Brass models

[jjb1970]

How many other RMWeb users collect brass models?

 

This is my weakness and model poison, I collect brass HO models, primarily North American diesel locomotives. I like factory painted or pro custom painted models from suppliers like Overland Models, manufactured by Ajin. There was always an honesty about US brass importers in that they described themselves as importers and were very open about the fact that manufacture was done by somebody else (companies such as Ajin, Samhongsa, Microcast Mizuno, Fujiyama, Boo Rim etc) which is basically the standard for most RTR models these days. The European HO brass suppliers were a lot less open about their use of the same Asian manufacturers (eg. companies such as Lemaco, Fulgurex).

 

Buying new brass is a hobby for those with deep pockets but I tend to buy S/H and it is amazing just what bargains you can find if you are patient and keep an ear to the ground. Most brass models are pretty much like new as they spend most of their life either in the box or in a display unit, I've yet to buy a dud. There is something beautiful about the finish of brass models, the paint has a wonderfully deep semi-gloss satin lustre which for some reason plastic RTR just can't match. And the fact that the under frames and bogies match the body finish makes a big difference. Buying brass S/H is still not a "cheap" hobby, but it is not as pricey as people might think.

 

Surely I'm not the only one with this addiction? I've found that once you get a taste for brass nothing else is quite the same.

[sncf231e]

 I've found that once you get a taste for brass nothing else is quite the same.

 

I do also collect brass models (American and European (only steam outline locomotives)), but I also do like and do collect models and toys of other material. 

 

Recently some of the older brass models can be got at a bargain price; recent brass is still very expensive in my view.

I have made a video presenting some of my American brass models: https://youtu.be/QI-mpwhtpw0

 

Regards

Fred

[5050]

As a lad, I remember lusting after the brass locos and stock that were advertised in the Modeller by John Underhill in Reading in the late 50's (early 60's?).  In those days they were extremely 'exotic' and I do wonder how many were actually sold in the UK given the relatively high prices that were asked.  The Max Gray O scale locos were possibly the most exotic.  I did try and persuade my Dad that he should buy one as an investment but to no avail.  60 years later I think I might have been right.

[jjb1970]

funnily enough a lot of the older brass kettle models run a lot better than newer ones even though they have open frame motors and lack the high end motors and trick features of more modern brass steam locomotive models. At one time brass models were a part of the mainstream North American hobby, an expensive and high end part but nevertheless companies like PFM published catalogues and imported models in substantial numbers which were intended to be used on layouts. In the 80's the levels of details went North but so did prices and production runs were shrinking and the extreme detail made running some brass models problematic as all the brake rigging and chassis detail was a short circuit magnet and the valve gear could be quite prone to distortion if handled as it was so fine (although I think some plastic RTR can suffer from that too).

 

Nowadays new brass production is less than a niche within a niche and production numbers are trivial. Numbers of particular versions are often in single figures although total production for a given type will be higher. My last purchase was a late run (2005) Overland SD45T-2 in SSW/Cotton Belt colours and it is one of ten but one of four different versions. Several of my models are numbered in runs of between ten and twenty. Compare that with the 60's and 70's where although importers like PFM and Westside were hardly high volume sellers they routinely produced runs in three figures and regular re-runs.

 

On the investment side of things, I'd be lying if I denied that it isn't quite nice to know some of my models are worth a few quid but it's really not why I collect and most of my brass has been picked up at relatively modest cost.

[GoingUnderground]

Do I hanker after brass models? I did once rather fancy an Overland Models H0 GF6C, but the price was just too high to have it as a static model. But a beautiful loco none the less.

[jjb1970]

Here are a few items on display on my lounge wall at the moment.

 

A trio of CSX GE beasts, a C30-7, AC60CW and AC44CW. A nice CN SD50F, a bit of a rare one as I believe CN were the only customer for the SD50F and not many were made, it has the "Draper taper" cowl body. Two of my favourites, a Chessie B30-7 and a GP40-2. Then two BN white face models, another C30-7 and an SD60M.

