562 of 1917 at the Chasewater Railway in 1967.

ex W.M.Crawford & Sons Ltd. Liverpool (the biscuit makers) for "preservation", but it was scrapped in 1973.

(Nice to see that the Ayrshire Group have restored theirs into working order)

 

 

1548.13927B © PGH.jpg

 

1548.13928B © PGH.jpg

 

Andrew Barclay 1548 of 1917 at Burmah Oil Trading Ltd., Stanlow in June 1971.

It was scrapped shortly after.

 

The following three photos were taken slightly earlier and are from very 'grainy' negatives.  However they do show other views which might be useful and a side on elevation.  Note this loco had wooden brake shoes.

 

1548.13708B © PGH.jpg

 

1548.13707B © PGH.jpg

 

1548.13706B © PGH.jpg

 

Unfortunately some idiot has parked their Cortina GT behind the loco so that it clashes with the front of  the frames in this view !

Oh - hang  on, what was I driving then ?


Edited by PGH, 15 June 2018 - 08:53 .

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#17 PGH

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Posted 14 June 2018 - 11:41

AB 1950 Ribble Steam Railway © PGH.jpg

 

Andrew Barclay 1950 of 1928 at the Ribble Steam Railway, Preston

 

 

AB 1950 plate  © PGH.jpg


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#18 Ruston

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Posted 14 June 2018 - 15:13

Thanks for posting the photos, Philip. The black and white shots are obviously of the earlier style of cab but if the other main dimensions are the same as the later type I could make alternative cab parts. The problem is that I don't have a drawing, or a prototype to measure and, judging from your photos, the earlier ones look to be a little longer.

 

I have found this one, from an AB publicity shot, that appears to have the same cab profile and overall proportions as the later types but which has the curved cab aperture and the sloping front lower frame.

AB_unknown.jpg

 

It's like anything once you start to look at a particular type of industrial loco that you find so many detail differences when you start to look closely and then wonder if they are in-service modifications, or did they leave the factory like that. If they were built like that it then turns into trying to establish a timeline for when a particular difference began to appear.

 

 


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#19 Ruston

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Posted 14 June 2018 - 15:36

Ah, sorry 5050, when I last saw Farmer John, he suggested to me that he'd be going up too!

Hope you had a good day, I was at Mother Ship.

If you want a more in-depth look, just shout and I'll get it sorted.

John was going with me when we thought that the fireless was at York as I think he wants to run a tape measure over the Black Hawthorn, Bauxite No.2.



#20 5050

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Posted 14 June 2018 - 17:03

Well, 'construction' has started!  In an idle few (!) moments this afternoon I decided to fire up the lathe and have a go at the dome.  Dave gave me an 8mm/ft drawing so by the application of schoolboy mathematics (ie divide by 2) I 'calculated' its general dimensions.  The shape was 'roughed' out in 1/2" brass bar and the basic shape turned in 'the usual manner'.  I then needed to cut the curved shape to fit the boiler (20mm diam.) and for this task I used my (relatively) recently fabricated fly cutting tool.  The turned section was held in the machine vice mounted on the cross slide, the fly cutter tool set to 10mm to cut a 20mm circle and with light cuts I gradually cut into the base of the dome until the curve filled the whole diameter..  I now need to drill and tap the base so that I can mount it on a mandrel of sorts to enable me to hold it securely for filing the radius around the base so that it will 'flare' into the boiler.  I have noticed that the domes on the various Barclay locos I've viewed seem to have a variety of shapes for the edge between the vertical side and horizontal top.  Earlier ones are quite radiused but the later ones are a much 'tighter' curvature which is easier to replicate (by filing!) so this is how I have done it.  There is also a centre-pop in the top to locate what I presume is a safety valve in due course.  Next job will be turning the domed reservoir end.

 

Barclay Fireless Dome.A.jpg

 

Barclay Fireless Dome.1.A.jpg

 

Barclay Fireless Dome.2.A..jpg

 

No idea what the blue tint is.  It doesn't show in real life!

 

The idea is to have the dome and reservoir ends cast so that replication is easier.


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#21 Ruston

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Posted 14 June 2018 - 20:32

mr-burns-simpsons.jpg


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#22 avonside1563

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Posted 15 June 2018 - 11:33

The Manchester railway museum had a fireless loco fitted with an air compressor in the cab as a shunter.

 

Gordon A

The air compressor was purely for the brakes on the vehicles they were using as passenger stock. The loco was charged off the steam supply to the engines in the power house.



