Castle Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 Hi All, I have always harboured an ambition to add to the Little Didcot collection, the engines that were used as spares sources or the basis for conversions to construct some of the new build engines such as Nos. 1014, 4709 and 2999. A bargain 52XX a while back means that No. 5227 is already in the fleet. There is always room for more Halls, a 5101 and a 28XX in a GWR collection isn't there?! There is of course an LMS style elephant in the room here. This means that I am going to have to go well out of my depth and have a go at Stanier 8F No. 48518. I have just been very generously given a brand new Hornby 8F. The model is No. 48045 which is supplied with a Fowler tender. I would like to get little No. 48518 as accurate as possible but there appears to be very few pictures of her not in Barry condition on the Internet. I have ordered a spare Stanier 4,000 gallon tender because having read through the instructions on the Brassmasters detail kit, it looks like No. 48518 never had a Fowler tender. Yes I have ordered that kit too! The one I have on the way is riveted and it looks like the images of the loco from the BR totem era on the web that this is right at least at this time. I would like to know from the far better informed LMS experts here on RMWEB if there are any more images of the loco available - especially in the early BR period please? Also, what are the pitfalls of the Hornby model and what do I have to look out for please? Many thanks in advance for your help! All the best, Castle Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rail-Online Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 One here http://www.rail-online.co.uk/p77103013/h8e2aa245#h8e2aa245 1962 though........ Tony Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LMS2968 Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 According to the Engine Record Card, the only tender listed for this loco was 10745 (poor writing, could be 10245). She was withdrawn 24/7/65. Although the 8F Society Archive has many photos of the class, the only one showing this loco has sister 8739 standing in front of it! Of the tender, only the coal is visible. 8379 has had its top lamp iron lowered, but 8518 has not. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 Funnily enough I had a similar idea and plan to model some of the "ones that got away". Locos such as 7927 Willington Hall, 4942 Maindy Hall, 3612, 44781, etc. It seems to be a bit of a rare bird, the only photos I've found are post withdrawal. Jason Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castle Posted July 5, 2018 Author Share Posted July 5, 2018 (edited) Hi All, Tony - thanks! That confirms that the tender carried at that time was a riveted one. That's a start! LMS2968 - excellent work, thanks! So, I take it then from what you have said there that tenders were not pooled and moved around different locomotives like they were at Swindon? If there is only one tender listed then that's the one. What can we tell about that tender then? I understand that the Hornby one has a rogue almost GWR style hanging bar on it. The spare riveted example that I have is a Bachmann example that appears to be bereft this errant feature. It also appears to be very close to the one in the picture shown by Tony. Lowered lamp irons you say? Do tell more... I also understand that some locos had straight as opposed to curve ended reverser reach rods. Looks like our loco has a straight one. Is this something upgraded later on or as built? It's always interesting picking apart the minutiae pool that you don't normally swim in. Many thanks again for everyone's help! All the best, Castle Addendum: It seems that in all the pictures that there is no tender logo - is this possible or is the filth simply obscuring it? Edited July 5, 2018 by Castle Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castle Posted July 5, 2018 Author Share Posted July 5, 2018 Funnily enough I had a similar idea and plan to model some of the "ones that got away". Locos such as 7927 Willington Hall, 4942 Maindy Hall, 3612, 44781, etc. It seems to be a bit of a rare bird, the only photos I've found are post withdrawal. Jason Hi Jason, I agree - a really interesting subject! There are quite a few when you start looking. An SR Z class heavy shunter not quite making it into the national collection being one of the weirder ones. I know what you mean about 48518 - not many pictures at all that aren't showing the extended seaside holiday... All the best, Castle Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LMS2968 Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 Tenders were pooled and moved around, but not necessarily so and some engines used the same tender for life, including sixteen Coronation Pacifics. Preserved Stanier Crab 2968 has her original tender, so does the Compound and a few others. But many engines were coupleg to several different tenders over time. Generally, but not definitively, the ERCs or EHCs tell which ones. From 1963, many LMS and BR Standard locos on the LMR had the top lamp irons lowered and moved to the left quadrant of the smokebox to reduce the chances of the fireman being electricuted when adding a lamp. Usually, the middle lower iron was moved to be directly below it, but there were exceptions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poor Old Bruce Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 Tenders were pooled and moved around, but not necessarily so and some engines used the same tender for life, including sixteen Coronation Pacifics. Preserved Stanier Crab 2968 has her original tender, so does the Compound and a few others. But many engines were coupleg to several different tenders over time. Generally, but not definitively, the ERCs or EHCs tell which ones. NO!!! The Compound (I assume you mean MR 1000) has an ex Somerset and Dorset 2-8-0 (1914 batch) tender. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LMS2968 Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 Yes, you're right! I don't know where that came from. I was perhaps thinking of Crab 13000, which was built with a Midland tender frames but replacement tank. I knew the Midland came into it somewhere! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PenrithBeacon Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 One of the preserved 7F 2-8-0s has a tender off a Compound but I can't remember which one. I do remember that 88 has a boiler off a Compound, or at least, the regulator was a Compound pattern one until fairly recently. 88 also has a variety of Fowler and Stanier wheelsets under the tender and the pony truck. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bike2steam Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 (edited) Hi All, Tony - thanks! That confirms that the tender carried at that time was a riveted one. That's a start! LMS2968 - excellent work, thanks! So, I take it then from what you have said there that tenders were not pooled and moved around different locomotives like they were at Swindon? If there is only one tender listed then that's the one. What can we tell about that tender then? I understand that the Hornby one has a rogue almost GWR style hanging bar on it. The spare riveted example that I have is a Bachmann example that appears to be bereft this errant feature. It also appears to be very close to the one in the picture shown by Tony. Lowered lamp irons you say? Do tell more... I also understand that some locos had straight as opposed to curve ended reverser reach rods. Looks like our loco has a straight one. Is this something upgraded later on or as built? It's always interesting picking apart the minutiae pool that you don't normally swim in. Many thanks again for everyone's help! All the best, Castle Addendum: It seems that in all the pictures that there is no tender logo - is this possible or is the filth simply obscuring it? The first 146 were originally built with a curved reversing rod, then the rest had the straight version. 48045 was a 'balanced' (star) loco, I don't think 48518 was, so the driving wheel counter-balance weights could've been a different shape. Edited July 6, 2018 by bike2steam Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rail-Online Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 From 1963, many LMS and BR Standard locos on the LMR had the top lamp irons lowered and moved to the left quadrant of the smokebox to reduce the chances of the fireman being electricuted when adding a lamp. Usually, the middle lower iron was moved to be directly below it, but there were exceptions. Just found a June 1965 photo of 48518 at 1A and it does not have a lowered lamp iron, it was withdrawn at the end of July so it is very unlikely it ever received one Tony. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buhar Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 From 1963, many LMS and BR Standard locos on the LMR had the top lamp irons lowered and moved to the left quadrant of the smokebox to reduce the chances of the fireman being electricuted when adding a lamp. Usually, the middle lower iron was moved to be directly below it, but there were exceptions. The lowering of the top lamp iron depended on allocation and the likelihood of working under the wires. I understand it was mostly to do with the risk of arcing (some Jubilee chimneys were reduced for this reason too). When the electrification was planned at a lower voltage this adjustment wasn't thought necessary. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium kevinlms Posted July 6, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 6, 2018 The first 145 ( I think ?) were built with a curved reversing rod, then the rest had the straight version. 48045 was a 'balanced' (star) loco, I don't think 48518 was, so the driving wheel counter-balance weights could've been a different shape. No, it wasn't as simple as that, because the 8F's were built by different builders and batches. Here's an example 48293, which was due to go to the W.D., but the GWR broke it, so it didn't go. https://www.flickr.com/photos/train-pix/16041177036 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castle Posted July 6, 2018 Author Share Posted July 6, 2018 (edited) Hi All, Thanks for all the information people! Very useful. Interesting that the late GWR pooled their tenders and the LMS didn't do it that much. possibly as there were fewer types of tender on the GWR having been standardised earlier on? Looks like she kept her riveted example then. Good point about the balance weights - I don't think Hornby have gone to the trouble of altering the wheels on this model however: https://www.Hornby.com/uk-en/br-2-8-0-48045-8f-class-with-fowler-tender.html The reach rod looks like it's a builder / batch thing rather than a modification then? I'm sure there will be more questions. Let's see what the GWR nerd can do with the LMS engine then shall we? I'm awaiting a front number plate and shed code etch and I have the tender and some transfers at hand so we are nearly ready to start! Speaking of shed codes - I think I should have 87K Swansea Paxton Street (Victoria)... http://www.brdatabase.info/locoqry.php?action=locodata&type=S&id=119019&loco=8518 http://www.brdatabase.info/sites.php?page=depots&action=query&id=536 It actually ended up on the Western Region while No. 48518 was there in 1950! Perfect timing! All the best, Castle Edited July 6, 2018 by Castle Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bike2steam Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 (edited) No, it wasn't as simple as that, because the 8F's were built by different builders and batches. Here's an example 48293, which was due to go to the W.D., but the GWR broke it, so it didn't go. https://www.flickr.com/photos/train-pix/16041177036 True 8293 was involved in a mishap at Slough, it was one of a few that were made for the WD ( by Beyer-Peacock in 1940) that were returned to BR stock and renumbered out of sequence, but I(wrongly?) deemed it unnecessary to go into specifics. Edited July 7, 2018 by bike2steam Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNWR18901910 Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 Did you know that some Stanier 8Fs survive in the wreck of the sunken SS Thistlegorm? The sight of them rusting away and rotting into nothing-ness gives such a disturbing and creepy feeling. https://3sefka27u0ni3aq30d3q7nuh-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/12295386_709849675815954_6663829281617402208_n.jpg http://www.isdatravel.it/wp/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/thistlegorm-mappa-relitto-ISDA-Travel-blog-1.jpg Try Googling it and search for the sunken locomotives - believe me, the first time I saw them, I was scared and terrified for days. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castle Posted November 15, 2018 Author Share Posted November 15, 2018 Hi All, Just to let you know if you followed this thread or helped me out with information, little No. 48518 has now made an appearance on Little Didcot: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/51212-little-didcot/page-47 Many thanks for all the help! All the best, Castle 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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