[Talltim]

I’ve got a few brass models, but only because that’s the only RTR option for the locos. It actually annoys me that brass retains its value, cos the older models aren’t that well detailed, often aren’t painted and still cost as much or more as nice modern plastic RTR

[CKPR]

I wouldn't say I was a collector  of HO brass but since my North American interests run to logging lines and interurbans, I've ended up buying a handful of S/H brass engines (Sudyam, Westside & NWSL) as the motive power for my projects.

Edited June 16, 2018 by CKPR

[Bon Accord]

I must say I also collect brass (and the odd whitemetal) model, these being exclusively of Scottish pre grouping locos. A couple of recent acquisitions being a PDK D30 and D34 and very fine they are too.

[NCB]

Does Broadway Ltd Brass-Hybrid series count as brass? I've been staring at one of their Great Northern S2 class 4-8-4 locos; magnificent! Don't have the layout to do it justice, but tempting all the same!

 

http://www.broadway-limited.com/2870GNS24-8-42579withopencabGlacierParkwithSound/DC/DCCHO.aspx

[jjb1970]

Does Broadway Ltd Brass-Hybrid series count as brass? I've been staring at one of their Great Northern S2 class 4-8-4 locos; magnificent! Don't have the layout to do it justice, but tempting all the same!

 

http://www.broadway-limited.com/2870GNS24-8-42579withopencabGlacierParkwithSound/DC/DCCHO.aspx

 

I'd certainly count them as Brass, and mighty fine models they are! I have the New Haven I5 and it's a beauty, in fact the idea of marrying a brass body to a diecast chassis is in some ways an ideal solution to getting the detail and finish of brass with the reliable and robust running of regular RTR models.

 

When Dapol announced their Black Edition A4, as much as I welcomed the venture I couldn't help feeling it'd have been nicer if they'd introduced it as a brass hybrid instead.

[Allegheny1600]

My first brass model was a rather old model of a Chesapeake & Ohio T1 2-10-4. It looked lovely but ran like a dog with three hind legs, mostly because that long rigid wheelbase had become banana shaped! It was sold a long time ago when the Broadway version came out which was a much better runner.

 

I'd certainly count them as Brass, and mighty fine models they are! I have the New Haven I5 and it's a beauty, in fact the idea of marrying a brass body to a diecast chassis is in some ways an ideal solution to getting the detail and finish of brass with the reliable and robust running of regular RTR models.

You lucky thing!

Around the time these were announced, I had largely deserted the C&O in favour of the New Haven and lusted for one, I thought it was stunning. Sadly by the time it was in the stores, I had moved on again and gone all European.

 

Micro Metakit Bavarian G5/5

 

Complete with working inside motion.

 

Although it ran beautifully, this was rather too large and unwieldy for my current layout which has moved on from Bavaria to Prussia, so now I prefer smaller machines like this;

Wienert KPEV T13 - brass, n/s & whitemetal - does that still count?

Cheers,

John.

[jjb1970]

My first brass model was a rather old model of a Chesapeake & Ohio T1 2-10-4. It looked lovely but ran like a dog with three hind legs, mostly because that long rigid wheelbase had become banana shaped! It was sold a long time ago when the Broadway version came out which was a much better runner.

 

You lucky thing!

Around the time these were announced, I had largely deserted the C&O in favour of the New Haven and lusted for one, I thought it was stunning. Sadly by the time it was in the stores, I had moved on again and gone all European.

 

Micro Metakit Bavarian G5/5

 

Complete with working inside motion.

 

Although it ran beautifully, this was rather too large and unwieldy for my current layout which has moved on from Bavaria to Prussia, so now I prefer smaller machines like this;

Wienert KPEV T13 - brass, n/s & whitemetal - does that still count?

Cheers,

John.

 

Terrific!! Mot of my brass is D&E but in many ways brass steamers are the ultimate expression of brass modelling.

 

I would like a Westside Models NYC Hudson, made by Microcast Mizuno in the mid 70's the WMC Hudson's were pretty much a high watermark for Japanese brass. Even after over 40 years they remain superb, very solid and heavy models with detail and quality which has stood the test of time remarkably well. The brasstrains.com website often has good examples for sale (always worth drooling on that site....), they have a nice example for sale now:

 

https://brasstrains.com/Classic/Product/Detail/078665/HO-Brass-Model-Train-WMC-Westside-NYC-4-6-4-J-1e-Hudson-5280-Craftsman-Series-2-Custom

[Allegheny1600]

Terrific!! Mot of my brass is D&E but in many ways brass steamers are the ultimate expression of brass modelling.