#23 Sandhole

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Posted 15 June 2018 - 12:30

Out of curiosity I wondered how many fireless locos still survive, so the following list is from the Industrial Railway Society's Handbook 15EL.  This was published in 2009 so the information may not be up to date, but hopefully the locos listed are still with us.

The majority are Andrew Barclay 0-4-0s but I've included other makes and 0-6-0s for completeness.

 

0-4-0F

 

Quainton Railway Society

            –                                  Andrew Barclay            1477            1916

            LAPORTE                    Andrew Barclay            2243            1948

 

Bodmin & Wenford Railway

            –                                  Bagnall           3121            1957

 

Midland Railway, Butterley

            No.2            PN 8292            Andrew Barclay            2008            1935

 

Darlington Railway Preservation Society

            PATONS                   Bagnall           2898            1948

 

National Waterways Museum, Gloucester

            –                                  Andrew Barclay            2126            1942

 

Sittingbourne & Kemsley Light Railway

            –                                  Andrew Barclay            1876            1925

(They also have the 2'-6" gauge 2-4-0 fireless loco UNIQUE)

 

The Ribble Steam Railway

            No.2                            Andrew Barclay            1950            1928

 

The West Coast Railway Company, Carnforth

            GLAXO                     Andrew Barclay            2268            1949

 

Leicestershire County Council, Snibston Discovery Park
            No.2                            Andrew Barclay            1815            1924

 

Salford City Council, Irlam

            1                                  Peckett          2155            1955

 

Bressingham  Museum

            ROBERT KETT            Andrew Barclay            1472            1916

 

Telford  Steam  Railway
            –                                  Andrew Barclay            1944            1927  

 

Cholsey & Wallingford Railway

            –                                  Bagnall           2473            1932

 

Foxfield  Railway

            –                                  Andrew Barclay            1984            1930

 

 

National Railway Museum, Shildon

            IMPERIAL No.1            Andrew Barclay            2373            1956

 

Ayrshire Railway Preservation Group, Dalmellington

            –                                  Andrew Barclay            1952            1928

 

Swansea Industrial & Maritime Museum
            SIR CHARLES            Andrew Barclay            1473            1916  

 

National Museum Of Wales, Collections Centre, Nantgarw

            52/001                      Andrew Barclay            1966            1929  

            –                                  Andrew Barclay            2238            1948

 

In private collection

            No.35                          Robert Stephenson Hawthorns            7803            1954

 

           

0-6-0F

 

Bo'ness & Kinneil Railway

            LORD ASHFIELD            Andrew Barclay            1989            1930

 

Glasgow City Council, Museum Of Transport

            No.1                            Andrew Barclay            1571            1917

 

Lakeside & Haverthwaite Railway

            –                                  Andrew Barclay            1550            1917

 

The West Coast Railway Company, Carnforth

            No.1 LANCASTER            Andrew Barclay            1572            1917

 

Tanfield Railway, Marley Hill

            –                                  Hawthorn Leslie            3746            1929

 

In private collections

            2370                           Bagnall           2370            1929

            –                                 Bagnall            3019          1952

Quainton Road put Laporte in 'steam' in the '80s.

They charged it off the North British 0-6-0 Coventry No1.

There was, also a restored Laporte wagon for it to pull.

Unfortunately I haven't had a chance to get to Quainton in a good many years so I don't know what state she is in now.

                                          C.



#24 5050

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Posted 15 June 2018 - 12:59

A bit of progress this morning.  I drilled and tapped the base 8BA and screwed in a length of studding, held it in a pin chuck and set about the base with a selection of needle files and worn/fine wet and dry.  I can't say I'm totally happy with the result - but it is the first time I've done this so please be gentle with me  I think there is some scope for a bit more shaping to try and get a more curved flare.  What do you reckon Dave?  I'm a bit wary about damaging the vertical sides by being to enthusiastic!

 

Barclay Fireless Dome 3.A.jpg


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#25 Isambarduk

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Posted 15 June 2018 - 14:16

I did mine this way, 5050, but in aluminium, which made it a bit easier going.  The only thing that I did differently was to use a round nosed tool to put in the flare for the fore and aft parts of the dome, so that it was easier to bring that curve round to the sides.  I would say that you're doing well but that you need to press on and smooth out those slightly kinky curves, taking just a little at a time - it would be worth giving it a quick spray with grey paint to monitor progress and to see the real effect of not having smooth contours.   David


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