Talltim Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 At the risk of entering a war zone, what do you perceive as ‘significant advantages ‘?Two wires... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete the Elaner Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 At the risk of entering a war zone, what do you perceive as ‘significant advantages ‘? Simpler wiring. May not be just 2 wires, but no need for circuit or isolation switches. No restriction as to where the locos/train needs to stop Being able to leave lights on with the loco/train stationary. Controllable sound & smoke/steam. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold ROSSPOP Posted September 19, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 19, 2018 zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz ! Sorrry..... nodded off! This will cause a war jog memories............. Original DC You may still be a user.............. Then by the 1970`s proper decent DC controllers came and went The Compspeed Rambler Minor being the very best.... All these to get really decent realistic control of loco`s on a simple layout..... Then came Two Wires.......... ...and One Controller..... ...simplified wiring........ and then dreamworld....... !!!! Try that with DC...... just `avin a larf !!! johnny 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Kettlewell Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 Here's mine ... Once upon a time I had the full set of these ... eeèe...memories .. Alan 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sp1 Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz ! Sorrry..... nodded off! This will cause a war jog memories............. Original DC s-l1600.jpg You may still be a user.............. Then by the 1970`s proper decent DC controllers came and went DSC01731.JPG The Compspeed Rambler Minor being the very best.... All these to get really decent realistic control of loco`s on a simple layout..... DSC02300.JPG Then came Two Wires.......... DSC04480.JPG ...and One Controller..... DSC04482.JPG ...simplified wiring........ DSC02408.JPG and then dreamworld....... !!!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xoG48OVyTqM Try that with DC...... just `avin a larf !!! johnny I only ever had (and still have) 2 Clippers, but as far as I recall they still had only 2 wires coming out of the back...... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junctionmad Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 (edited) At the risk of entering a war zone, what do you perceive as ‘significant advantages ‘?The primary advantage , is the ability to drive any loco anyway exactly like the prototype , multiple locos on a single track etc Secondary advantages are sound , light control Tertiary advantages , constant track voltage , easy track occupancy detection , frog juicers I make no mention deliberately of wires ! Regards Dave Edited September 20, 2018 by Junctionmad 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junctionmad Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 I only ever had (and still have) 2 Clippers, but as far as I recall they still had only 2 wires coming out of the back...... As does my DCC controller , it’s what happens next of course is the issue . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Colin_McLeod Posted October 9, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 9, 2018 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allegheny1600 Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 Tertiary advantages , constant track voltage , I'm not disagreeing with you but I really do find the constant track voltage a BIG plus! Having upwards of 20v available means even my smallest locos can usually make an imperceptible crawl across complex trackwork, not to mention that decent decoders provide this voltage in tiny 'kicks' to the motor so it will keep on turning even if the mechanism has very small sticky points. Try doing that on analogue using about ½ to 1½ volts. Analogue is still fine for larger layouts where trains don't run so slowly but if you want super-fine control, I find digital is best. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Harlequin Posted October 10, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 10, 2018 The primary advantage , is the ability to drive any loco anyway exactly like the prototype , multiple locos on a single track etc Secondary advantages are sound , light control Tertiary advantages , constant track voltage , easy track occupancy detection , frog juicers I make no mention deliberately of wires ! Regards Dave + Auto-reversers. No need to stop in a reversing loop to change polarity. Just drive in, all the way round and out again non-stop. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigelcliffe Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 + Auto-reversers. No need to stop in a reversing loop to change polarity. Just drive in, all the way round and out again non-stop. Can be done on DC layouts if your wiring is appropriate for such running. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junctionmad Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 Can be done on DC layouts if your wiring is appropriate for such running. Since auto reversors require a polarity change by definition how can you do that in dc without stopping the train ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzie Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 A bridge rectifier feeding power to the reversing section ensures that DC power is provided with a single polarity regardless of the controller's reverse setting. Once the train is fully within the reversing section the reverse switch is thrown and the train continues in the same direction and exits the reverse section travelling in the opposite direction. DC reversing sections are uni-directional when wired this way. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Harlequin Posted October 12, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 12, 2018 A bridge rectifier feeding power to the reversing section ensures that DC power is provided with a single polarity regardless of the controller's reverse setting. Once the train is fully within the reversing section the reverse switch is thrown and the train continues in the same direction and exits the reverse section travelling in the opposite direction. DC reversing sections are uni-directional when wired this way. For this DC solution, the section or sections of track adjoining the reversing section have their polarity changed while the train is in the loop. That means that there are potential polarity clashes where those sections join the rest of the layout and so you either have to stop the loco before leaving those sections too (in other words the problem has been pushed elsewhere), or switch the polarity of the entire layout, which could have consequences elsewhere. (I imagine that a big capacitor is also needed across the bridge rectifier output to keep the loco running while the reversing switch is changing over and momentarily not supplying power?) So I maintain that a DCC auto-reverser is a more elegant solution, fixing the problem locally where it occurs, and is thus worthy of addition to JunctionMad's list. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzie Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 You use a DCC autoreverser for DCC, and a bridge rectifier for DC - they are not interchangeable. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAF96 Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 Interesting that the ‘best ever’ Compspeed Rambler has DIGITAL stamped all over it. Was it trying to tell you something about things to come. Rob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junctionmad Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 You use a DCC autoreverser for DCC, and a bridge rectifier for DC - they are not interchangeable. I think the point being made, is that you have to reverse the polarity of the exit section as the train is in the loop in the DC bridge rectifier scenario , this then merely kicks the can to the next section ,it doesnt really solve the issue of stopping or not stopping the train Not to mention the speed change as you subject it to two diode drops ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junctionmad Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 (edited) I think its safe to say , that for new layouts , aside from the cost of loco conversion ( which I accept varies greatly depending on stock ) , there is no reason , other then inertia or lack of understanding , to not go DCC in all cases . The benefits are myriad and the drawbacks are few PS I still have my 1971 H&M Duette !!! Edited October 14, 2018 by Junctionmad Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIMorrison Posted October 15, 2018 Author Share Posted October 15, 2018 (edited) I was at an exhibition this weekend and the only layouts that were running without obvious fault were DCC, all the DC layouts had people pouring over very complex control panels trying to resolve issues - admittedly I was there half an hour after opening, but I did feel sorry for the DC brigade however I did see some very impressive multimeters Separately I had several non-railway friends around yesterday to see the layout and they were all amazed at how simple DCC is, they all believed that it was very complex and very expensive, they quickly realised that they were completely wrong in the misinformed view that they had been provided by the self styled ‘experts’ that they had spoken to previously. Edited October 15, 2018 by WIMorrison 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted October 15, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 15, 2018 (edited) I was at an exhibition this weekend and the only layouts that were running without obvious fault were DCC, all the DC layouts had people pouring over very complex control panels trying to resolve issues - admittedly I was there half an hour after opening, but I did feel sorry for the DC brigade however I did see some very impressive multimeters Separately I had several non-railway friends around yesterday to see the layout and they were all amazed at how simple DCC is, they all believed that it was very complex and very expensive, they quickly realised that they were completely wrong in the misinformed view that they had been provided by the self styled ‘experts’ that they had spoken to previously. Earlier on this year I was helping my mate with his DC layout, not one electrical fault all weekend. The very very noisy DCC layout nearby kept going quiet all of a sudden, at least once every hour while the next problem was sorted. Lots of blokes standing with their hand sets waving around and nothing happening. Poor wiring, design and unnecessary complication are symptoms of over ambitious modellers, both DC and DCC. Lack of operator training, and lack of testing before a show are also problems equally applicable to DCC and DC layouts. Boy was it lovely when that noisy layout hit its next fault. Edited October 15, 2018 by Clive Mortimore 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIMorrison Posted October 15, 2018 Author Share Posted October 15, 2018 Great thing about internet forums is that immediately you say anything about anything somebody will come up with the exactly the opposite view that justifies their opposing mantra. What I do know is that among my modelling friends there are several who were sworn DC addicts until they started investigating and assessing DCC properly after which they left quickly DC to adopt DCC because of the simplicity and felicity that it offers. None of them would considering using DC now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted October 15, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 15, 2018 Great thing about internet forums is that immediately you say anything about anything somebody will come up with the exactly the opposite view that justifies their opposing mantra. What I do know is that among my modelling friends there are several who were sworn DC addicts until they started investigating and assessing DCC properly after which they left quickly DC to adopt DCC because of the simplicity and felicity that it offers. None of them would considering using DC now. Good for them. Having operated both DC and DCC , well designed layouts and poorly designed layouts I have both enjoyed and not enjoyed operating. Two trains arriving simultaneously and all other trains and locos parked where they should be operationally. DC. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete the Elaner Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 Reliability seems to be more about the modeller than the type of control system. I adopted DCC about 10 years ago & soon started to use big bus wires with droppers to every rail & powering all point frogs from microswitches. There is nothing DCC specific about any of these. I still enjoy wiring a layout for DC & a few years later, I wired up a friend's exhibition layout. I used section switches instead of bus wires, but otherwise used the same techniques, showing a lack of trust for point blades or rail joiners to carry current. The layout has done at least 10 shows now & I go to most mainly because I like to but also in case something goes wrong. I have not seen the first fault yet. This has turned what can sometimes be a slightly stressful experience into a very enjoyable day out. Can we draw any conclusions from this? Probably not, but possibly. I do have a habit of looking at wiring & control panels. Some of them look a bit rough in this department, most of which seem to be DC. Could it be that DCC users are a bit more experienced with wiring. I often see the question on here & get asked at shows "How should I wire an Electrofrog point for DCC?", but never "How should I wire an Electrofrog point properly?" even though this is what they are really asking. The bottom line is that is you don't wire cautiously, you will be likely to have problems regardless of how the layout is powered & if you wire it well, you should not be bugged with issues. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Roger Sunderland Posted October 15, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 15, 2018 No DCC has more toy like gimmicks that can go wrong. http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/forum/178-dcc-help-questions/ Compared to http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/forum/63-electrics-non-dcc/ Science is evidence based. Non scientific, my DC trains fall off the rails equally as well as DCC trains. That's just down to poor track laying Clive. Nothing to do with DC or DCC. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Bucoops Posted October 15, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 15, 2018 The control manner is irrelevant - a quality build will be better than a poor quality one. Both methods have their place, their supporters and their detractors. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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