Chrisr40 Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 http://www.kentonline.co.uk/tenterden/news/vandals-trash-historic-steam-train-185744/ Sad news Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Enterprisingwestern Posted July 5, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 5, 2018 Shame about the photograph, but then, to an untrained disinterested journalist anything in brown and cream is a Pullman. Mike. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 There's a lesson here, though - don't leave a cash float and alcohol on an unattended train overnight. The likes of InterCity learned this several decades ago. Much as I hate these criminals and their depressing actions, they're not stupid, they are cunning and opportunistic. Chances are they're not thick chavs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold papagolfjuliet Posted July 5, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 5, 2018 They'll be bored middle class kids to whom nobody has ever said 'No' and meant it, same as always. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Colin_McLeod Posted July 5, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 5, 2018 Very annoying. If this was Facebook I could type my full reaction. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 Shame about the photograph, but then, to an untrained disinterested journalist anything in brown and cream is a Pullman. Mike. It is a Pullman though. I take it you mean the photo with the Scandinavian thing. The clue is in the livery and the names on the side. I remember the Merseyside and Manchester Pullmans which were Mark Threes in Intercity livery. Still Pullmans. Jason 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Enterprisingwestern Posted July 5, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 5, 2018 (edited) It is a Pullman though. I take it you mean the photo with the Scandinavian thing. The clue is in the livery and the names on the side. I remember the Merseyside and Manchester Pullmans which were Mark Threes in Intercity livery. Still Pullmans. Jason Whilst technically repainted post preservation mk1's aren't Pullman cars, my point was that it would have been better to show the vandalised car in service in it's resplendent state, would have had more of an impact. Mike. PS. The Manchester and Liverpool Pullmans were mk2 derivatives. Edited July 5, 2018 by Enterprisingwestern 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Andy Hayter Posted July 5, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 5, 2018 There's a lesson here, though - don't leave a cash float and alcohol on an unattended train overnight. The likes of InterCity learned this several decades ago. Much as I hate these criminals and their depressing actions, they're not stupid, they are cunning and opportunistic. Chances are they're not thick chavs. Unless they knew that alcohol and cash would be left there, then they would have broken in anyway and that is the majority of the loss to the railway. As you say probably opportunistic, and the nature of that is that it would have happened anyway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 PS. The Manchester and Liverpool Pullmans were mk2 derivatives. Not in the 1980s they weren't. They were Mark 3Bs built for the WCML and named after famous people from the North West such as John Lennon and LS Lowry. Branded Pullman. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Open#Mark_3 But my point still stands that they are Pullmans regardless of what their ancestry is. As are the Pullman Cars on the WHR and FR. Jason 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold chris p bacon Posted July 5, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 5, 2018 But my point still stands that they are Pullmans regardless of what their ancestry is. As are the Pullman Cars on the WHR and FR. I agree, to me 'Pullman' identifies a superior service rather than a particular stock. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titan Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 Not in the 1980s they weren't. They were Mark 3Bs built for the WCML and named after famous people from the North West such as John Lennon and LS Lowry. Branded Pullman. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Open#Mark_3 But my point still stands that they are Pullmans regardless of what their ancestry is. As are the Pullman Cars on the WHR and FR. Jason The Mk 2 Pullmans were in service until 1985 and received intercity livery before the Mk 3's were introduced, so yes they were... Not only that, they were the last coaches specifically built as Pullmans, rather than a standard body dressed up to be like a Pullman. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zomboid Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 (edited) I agree, to me 'Pullman' identifies a superior service rather than a particular stock.Pullman was a coach builder, so to me it means carriages built by that company. They built a lot of carriages for the USA that were not super luxury, and there is a shade of green named after the company. According to Wikipedia they also built streetcars (trams) and trolleybuses. Though I can see that their use in the UK means the term takes on a different meaning. Edited July 5, 2018 by Zomboid Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold chris p bacon Posted July 5, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 5, 2018 Pullman was a coach builder, so to me it means carriages built by that company. They built a lot of carriages for the USA that were not super luxury, and there is a shade of green named after the company. According to Wikipedia they also built streetcars (trams) and trolleybuses. Though I can see that their use in the UK means the term takes on a different meaning. That's the way I interpret it, When Pullman came to the UK in the 1800's he sent over flat packed coaches then negotiated their use in GN (& MR) services for a premium fare. about the turn of the century the GN then took over the Pullman cars and IIRC paid a fee to use the name 'Pullman' as it had become associated with superior service. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hughes Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 And the Pullman name and livery survive on the Welsh Highland, and very nice the coaches are too. I wonder if they've paid royalties? