Train hits cow. Who is liable?

[Allegheny1600]

Ah! As usual, a situation designed to make money for our "learned friends".

 

 

Not really, no farmer wants his/her stock to get into danger and, in my experience, they sometimes notice a dodgy fence from "their" side and report it before it becomes apparent to a PW patrol whose view may be obstructed by bushes etc. It wasn't unknown for one or two on my former patch to make their own temporary repairs before informing the signalman.

 

Equally, farmers know a typical post-and-wire railway fence is not adequate to contain all types of animal even if it is in perfect condition, e.g. lambs or, at the other end of the extreme, American Bison, and either add extra protection or keep unsuitable stock away from lineside fields. 

 

Fortunately, farming is a profession in which the application of common sense hasn't yet been wholly superseded by reams of H&S gobbledook.

 

John   

I rather suspect that Mr Pestell was referring to members of the legal profession, rather than the farming community (for whom, I have the greatest admiration & respect).

I fully agree with you about farming still using a fair bit of common sense too, mostly.

 

By the bye and with a much less serious note, I am sorry but I am reminded of an American(?) story about an engineer (driver) who hit a cow and reported it to control.

Control wanted to know further details, where exactly, what time, what was his speed, so the engineer responded.

Now control wants to know the breed and sex of the animal so again the engineer responded as best as he could.

Then control wants to know the size, weight, colour and condition of the animal.

The engineers' response: "Size: indeterminate, weight: indeterminate, colour: indeterminate, condition: cow still dead!"

Can anyone recall the actual anecdote, please?

[Pacific231G]

I believe that SNCF have been looking at the removal of lineside fencing in some areas. The reasoning is that wild boar and deer can cross the fence to access the line, but then can't get out again. The result is then a large, disorientated, animal wandering along the line-of-route until it is struck by a train.

For "classic" lines the rules in France are rather complex but seem to boil down to the railway having to fence-off the line within towns, either side of stations for a certain distance, and either side of level crossings. Elsewhere they're not required to fence the railway and, in open country, rarely do apart from along LGVs (dedicated high speed lines)  I'm not sure whether the fencing of LGVs, which also do not have level crossings,is a legal requirement or something SNCF decided on its own initiative. When railways were first introduced there was a requirement for all railways to be fenced, as in Britain, but that was fairly soon relaxed. It's not uncommon in France to drive alongside a main line with nothing except a strip of verge between you and it.  That doesn't mean you can legally trespass on the railway's right of way !

 

These rules applied to the national network but not necessarily to local "light" railways, that come under the aegis of the départements prefecture, nor to industrial lines that  ran along the streets far more frequently than in Britain.

[JCL]

Off topic, but I remember when I was regularly travelling between Cheshire and Hull the train was once delayed because of a “beast” on the line. All the way home I was wondering about this beat. I was hoping it was going to be a dragon, but didn’t hear anymore about it.

 

Over here in Canada there are also often collisions with large wildlife such as elk and bears, especially where trains travel through parks. There’s a story here about one hard as nails bear: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/grizzly-bear-122-banff-national-park-1.3530580

[Wheatley]

fences were originally put up by the landowners to keep the navvies ect off their property .....

Was still the case until 1996 (?) when the Railway Safety Miscellaneous Provisions Regs (or something like that) reversed the position and required the fencing to keep people out. The degree of deterrence provided by the fence now depends on the trespass risk rather than just indicating the boundary. Edited July 20, 2018 by Wheatley

[dvdlcs]

Off topic, but I remember when I was regularly travelling between Cheshire and Hull the train was once delayed because of a “beast” on the line. All the way home I was wondering about this beat. I was hoping it was going to be a dragon, but didn’t hear anymore about it.

 

Where I am (Australia) any collision between train and animal is known as and referred to as a beast strike in communications with control. Partly in case the crew misidentify the animal but probably because some animals may be subject to compensation (e.g. cows, horses, sheep) whereas others would be wild (e.g. kangaroos, camels, dingos).

[The Stationmaster]

Where I am (Australia) any collision between train and animal is known as and referred to as a beast strike in communications with control. Partly in case the crew misidentify the animal but probably because some animals may be subject to compensation (e.g. cows, horses, sheep) whereas others would be wild (e.g. kangaroos, camels, dingos).

 

Ah, perhaps you can answer a question for me  .  Back in the 1980s when I was the Region's Rules & Regs 'guru' I had a call from a Signalman who wanted to know if - within the terms used in the Block Regulations - a wallaby was a 'small' or 'large' animal?  I asked if it was a young or adult wallaby and he didn't know so I told him to regard it as 'a small animal' because it was clearly likely to be smaller than a kangaroo although it was perhaps just as well that no train hit it thereby causing my decision to be brought into question.

 

As no fence damage was ever found it can only be presumed that it had jumped onto the lineside.

[alastairq]

.......Wasn't in Derbyshire by any chance?

 

{Didn't they suffer a wallaby escape back in the 1970's?  Or sometime thereabouts?  Or was it Staffordshire?]