 

I would like a Westside Models NYC Hudson, made by Microcast Mizuno in the mid 70's the WMC Hudson's were pretty much a high watermark for Japanese brass. Even after over 40 years they remain superb, very solid and heavy models with detail and quality which has stood the test of time remarkably well. The brasstrains.com website often has good examples for sale (always worth drooling on that site....), they have a nice example for sale now:

 

https://brasstrains.com/Classic/Product/Detail/078665/HO-Brass-Model-Train-WMC-Westside-NYC-4-6-4-J-1e-Hudson-5280-Craftsman-Series-2-Custom

Thanks, buddy!

Yes, that site is superb, I like how they sort everything by roadname (I suppose most decent sellers do but theirs works well). Apparently - one of my books on the Texas & Pacific is worth $195, according to them!?! Ha! I should be so lucky. I have a couple of unpainted T&P locos on eBay but their value appears to have plummeted now, boo-hoo.

That WMC J-1e is very sweet indeed.

Cheers,

John.

[alfsboy]

I still buy the odd piece of US brass that crops up on ebay ..if its cheap enough .I like the early PFM brass  as its bullet proof  . I remotor and usually install  a new  NWSL gearbox and then DCC them . i have painted and weathered hundreds of brass for Victors  and others way back when but didnt keep any myself .I like mainly SP but have just bought a PFM 2-6-2 Long Bell Lumber  tender loco .I have just remotored and regeared it and it now needs a repaint .I will post some shots .

Edited June 21, 2018 by alfsboy

[jjb1970]

Thanks, buddy!

Yes, that site is superb, I like how they sort everything by roadname (I suppose most decent sellers do but theirs works well). Apparently - one of my books on the Texas & Pacific is worth $195, according to them!?! Ha! I should be so lucky. I have a couple of unpainted T&P locos on eBay but their value appears to have plummeted now, boo-hoo.

That WMC J-1e is very sweet indeed.

Cheers,

John.

 

Braastrains.com is a fantastic site but some of their prices are high, some brass enthusiasts call the owner "high dollar dan". That said I've bought quite a few items from them where they offered fair prices (they're one of those shops that offer a model at a truly rip off price and then list something at a bargain price the next minute, definitely worth watching what they list as you do find some good items at decent prices) and customer service was excellent.

[Staffordshire]

  A photo of a Samhongsa GWR 97xx ......

 

  I believe this particular model was only produced in small numbers ?

[jjb1970]

Pretty much anything made by Samhongsa was made in relatively low numbers, towards the end some of the models they were making for US importers were struggling to make it into two figures. Samhongsa and Ajin (also of South Korea) were basically the pre-eminent builders of brass models for about a twenty year period from the mid 80's on when the old Japanese builders faded away. They also supplied most of the European brass model train companies, although unlike the US importers it was always much less obvious that their Eurpean equivalents were also commissioning their production from established brass builders in Korea and Japan.

 

My latest arrived today, a 2003 run Overland Rio Grande SD40T-2, factory painted, beautiful!! Not cheap, but paying just over twice the price of the Scale Trains equivalent I'd much rather have the Overland version.

Edited February 7, 2019 by jjb1970

[Bon Accord]

I'm wondering if Samhongsa was the company that did a very limited run of some NZR Ka class 4-8-4s some years ago in S gauge (running on HO track to suit 3'6" gauge)? I've been keeping an eye out for one for years but no luck as yet.

[jjb1970]

I don't know about any S Gauge NZR models, but if they were made between after the late 70's it is quite likely that they were made by Samhongsa. They made models for most of the great brass companies at some point with the possible exception of Overland who had a long term relationship with Ajin almost from their beginning. If you want brass models it is generally a question of waiting, they do appear second hand, even really rare and obscure (even for brass) models do turn up if you wait long enough.

[robmcg]

On 08/02/2019 at 11:26, Bon Accord said:

I'm wondering if Samhongsa was the company that did a very limited run of some NZR Ka class 4-8-4s some years ago in S gauge (running on HO track to suit 3'6" gauge)? I've been keeping an eye out for one for years but no luck as yet.

