Small colliery setting - suitable wagons

[south_tyne]

Hi all,

 

I am hoping to start a little O gauge shunting layout based upon a very small colliery in the North East, set loosely 1950s to 1970s. In order to give me headstart I was going to get a few of the Dapol 16t steel mineral wagons and a couple of Dapol 13t 7/8 plank wooden wagons in BR grey (with the 'p' prefix for ex-private owner stock). Would these be suitable for such as setting?

 

I know the NCB obviously mainly used their own wagons but would the 16t and 13t be suitable, as mainline stock, particularly if just servicing a small colliery? I am hoping to utilise them with a small industrial shunter.

 

Many thanks in advance for any help or assistance.

 

ST

[eastglosmog]

As long as you are in the North East, then 20ton (steel or wood) hoppers would be very common - whole trains of them were in regular use.  16t steel minerals were also to be seen. You could also have a few 4t chaldron wagons used (if I remember right, its rather a long time since I lived up there) to pick up spillage from staithes as at Seaham.

[Marshall5]

I'm not familiar with how things were done in the North-East but i did visit and photograph several collieries particularly in Wales and N.W. England.  From what I remember they all had internal user wagons (wooden ex P.O. and/or steel 16 tonners) for work within the colliery but also B.R. wagons for taking away 'the finished product'. I doubt that many ex P.O. wooden 12/13 tonners were on the main line much after the early 60's.  IIRC many of the smaller collieries had quite low loading hoppers so couldn't accept hopper wagons.  You might find forum members with greater knowledge on the industrial modelling section. Best of luck with your project.

Ray. 

[eastglosmog]

Just gone through a few more of my piccy books of north eastern collieries and in addition to the 20-21 tonners and 16 tonners, 10, 12, 13 and 14 ton wagons were also to be found, certainly in the 50s and 60s.  In later years the bigger wagons were far more common than smaller ones. North Eastern collieries were generally geared up to accept the bigger wagons.

Edited July 4, 2018 by eastglosmog

[Mark Saunders]

In the North East the 16t minerals would be used mainly for Landsale as locally the coal was delivered by the Colliery or most stations had drops for hoppers. RCH minerals were rare as internal users in Northumberland but Bates at Blyth had some and photo's can be found via the internet and Pegswood may have had some?

 

Mark Saunders

[south_tyne]

Thanks all for your replies. I thought I may have been stretching things somewhat. Obviously the NE was largely the domain of the 21t hopper on the main line and less so 16t minerals.

 

 

If nothing else I have had an enjoyable few hours tonight looking at photos of NCB systems! Particularly like those of Whittle Colliery where some short trains of 21t hoppers and 16t minerals are apparent behind austerity tanks. Exception rather than the rule though. Maybe time for a rethink about my layout plans...

[Guy Rixon]

Some collieries in the NE built copies of the NER P4 for internal use. E.g., the Harton system had many of these. The P4 was the 10.5-ton hopper and about as tall as a 12T wagon to RCH pattern, so well suited to low screens.

[Fat Controller]

You might find something of use amongst these:-

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishswissernie/albums/72157666363800368

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishswissernie/albums/72157692896265465

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishswissernie/albums/72157682414967834

[hmrspaul]

Plenty of NE wagons http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/industrialinternalwagons As already mentioned the NCB used lots of 2nd hand NER and LNER hoppers of various sizes and also had their own builds of similar in wood and steel. Rather more variety than other NCB areas where ex PO wooden minerals and later steel minerals were more normal.

 

Not so easy to find the variety in RTR 4mm models although there is, I understand, a reasonable selection in specialist kits. Slaters did the 20t wood hopper but I don't know if these are available again.

 

Paul

[south_tyne]

A belated thanks to all for your input. The expertise here on RM Web is simply second to none, you learn something new every day!

[Mark Saunders]

https://anticsonline.uk/N425/N765/N1399_Dapol-Ratio-Parkside-Dundas/106061657_Parkside-Kits-BR-13ton-Steel-Body-Hopper-Wagon-Kit-Diagrams-1-14.html

 

This forthcoming kit of the BR 13 ton hopper is suitable for the North East and with a little tweaking can be modified into the NCB version that was common in The Durham Area.

 

Mark Saunders

[The Johnster]

You could also justify an occasional 5 planker or 2 with wooden pit props.  A small colliery would certainly be using these rather than the more modern steel ones, and the miners preferred them.  If something bad was about to happen down there, the wooden props often gave a bit of a creak as a warning, giving them a couple of seconds to make an escape; this must have saved many lives or the years.  Steel ones were stronger and lasted longer, but when they gave out it was without warning and they just dropped the mountain on you.  Wooden props need replacing on a regular basis.  You might even need an inbound wagon of steam coal for the winding engine and the colliery's loco; presumably, once emptied, the wagon joins the others waiting to be loaded out, but, if it is a side door type and your colliery uses hoppers, perhaps it returns empty to pool.  

 

My colliery occasionally has a load of pit props delivered, and the odd wagon of gravel or cable drums for some building project going on down there.  It is the early 50s, so probably the newly founded NCB are putting in pit head baths as they promised to do everywhere.  My miner's workmen's may well not be needed when it is completed, as the men will be clean enough to use normal stock.  Pit head baths were a major change in the social history of mining areas; previously the men bathed in tin (actually zinc alloy) baths in front of the fire, which had to be kept going all year to heat the water for them.  The fuel saving and availability of concessionary coal was a major boost to local economies.

Edited July 12, 2018 by The Johnster

[south_tyne]

https://anticsonline.uk/N425/N765/N1399_Dapol-Ratio-Parkside-Dundas/106061657_Parkside-Kits-BR-13ton-Steel-Body-Hopper-Wagon-Kit-Diagrams-1-14.html

 

This forthcoming kit of the BR 13 ton hopper is suitable for the North East and with a little tweaking can be modified into the NCB version that was common in The Durham Area.

 

Mark Saunders

Cheers Mark that's really useful. I presume this is 4mm scale? It doesn't seem to specify (unless I am being daft!)

[Fat Controller]

Cheers Mark that's really useful. I presume this is 4mm scale? It doesn't seem to specify (unless I am being daft!)

It is.

[south_tyne]

You could also justify an occasional 5 planker or 2 with wooden pit props. A small colliery would certainly be using these rather than the more modern steel ones, and the miners preferred them. If something bad was about to happen down there, the wooden props often gave a bit of a creak as a warning, giving them a couple of seconds to make an escape; this must have saved many lives or the years. Steel ones were stronger and lasted longer, but when they gave out it was without warning and they just dropped the mountain on you. Wooden props need replacing on a regular basis. You might even need an inbound wagon of steam coal for the winding engine and the colliery's loco; presumably, once emptied, the wagon joins the others waiting to be loaded out, but, if it is a side door type and your colliery uses hoppers, perhaps it returns empty to pool.

 

My colliery occasionally has a load of pit props delivered, and the odd wagon of gravel or cable drums for some building project going on down there. It is the early 50s, so probably the newly founded NCB are putting in pit head baths as they promised to do everywhere. My miner's workmen's may well not be needed when it is completed, as the men will be clean enough to use normal stock. Pit head baths were a major change in the social history of mining areas; previously the men bathed in tin (actually zinc alloy) baths in front of the fire, which had to be kept going all year to heat the water for them. The fuel saving and availability of concessionary coal was a major boost to local economies.

Hi Johnster,

 

Thanks for your reply that is really useful and interesting. I must admit the pitprop idea hadn't crossed my mind and is a great idea for an extra traffic flow. The baths context is interesting too; further possibilities to add to operational interest and variety. Thanks again!

 

David