Peco Finescale Electrofrog Short Crossing (Wiring Help)

[Blue13]

Hi hoping someone can help with the frog wiring on the Peco  finescale electrofrog short crossing.

 

I've got the double slip wired up ok but can't get my head around the crossing.

 

I'm using Tortoise motors to switch the frog polarity. I've also used insulated joiners on all the rails.

 

I have read a few threads on here and looked on the Brian Lambert site but still no luck.

 

Excuse the mess.....double slip is fixed down, the crossing and Y point not fixed down yet,

 

Thanks for any advice. (I have posted in the non DCC section but the layout is DCC)

 

 

[phixer64]

Hi, as everyone normally tell people to go here, heres the place, Brian Lamberts website

 

http://www.brian-lambert.co.uk

 

Regards Jeff

 

[Blue13]

Thanks for the link phixer64 and as I say I've been on Brian's site but still couldn't get it wired up to work.

 

Hoping someone could advise about the frog switching using Tortoise motors....should they be from the Y point or the Double Slip etc.

[DCB]

Double slips are a doddle to wire up and it makes an awful lot of sense to use double slips in preference to a diamond crossing on DC.

 

Crossings short and long are dead simple in insulfrog, no real wiring needed just leave the isolated fish plates off.

 

Live frog crossings are more difficult, in DCC just use frog juicers, but DC needs switches or relays. .

 

Crossings come in two and four frog  versions depending if they have isolators at mid point on the outer rails (Peco) or not (Full Live Frog)   Both  need relays or multi pole switches, the four frog need four pole switches or relays the two two pole.

 

The problem is authority. Generally you need a switch to operate the frogs.

 

Brian Lambert's web site is very good but I can't find anything about authority on there.    The authority comes in where both roads leading to the crossing are set.  Which one takes preference?    This is a layout specific issue and one would need a track plan and an idea of how it is operated to understand. If the layoit is signalled and interlocked its no issue but for most people a simple switch on the panel is much easier than trying to operate it with point motor switches. 

Edited July 1, 2018 by DavidCBroad

[John ks]

Use the tortoise that moves the point to control the polarity of the crossing & the point

 

When the point is curved the diamond's polarity will be correct for travel from the from the slip through the diamond

 

Trains shouldn't enter the diamond from the left until the point is set to straight otherwise a short will occur 

Trains shouldn't enter the diamond from the slip until the point is set to curved otherwise a short will occur 

 

it is necessary for the point, slip & diamond to be in the same electrical block

 

Insulated rail joiners are required on all rails of the diamond

 

 

Hope this helps 

 

John

 

[Blue13]

Many thanks for your replies it's much appreciated.

 

I did have some joy earlier switching frog polarity taken off the double slip but only tested in one direction so not sure if it will work when the rest of the track is laid.

 

Appreciate the diagram John so you reckon it's best to take the polarity switching off the  Y point?

 

Cheers Ian.

[kevinlms]

Definitely use the point to control the diamond. Remember, that if you insist on using the diamond, any switching needs to be in relation to the FAR END point motor. 

 

Sorry if stating the obvious, but...

[Blue13]

Definitely use the point to control the diamond. Remember, that if you insist on using the diamond, any switching needs to be in relation to the FAR END point motor. 

 

Sorry if stating the obvious, but...

You mean the Y point (as shown by John) not the double slip?

[Grovenor]

You mean the Y point (as shown by John) not the double slip?

 

You can use either the double slip or the point, the circuits are just mirror images. just pick one, you may as well use the circuit already provided rather than waste time/effort redoing it.

You can alternatively switch one of the diamond frogs with the point and one with the slip, saves a contact if that matters but since a tortoise has two contact sets you may as well go with the diagram given above.

Regards

 

[Blue13]

You can use either the double slip or the point, the circuits are just mirror images. just pick one, you may as well use the circuit already provided rather than waste time/effort redoing it.

You can alternatively switch one of the diamond frogs with the point and one with the slip, saves a contact if that matters but since a tortoise has two contact sets you may as well go with the diagram given above.

Regards

 

Nice one thank you.

[Blue13]

Finally got round to wiring the crossover up and it appears to be working fine with the only loco giving a few problems being the Hornby 08.......the Bachmann 08"s crawl through.

 

So many thanks for all the help it was much appreciated.

 

Cheers Ian.

[newbryford]

 

 

Live frog crossings are more difficult, in DCC just use frog juicers, but DC needs switches or relays. .

 

 

 

. Generally you need a switch to operate the frogs.

 

 

 

DCC will also work (very well) with switches.......

 

The OP has plenty of switches available if he's using Tortoise motors, so no need for the expense of frog juicers.

 

Cheers,

Mick