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Bl**dy Ratio again


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Whilst admiring Ratio for their commitment to the hobby over many years, and their overall quality and attention to detail, the unfortunate fact is that I have repeatedly had problems with their kits in recent years.  Possibly the constitution of the plastic has changed, but I have found it to be not only difficult to paint, though that problem seems to be solvable with washing up liquid, but the finer parts are brittle and next to impossible to remove from sprues without damaging them.  My swan neck lamps were a disaster; I think there were a dozen in the kit, of which I managed to build 5.  There is no need at all for the necks to be a separate part, and they should be moulded with the top collar of the post and the lamp head.

 

A signal box gave me a lot of trouble with the window frames for the same reason, that the parts are too fine and brittle and break far too easily.

 

4-wheel GWR coaches went together reasonably well, though the footboard brackets are flimsy, but the supplied wheelsets drop out of the bearings.  This is clearly not a plastic composition issue, and of course the wheelsets are not the ones originally envisaged for the kits, but the whole experience leads to a feeling of poor quality and poor quality control.

 

I know I have said this before, but I mean it this time; I'm just not going to buy any more Ratio stuff.  I don't think I'm that bad a modeller (although there are plenty better!) but Ratio's stuff is too hard for me.

 

I've never had a problem with getting acrylic paint to stick to things in general, though some materials need an undercoat of matt  varnish.  I am happy with the finishes I get from acrylic paint and enjoy working with it.

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orford - yes early acrylics were awful however paint technology has moved a long way. Testors Acryl is in my opinion the best (mostly military colours) but Badger Modelflex are also very good. Vallejo did not pass my thumbnail test on unprepared styrene and are susceptible to dissolving with IPA which is contained in some weathering kits.

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I noticed that with some of their LNWR coaches. Very fine bits such as tie-bars between axle boxes just fractured when I attempted to cut the bogie parts from the sprue. I'd put it down to the kits being rather old and the plastic getting brittle over the years (I'd had them in my 'to-do' pile for quite some time) rather than being poor quality in the first place.

I built my Midland coaches many years ago and so fairly new at the time. I found the plastic slightly brittle - especially the bogies, but not to the extent it prevented me from building them.

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For the record I NEVER use acrylic (and never will). Have used enamel for the last 45+ years and I'm certainly not changing now. To be fair I did try acrylic once (for all of about two hours) when it first appeared - and frankly couldn't get it to stick to ANYTHING. I never used it again.

 

 Yet on the other hand !! I ONLY use acrylics, stopped using enamels 15 - 20 years ago, no messing cleaning the air-brush, quick and easy. :sungum:

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I'm about to paint the Ratio cattle dock on my Chumely End layout and have sprayed the whole model with Halfords grey primer which will give a good base paint for painting. I intend to use enamel paint but from other projects it works well  acrylics. 

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The Johnster,

 

What do you use to remove the kit parts from the sprue? I use a small sharp pair of nail scissors to snip the parts from the sprue thus putting no pressure on the parts that you would if using a knife or other method.

 

I have ben building plastic kits since i was around 12 years old and always wash them while the parts are still on the sprue, and just about every kit gets primed before the main painting apart from small detail or internal parts that have to be painted during assembly.

 

I find Ratio no different to other kit manufacturers although I do find that Revel kits seem to need more of a wash than other brands before painting.

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Anyone building plastic kits and not using a set of sprue cutters needs to invest in a pair right away.

 

You can get a decent pair from places like Hobbycraft or your local model shop for about a fiver.

 

 

https://www.hobbycraft.co.uk/modelcraft-sprue-cutter/569366-1000

 

http://www.hattons.co.uk/356369/Modelmaker_Tools_MM010_Sprue_and_photo_etch_flush_cutters/StockDetail.aspx

 

Or pay a bit more for a better pair from Xuron.

 

 

 

Jason

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Anyone building plastic kits and not using a set of sprue cutters needs to invest in a pair right away.

 

You can get a decent pair from places like Hobbycraft or your local model shop for about a fiver.