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium polybear Posted July 5, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 5, 2018 Stuff 'em in the Firebox..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCB Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 My late friend Barry Dare had an interesting philosophy, he didn't lock his car. One night vandals came to Blockley and smashed the drivers windows of every car in the street except Barry's looking for things to steal. Barry wouldn't have known they had been in his apart from the service book was out of the glove box. Other folk had days off work, expensive repairs etc. I therefore suggest you don't lock cars, whether automobiles or Pullmans. Just fit bloody loud alarms to the inside so the little B's ears bleed. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieB Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 (edited) I'm slightly baffled by why it shouldn't be considered a Pullman car. Metropolitan Carriage & Wagon had a long history of building luxury carriages, and their association with "British Pullman" stock goes back to their building of the "Southern Belle" (all Pullman stock) for the LB&SCR in 1908. This was the first licence building of Pullman carriages in the UK - before that some carriages were built in the USA and shipped over for assembly here. https://www.brightontoymuseum.co.uk/index/Category:Southern_Belle They continued to build Pullman carriages, both of wood and steel construction, which were supplied via or to the Pullman company itself. They also built the carriages that made up the "Brighton Belle" (first Pullman electric multiple units). From 1920 onwards they also built carriages for Compagnie Internationale des Wagons-Lits. Edited July 5, 2018 by EddieB Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 I'm slightly baffled by why it shouldn't be considered a Pullman car. That the coach which was subject to the vandal attack is a Pullman isn't in question. It's the random Mk 1s or whatever they are in the photograph further down, which shows them being hauled by the Swiss steam loco. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieB Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 That the coach which was subject to the vandal attack is a Pullman isn't in question. It's the random Mk 1s or whatever they are in the photograph further down, which shows them being hauled by the Swiss steam loco. Thanks, I thought the debate had wandered into questioning the carriage itself. Not Swiss - the loco was built in Sweden but operated in Norway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibber25 Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 (edited) Of the three coaches in the picture, the rear one looks to be a Met-Cam Mk1 Pullman. The journalist (who probably wasn't 'disinterested') was, no doubt, tasked with finding a photo of the KES Pullman wine and dine train, and that he did. When I first went to the KES in the 1960s, the two Pullman cars, Theodora and Barbara, were still in the SR green livery in which they had run as non-Pullman cafeteria cars on Kent Coast expresses. A curious reversal of what has happened to some Mk1s which have ended up as Pullmans. The reference to Pullman in the UK refers to cars owned and operated by the Pullman Car Co, the UK outpost of the organisation founded by George Mortimer Pullman in order to provide a better standard of rail travel initially for travellers in the USA. Only a few of the cars operated by the company in the UK were actually built by Pullman, either in the USA or at Preston Park, Brighton, where the UK company had its works. The main builders were Metro-Cammell, Birmingham RC&W and Clayton. Here's one of the cars, with Hastings-line gauge Maunsell at Robertsbridge c. 1968. (Thanks to my friend Keith Jaggers for the shot - and, yes, that's me) (CJL) Edited July 5, 2018 by dibber25 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Dava Posted July 5, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 5, 2018 The K&ESR is the biggest tourist attraction in the well-heeled town of Tenterden and the Pullmans have been stabled there a long time. These people knew what they were doing, probably bored on a hot summer night after watching the footie. The railway probably needs better security including CCTV unless is already fitted.The collection of historic coaches at Tenterden, some stored outside, is priceless and irreplaceable. I am seeing more examples of what used to be called 'mindless vandalism' such as bricks used to break plate glass windows and bus shelters, They think they won't get caught and it doesn't matter. Dava 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrisr40 Posted July 16, 2018 Author Share Posted July 16, 2018 http://www.kentonline.co.uk/tenterden/news/heritage-railway-defies-vandals-to-get-back-on-track-186384/ 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 Pullman was a coach builder, so to me it means carriages built by that company. They built a lot of carriages for the USA that were not super luxury, and there is a shade of green named after the company. According to Wikipedia they also built streetcars (trams) and trolleybuses. Though I can see that their use in the UK means the term takes on a different meaning. I do agree with you on this one, bit like putting all posh the extras into a Mondeo with a Rolls Royce badge on the bonnet. However I guess new coaches must have to pass certain safety tests, so outwardly they will look alike. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Saunders Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 I do agree with you on this one, bit like putting all posh the extras into a Mondeo with a Rolls Royce badge on the bonnet. However I guess new coaches must have to pass certain safety tests, so outwardly they will look alike. It did not stop Rover putting an MG badge on the front! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 It did not stop Rover putting an MG badge on the front! Or Vanden Plas I guess modern Pullmans is all about the interior design and service offered rather than exterior appearance, But there is something about the look of older carriages which sets them apart Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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