Cambrian C5 6 ton hand crane

[SovietSalad]

Hi all,

looking to model a breakdown train, and the only crane I can find for reasonable money is the Cambrian kit of the GWR crane. just a quick question for you all, with a crane this small, what would the train formation be when in transit? From lurking on here I've learnt that the larger cranes generally had 3 converted bogie carriages, however that seems a bit excessive for the 6-ton smaller crane. My plan is to use a pair of Parkside PC37 "python" wagons and a pre-grouping brake carriage or one of the new Oxford 6-wheel toads. I know the Pythons didn't survive far into BR days (I model rather loosely end of steam to BR blue), but the idea is it will be a "what-if" some survived into departmental use as tool vans.

If anyone has any ideas as to how these cranes were moved or how far off the mark I am with the accompanying wagons I would appreciate it. When I do start the build in a couple of weeks I'll be posting it here.

[cctransuk]

Hi all,

looking to model a breakdown train, and the only crane I can find for reasonable money is the Cambrian kit of the GWR crane. just a quick question for you all, with a crane this small, what would the train formation be when in transit? From lurking on here I've learnt that the larger cranes generally had 3 converted bogie carriages, however that seems a bit excessive for the 6-ton smaller crane. My plan is to use a pair of Parkside PC37 "python" wagons and a pre-grouping brake carriage or one of the new Oxford 6-wheel toads. I know the Pythons didn't survive far into BR days (I model rather loosely end of steam to BR blue), but the idea is it will be a "what-if" some survived into departmental use as tool vans.

If anyone has any ideas as to how these cranes were moved or how far off the mark I am with the accompanying wagons I would appreciate it. When I do start the build in a couple of weeks I'll be posting it here.

 

The Cambrian crane is not really a breakdown crane - it's more a mobile yard crane used to load and unload bulky / long items in yards not equipped with their own ground-mounted crane.

 

As such, it would move around in local freight trains, with little or nothing in the way of support; at best, perhaps a superannuated van for lifting tackle.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[HillsideDepot]

From the Cambrian kits website:

 

The cranes were used at small goods yards that didn't have a suitable yard crane. Whether they travelled to the yard with the loaded/empty wagons, or were sent in advance isn't known, as photographs are rare. They were also used at P.W. depots, where the last of them lasted into the 1980s (e,g, Hereford). Known locations were Aberystwyth, Hatton, Hereford, Machynlleth, Old Oak Common, Paddington, Pilning and Yate.

Most small derailments were dealt with by jacks and packing, or even unofficially with "tools" improvised from materials to hand and a loco with a chain to pull things back on, so by definition it was only the bigger derailments which needed a crane, and therefore a big crane. Even then the breakdown vans would often be sent out without the crane itself having enough gear on board for the job in hand.

[Sandhole]

The one kit of a crane like the one in the Halesowen shot was produced by D&S.

Brassmasters had a number for sale along with a proposed detailing kit to make a GWR variant. That still hasn't appeared and is probably the subject of another thread on this forum!!

The kit is typical D&S, makes into a nice model, not easy but buildable and it will be a price!

                                                                             Chris.

[Nile]

For the BR period you would be better off with either the Hornby Dublo or later Hornby models of actual breakdown cranes as starting points. Jon Hall is working on a detailing set for the Dublo model:

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/135741-detailing-the-dublo-cowans-sheldon-45t-crane/&do=findComment&comment=3232675

[Sandhole]

For the BR period you would be better off with either the Hornby Dublo or later Hornby models of actual breakdown cranes as starting points. Jon Hall is working on a detailing set for the Dublo model:

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/135741-detailing-the-dublo-cowans-sheldon-45t-crane/&do=findComment&comment=3232675

Good point!

 I'm waiting to see where that goes.

[M.I.B]

I have built the lovely Cambrian kit to go in a PW train, along with Cambrian ballast hoppers, a tool van, a Ratio 4 wheeler for the gang, a ballast plough TOAD ( yet to be built) , two GANES (MACAWS re lettered), and three Cambrian sleeper carriers.

 

For a small cameo train it has turned out to be quite long.  Dean Goods at the front.

 

For breakdowns I have scrimped and saved and already put the £ away for the Bachmann Ransomes offering.

[Compound2632]

This is probably the best picture I have come across of an earlier type breakdown train, taken at Halesowen in 1922 according to the site I found it on. It should give you a good idea of what ran with smaller cranes.

Midland Breakdown Train Halesowen 1922.jpg

 

Hope that helps

- Alex

 

That's a large crane for its day - one of the Midland's Cowans Sheldon 15 ton steam cranes of 1893, presumably the one allocated to Saltley. As mentioned, this type was the subject of a D&S kit (which I have and have yet to attempt). It has a single match truck, a drawing for which can be found on the Midland Railway Study Centre website. The next van in the breakdown train is a tool van converted c. 1898 from a 29ft brake third of 1875; the further van looks like a conversion of a standard 31ft centre-luggage composite of the 1880s, probably made during or after the Great War. The final van is a 25ft four-wheel brake.

 

There are further examples of Midland cranes in Midland Wagons Vol. 2. There were a number of 10 ton hand cranes, 6-wheelers from Cowans Sheldon, some going back to the 1870s. These had a pair of match trucks, similar to the ones for the 15 ton cranes but 9ft wheelbase and in general dimensions similar to the standard D305 3-plank wagons, though not dropside. One of the pair had a jib support like the one in the drawing; the other had a recess to accommodate the crane's balance weight box, which overhung the end of the crane's frames.

 

These cranes all seem to belong to the Loco or Engineer's Departments. The few pictures of Goods Department cranes show rather more decrepit devices that wouldn't have run on the main line.

 

There are a couple of articles by David Hunt on Midland 15 ton cranes and brakedown trains in Midland Record.

 

For cranes in general, see the excellent website of the Breakdown Crane Association.

Edited July 25, 2018 by Compound2632

[SovietSalad]

I see, so I misinterpreted the purpose of the crane. I will likely be building the kit as part of a P-way train now then, as M.I.B is doing. Just ordered the crane and a GWR sleeper wagon, probably going to go with the crane, 3 sleeper wagons, a shark which I have already built and put in primer, and a short rake of ballast wagons. 

[57xx]

I have one part built (must get a round tuit...) for my PW train too. It consists of the crane, two P15 ballast wagons, a T12 sleeper wagon, a Macaw H, an AA6 PW van and a U12 brake composite pressed into PW usage.