 

 

https://www.hobbycraft.co.uk/modelcraft-sprue-cutter/569366-1000

 

http://www.hattons.co.uk/356369/Modelmaker_Tools_MM010_Sprue_and_photo_etch_flush_cutters/StockDetail.aspx

 

Or pay a bit more for a better pair from Xuron.

 

 

 

Jason

whats wrong with nail clippers? :laugh:

 

joking aside I like Ratio kits

Edited by chuffinghell
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Nail clippers might work fine if they are precise enough.

 

It's just that it reminds me of when I was a kid and building Airfix kits in the 1970s (then went on to Ratio etc). They really were pocket money kits as you could buy one on a Saturday and build it over the week. Then buy another one the week after or save up for a more expensive one.

 

All my mates also used to build them and wondered why mine used to turn out looking like planes and tanks, and theirs looked like a load of modern art exhibits. The first thing they didn't realise was you needed basic tools. If you just pulled the parts from the sprue then they didn't exactly go together properly afterwards.  :no:

 

 

Jason

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Not an expert in this field, but brittle plastic is normally considered to be due to too much filler material (for example, chalk dust) which keeps the cost down but does nothing for the resilience of the model.  In the 60s I was interested in ships and learnt an awful lot about the shape of hulls and later made a career out of it.  I built many Airfix and Revell models and the difference in the quality of the plastic was enormous.  Airfix was great and could be cut, filed  and bent, Revell was rubbish and fractured as soon as you looked at it.

I think Ratio are short changing everybody by doing this. 

 

Peterfgf

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Just had a look through my pile of unbuilt Ratio kits and I can't find any with poor quality plastic. It's at least the equal of anything else I've got from Slaters, Parkside, Cambrian, Kirk, Airfix, etc.

 

Any poor ones must be from well before the 1970s or a bad batch.

 

These are things dating from when the NBR Cask Wagon and GWR Open C were available right up to recent purchases from the last few months. Yes some bits are fragile, but nothing that wouldn't be replaced anyway such as tiebars/rods.

 

Yes. I've got quite a few of them.  :imsohappy:

 

I've also been reminded how good a model the SR Bogie Van B is.

 

 

 

Jason

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I recently built a Ratio LMS 10T van which had been lying in my "to do" pile for well over 20 years.  The plastic was fine - no problems.  The detail was exceptional when compared with some more modern kits from other manufacturers that I have built, and it also went together rather well.  I did have a little difficulty separating some of the finer bits from the sprue, but they were very fine indeed, much more so than I found in the other kits I built.  I then primed it with Halfords Grey Primer and am very happy indeed with the the result.  I think its fair to say that it's one of the best wagon kits I've built.

 

DT

 

P.S.  Like Jason I have also built the SR Bogie Van B kit and like him I found it very good indeed.

Edited by Torper
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I am finding the Van B a very tempting prospect, and may buy 2 so that I can use the roof and bogies on my antediluvian Triang Utility Van, so this is good news.  But now I know to wash everything in washing up liquid before I start, and to release finer detail from the sprues with nail clippers and not snippers as I have done before; the quality of the plastic is suspect in my view and the greatest care needs to be taken.

 

The station lamps need re-addressing altogether, and a combination of Ratio posts with bent wire swan necks and drillled heads to accept them may be the answer here.  There are plenty of very good lamps available, some of which can be lit, but Ratio seem to be the only people doing the rather plain swan necks that I want; many GW stations in South Wales had these rather characteristic lamps, and with the addition of BR 'sausage' nameboards in chocolate look just the job.

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Nail clippers might work fine if they are precise enough.

 

It's just that it reminds me of when I was a kid and building Airfix kits in the 1970s (then went on to Ratio etc). They really were pocket money kits as you could buy one on a Saturday and build it over the week. Then buy another one the week after or save up for a more expensive one.

 

All my mates also used to build them and wondered why mine used to turn out looking like planes and tanks, and theirs looked like a load of modern art exhibits. The first thing they didn't realise was you needed basic tools. If you just pulled the parts from the sprue then they didn't exactly go together properly afterwards.  :no:

 

 

Jason

This is what you need for damage-free removal

post-7723-0-61662600-1533396765_thumb.jpg

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I am finding the Van B a very tempting prospect, and may buy 2 so that I can use the roof and bogies on my antediluvian Triang Utility Van, so this is good news.  But now I know to wash everything in washing up liquid before I start, and to release finer detail from the sprues with nail clippers and not snippers as I have done before; the quality of the plastic is suspect in my view and the greatest care needs to be taken.