[pH]

.......Wasn't in Derbyshire by any chance?

 

{Didn't they suffer a wallaby escape back in the 1970's?  Or sometime thereabouts?  Or was it Staffordshire?]

They were there from a bit earlier:

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/environment/nature/naturestudies/the-decline-and-fall-of-the-peak-district-wallabies-8503546.html

[Dunsignalling]

Ah, perhaps you can answer a question for me  .  Back in the 1980s when I was the Region's Rules & Regs 'guru' I had a call from a Signalman who wanted to know if - within the terms used in the Block Regulations - a wallaby was a 'small' or 'large' animal?  I asked if it was a young or adult wallaby and he didn't know so I told him to regard it as 'a small animal' because it was clearly likely to be smaller than a kangaroo although it was perhaps just as well that no train hit it thereby causing my decision to be brought into question.

 

As no fence damage was ever found it can only be presumed that it had jumped onto the lineside.

Wallabies are quite often to be seen in the area round Chard Junction. A number escaped from the wildlife park at Cricket St Thomas some years ago and there's been quite a thriving wild  population ever since. Back then the WoE was still under WR control, so early reports might have given rise to the query you dealt with.

 

Only new drivers even bother mentioning them these days, because the older hands have got used to seeing them just like foxes, badger or deer. I don't ever recall one being hit by a train. 

 

Typical CSR exchange - minus all the protocols (GSMR didn't come into use until after our boxes closed, though it had all been installed).

 

Driver: "Good morning signaller, I wish to report seeing a kangaroo on the line near MP.xxx."

 

Signalman: "It won't be a kangaroo, it'll be a wallaby, there's loads of them round there"

 

Driver: "Well, if you are going to split hairs....."

 

 

 

 John

Edited July 21, 2018 by Dunsignalling

[Compound2632]

if you are going to split hairs....."

 

 

 

OT but I was once on a train in Poland that was racing a hare. The hare won.

[dvdlcs]

Ah, perhaps you can answer a question for me  .  Back in the 1980s when I was the Region's Rules & Regs 'guru' I had a call from a Signalman who wanted to know if - within the terms used in the Block Regulations - a wallaby was a 'small' or 'large' animal?  I asked if it was a young or adult wallaby and he didn't know so I told him to regard it as 'a small animal' because it was clearly likely to be smaller than a kangaroo although it was perhaps just as well that no train hit it thereby causing my decision to be brought into question.

 

As no fence damage was ever found it can only be presumed that it had jumped onto the lineside.

 

Depends if it is a large or small wallaby.

 

:-)

[Fat Controller]

Where I am (Australia) any collision between train and animal is known as and referred to as a beast strike in communications with control. Partly in case the crew misidentify the animal but probably because some animals may be subject to compensation (e.g. cows, horses, sheep) whereas others would be wild (e.g. kangaroos, camels, dingos).

SNCF, as Mike will testify, are great lovers of 'procedures', most known by a four-letter shortened form of the full title. That for dealing with instances of animals on or near the line is known as 'BEST' (for 'bestiaux'; this is what the driver would have been applying in the (possibly apocryphal) case of the 'horse with a pantograph'

[The Stationmaster]

Wallabies are quite often to be seen in the area round Chard Junction. A number escaped from the wildlife park at Cricket St Thomas some years ago and there's been quite a thriving wild  population ever since. Back then the WoE was still under WR control, so early reports might have given rise to the query you dealt with.

 

Only new drivers even bother mentioning them these days, because the older hands have got used to seeing them just like foxes, badger or deer. I don't ever recall one being hit by a train. 

 

Typical CSR exchange - minus all the protocols (GSMR didn't come into use until after our boxes closed, though it had all been installed).

 

Driver: "Good morning signaller, I wish to report seeing a kangaroo on the line near MP.xxx."

 

Signalman: "It won't be a kangaroo, it'll be a wallaby, there's loads of them round there"

 

Driver: "Well, if you are going to split hairs....."

 

 

 

 John

 

John the one I was asked about was on the OWW and the enquirer was the signalman at Moreton-In-Marsh.    In my time when it was part of my parish we did not have wallabies on the old L&SWR route - but that was 40 years ago and I don't thing the wildlife park had really got underway by then.  However the trouble I mentioned previously with the herd of calves was at Forde Abbey (I think Forde Abbey No.1 Crossing - all i know it was a heck of a job finding it by road when I had to go and delve out some further information some months later for Bristol DMO's files so in the end I walked up the line from Chard Jcn and simply followed my nose; it was another hot summer.

SNCF, as Mike will testify, are great lovers of 'procedures', most known by a four-letter shortened form of the full title. That for dealing with instances of animals on or near the line is known as 'BEST' (for 'bestiaux'; this is what the driver would have been applying in the (possibly apocryphal) case of the 'horse with a pantograph'

 

The 'horse with a pantograph' was not an apocryphal tale but absolutely true although I can't off hand remember the name of the Driver who was involved (but I know a man who does).