 

Ajin made a series of brass K and Kas in S gauge I think about 1990 , a few hundred maximum I think and you could specify running number and relevant individual details, I think they were about $1,000 nz even then,  I bought one for $1,800 a few years ago. Since sold.

 

Other NZ prototypes, Ja , A,  Ab, Bb even Uc and so on, Ww, Wab, X, I have seen all from  time to time for sale, especially As and Abs but I forget the names of the makers, usually NZ firms, and pretty rare on the s/h market.   'TradeMe' nz auction site is where I look, there is a NZ Railway Modeller's Guild who will know more. 

 

here is 'my' Ajin Ka...

 

 

Also the same model on a background of Paekakariki.. 24 miles from Wellington where the Kas took over te Auckland expresses from EE electrics.

 

Edited February 9, 2019 by robmcg

[robmcg]

on the subject of other brass models I have owned (I forget the maker) I had a couple of A and Ab engines of the type I recall from my youth and which my grandfather drove.

 

Here is a 601 also at Paekakariki in 1958.

 

 

This pic based on a photo my older brother took with an Agfa Clack camera...  and apparently the headlight mounting detail is wrong, 601 also had brass edging trim to driving wheel splashers, and a spark arrester,   you can't win you know!  

[Rhys]

On 10/02/2019 at 09:31, robmcg said:

 

Ajin made a series of brass K and Kas in S gauge I think about 1990 , a few hundred maximum I think and you could specify running number and relevant individual details, I think they were about $1,000 nz even then,  I bought one for $1,800 a few years ago. Since sold.

 

From my recolections, there were 100 models made, and I think only one of each number plus some spares. I recall seeing a list somewhere of the names of the orginalowners (but can't recall where, might have meen the NZMRJ). the only other brass model made was a 30' guards van, which was a run of 200 pieces.

 

On 10/02/2019 at 09:31, robmcg said:

 

Other NZ prototypes, Ja , A,  Ab, Bb even Uc and so on, Ww, Wab, X, I have seen all from  time to time for sale, especially As and Abs but I forget the names of the makers, usually NZ firms, and pretty rare on the s/h market.   'TradeMe' nz auction site is where I look, there is a NZ Railway Modeller's Guild who will know more. 

 

 

These are all from locally made kits (either etched brass or white metal).

 

[robmcg]

8 hours ago, Rhys said:

 

From my recolections, there were 100 models made, and I think only one of each number plus some spares. I recall seeing a list somewhere of the names of the orginalowners (but can't recall where, might have meen the NZMRJ). the only other brass model made was a 30' guards van, which was a run of 200 pieces.

 

 

These are all from locally made kits (either etched brass or white metal).

 

 

Ah, I stand corrected, I had thought some were sold fully assembled and painted in NZ albeit by NZ manufacturers.

 

Best, 

[robmcg]

On 21/06/2018 at 08:23, jjb1970 said:

 

Terrific!! Mot of my brass is D&E but in many ways brass steamers are the ultimate expression of brass modelling.

 

I would like a Westside Models NYC Hudson, made by Microcast Mizuno in the mid 70's the WMC Hudson's were pretty much a high watermark for Japanese brass. Even after over 40 years they remain superb, very solid and heavy models with detail and quality which has stood the test of time remarkably well. The brasstrains.com website often has good examples for sale (always worth drooling on that site....), they have a nice example for sale now:

 

https://brasstrains.com/Classic/Product/Detail/078665/HO-Brass-Model-Train-WMC-Westside-NYC-4-6-4-J-1e-Hudson-5280-Craftsman-Series-2-Custom

 

In response to your earlier post recently and this one I have looked at the Westside  / Microcraft Mizuno models and they are indeed superb examples of the art.

 

I was spoiled when I was young, my father was in publicity of New Zealand Railways (T A McGavin) and for many years his office had a wall of Gauge 1 brass models made by Frank Roberts.  At the time I was into Kitmaster myself.    But I agree the Westside and also Brass Hybrids mentioned are superb models!

 

Here is one of those aforementioned brass hybrids,a UP 3-cylinder 4-12-2 which presaged the UP Challenger... slightly edited

 

Edited February 14, 2019 by robmcg
Frank Roberts not Frank Wright