 

 

Information on detailing the Triang GBL here.

 

http://www.semgonline.com/model/4mm_lugg_vans_01.html

 

 

 

Jason

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As stated earlier I like Testors Acryl, although some jars can be a bit variable. Specific UK railway colours are not readily available over here but I manage to compromise for most.

 

Testors enamels and acrylics are well integrated, for example Matt Dark Green is available as an enamel aerosol, an enamel jar and an acrylic jar, and all three match exactly. It happens to be about the right colour for both my On30 SR&RL cars and my Peco 7mm GVT coaches.

 

I only ever brush paint with acrylics. The best consistency is fairly thin (airbrush style) which requires multiple coats but can be overpainted in mere minutes. I imagine this could put some people off as they generally do not have as dense a pigment content as enamels, also the undercoat colour can significantly affect the final colour.

 

Quick drying also means thoroughly and frequently cleaning brushes in soapy water.

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Have modern plastics also cut down on plasticisers, possibly for evironmental/hazardous materials reasons?

 

Plasticisers are generally used for very rigid plastics like PVC.  The materials we use in modelling - Polystyrene, Nylon, HIPS etc.  generally do not need plasticisers.

 

It is possible that there has been a move from HIPS to PS.

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As stated earlier I like Testors Acryl, although some jars can be a bit variable. Specific UK railway colours are not readily available over here but I manage to compromise for most.

 

Testors enamels and acrylics are well integrated, for example Matt Dark Green is available as an enamel aerosol, an enamel jar and an acrylic jar, and all three match exactly. It happens to be about the right colour for both my On30 SR&RL cars and my Peco 7mm GVT coaches.

 

I only ever brush paint with acrylics. The best consistency is fairly thin (airbrush style) which requires multiple coats but can be overpainted in mere minutes. I imagine this could put some people off as they generally do not have as dense a pigment content as enamels, also the undercoat colour can significantly affect the final colour.

 

Quick drying also means thoroughly and frequently cleaning brushes in soapy water.

 

Similar technique to yours with brush applied acrylics, Jeff; build up to the finish you want in thin layers, usually 3 or 4.  This can be a fairly fast process because acrylic, especially a thin coating of it, dries quite quickly, but I prefer to leave about 2 hours between coats and at least 24 before the final varnish for them to go off properly.

 

Finding Humbrol and Tamiya fairly consistent in terms of quality, and I have one or two Revell colours as well which seem fine.   I finish all my stock with matt clear varnish after any transfers have been applied and weather on top of that; my weathering wash mixes are also acrylics, though diluted.  'Crylics are a delight to use, easy to mix, easy to thin, not an unpleasant odour, and brush cleaning, in warm water, is a doddle.  I will never go back to using enamels unless I come across a material that cannot be prepared for acrylics.

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They also make a plastic primer but I have never tried that.

 

I have, and find it a little thicker than others, I use it on second-hand whitemetal loco kits I've reworked to help hide poor fettling by the previous owner.

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Anyone building plastic kits and not using a set of sprue cutters needs to invest in a pair right away.

 

You can get a decent pair from places like Hobbycraft or your local model shop for about a fiver.

 

 

https://www.hobbycraft.co.uk/modelcraft-sprue-cutter/569366-1000

 

http://www.hattons.co.uk/356369/Modelmaker_Tools_MM010_Sprue_and_photo_etch_flush_cutters/StockDetail.aspx

 

Or pay a bit more for a better pair from Xuron.

 

Sprue cutters? Oh you mean side cutters. That's like "wedding flowers" or "funeral flowers" same normal flowers just with the price jacked up because a word have been added on to describe them. 

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1-2-pcs-3-5-Precision-Flush-Mini-Wire-Cutter-Pliers-Cable-Snips-Side-Cutter-UK-/113005027756 will do the job, same tool, half the price, no fancy name or repackaging.

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