Route to a Class 117 DMU in N Gauge

[Grimly Feendish]

I'm building an N Gauge layout based on Twyford in the 1970's, so I need a class 117 DMU (probably a few of them in reality). Life's too short to wait for Bachmann to decide if they are going to produce a version in N gauge, so I've been pondering routes to creating one. So far I've assembled the following kit of bits...

 

Worsley Works Class 117 etched sides

 

Dapol Class 121 - Powered

 

Dapol Class 121 - Dummy

 

Farish Mk1 BSK

 

I will use the Mk1 as the basis for the Trailer Composite. I intend to rub down the sides of the Farish Mk1 and remove the windows. I'll then overlay the etched sides. I'm still pondering what to do about the glazing, I have some microscope slides which I might use.

 

For the DMBS, I'm thinking I'll hack off a cab of a 121 and will rebuild that end, perhaps using the etched sides. The roof end I'm not quite sure of yet.

 

The DMS will be similar.

 

Not sure yet to model the corridor or non-corridor version. The non-corridor version would be simpler, but I'm not sure would be accurate for '70s west London.

 

Has anyone else done anything similar? Any advice?

 

BTW, progress won't be quick. It's taken me several months to get this far!

 

John.

 

 

[carlw]

Hi,

 

Following this with interest.

 

Carl

[jamespetts]

This is definitely of interest (both the layout and the model), and I shall be intrigued as to your progress with this.

[PETER290774]

Hi 

 

Looking at doing this very project with the aim of creating the GWR 150 chocolate and cream 117, with similar components.

 

Initial thoughts are:

 

1. The weak point of the whole project as I see it is that the Dapol 121/122 really doesn't like being taken apart and is extremely fragile and frail.

The impression I've got is one false move and £100 goes down the drain..

If you're happy taking it apart and getting to go back together with all the lights and the motor working then fair enough.

 

When I do this, I'm tempted to leave the bogies on both vehicles and glue each vehicle into a cradle like device so that the bogies dangle below

but the body  is clamped tight and can be worked on. I've found that the brass contacts which the bogies match up with, if you've removed the bogies

bend very easily out of true, at the least I would recommend protecting them in some way (sellotape?) or if you are confident in taking them off

and putting then back on, then at least it keeps them out of harm's way. 

 

2. I would be tempted to sand down the sides on the Dapol bodyshells and glue the side etches over them,

and also paint them before gluing them on (and re-use what Dapol glazing you can). The handrail at the front would hide the join and mask the slight overlap.

 

3. The 121 cab cuts off easily enough (I've dissected a non-power 122). The cab end fits nicely onto the Farish mark one, but the side height of the mark 1

is half to a full millimeter too high for the 1950's 116-119 style DMU's sides. Sand it down carefully and with the Worsley sides glued over it

would work fine.

 

4. You could even get away with using three Farish mark ones with the painted removed with brake/clutch fluid/Brasso, with the Worsley sides and the

Dapol ends glued on if things got tricky with the Dapol bodyshells. This would also solve the issue of glazing.

 

5. The Dapol roof fits the Farish mark one like a glove.The profile of the Dapol roofs seem different to the Farish ones.I think they can be adapted

but would need very careful sanding to do so.

 

I am only using Dapol roofs on the 116/117/119 DMU's I'm building even if I'm using Farish Mark ones as the centre trailers.

 

The 120 is going to be entirely Farish mark one based with BHE Ends and Electra Graphics vinyl sides.

 

6. I would recommend looking at purchasing a spare unpowered 122/121 as this would provide additional spare bodysides and also bespoke Dapol roofing

to the correct profile.

 

7. I am using my spare 122 bodyshell in the 117 project. I would cut around half an inch off, and cut a little off what would become the corridor end and

do a small cut and shut, just to get the body profile - gluing the sides over would remove the obvious join.I would use the Worsley Work Brass Inner Ends.

Might have to retain the the three sided buffer beam.Have you considered BH Enterprises as they sell the inner exhaust pipes and corridor connections?

 

7. The centre trailer - would work fine as a Farish Mark 1 with Worsley Sides, however, the Mark 1 roof needs work to match the Dapol profile.

 

I'm also looking at doing the 119 and 116 using the various dummy and powered 121/122's I've hidden behind the book cupboard but have yet to pluck up the courage!.

 

Wishing you the very best of luck with this one, and will watch your progress with interest.

 

Kind regards

 

Peter

[Grimly Feendish]

Peter,

 

thanks for your thoughts.

 

It's good to know about the fragility of the Dapol unit, I will certainly bear it in mind.

 

For the TC roof I'm thinking of taking a mold from the Dapol roof and trying to make a resin one. Maybe I'll just try to pickup a spare unpowered unit, but it can be a bit of a pain getting stuff on this side of the pond.

 

Cheers,

 

John.

Hi 

 

Looking at doing this very project with the aim of creating the GWR 150 chocolate and cream 117, with similar components.

 

Initial thoughts are:

 

1. The weak point of the whole project as I see it is that the Dapol 121/122 really doesn't like being taken apart and is extremely fragile and frail.

The impression I've got is one false move and £100 goes down the drain..

If you're happy taking it apart and getting to go back together with all the lights and the motor working then fair enough.

 

When I do this, I'm tempted to leave the bogies on both vehicles and glue each vehicle into a cradle like device so that the bogies dangle below

but the body  is clamped tight and can be worked on. I've found that the brass contacts which the bogies match up with, if you've removed the bogies

bend very easily out of true, at the least I would recommend protecting them in some way (sellotape?) or if you are confident in taking them off

and putting then back on, then at least it keeps them out of harm's way. 

 

2. I would be tempted to sand down the sides on the Dapol bodyshells and glue the side etches over them,

and also paint them before gluing them on (and re-use what Dapol glazing you can). The handrail at the front would hide the join and mask the slight overlap.

 

3. The 121 cab cuts off easily enough (I've dissected a non-power 122). The cab end fits nicely onto the Farish mark one, but the side height of the mark 1

is half to a full millimeter too high for the 1950's 116-119 style DMU's sides. Sand it down carefully and with the Worsley sides glued over it

would work fine.

 

4. You could even get away with using three Farish mark ones with the painted removed with brake/clutch fluid/Brasso, with the Worsley sides and the

Dapol ends glued on if things got tricky with the Dapol bodyshells. This would also solve the issue of glazing.

 

5. The Dapol roof fits the Farish mark one like a glove.The profile of the Dapol roofs seem different to the Farish ones.I think they can be adapted

but would need very careful sanding to do so.

 

I am only using Dapol roofs on the 116/117/119 DMU's I'm building even if I'm using Farish Mark ones as the centre trailers.

 

The 120 is going to be entirely Farish mark one based with BHE Ends and Electra Graphics vinyl sides.

 

6. I would recommend looking at purchasing a spare unpowered 122/121 as this would provide additional spare bodysides and also bespoke Dapol roofing

to the correct profile.

 

7. I am using my spare 122 bodyshell in the 117 project. I would cut around half an inch off, and cut a little off what would become the corridor end and

do a small cut and shut, just to get the body profile - gluing the sides over would remove the obvious join.I would use the Worsley Work Brass Inner Ends.

Might have to retain the the three sided buffer beam.Have you considered BH Enterprises as they sell the inner exhaust pipes and corridor connections?

 

7. The centre trailer - would work fine as a Farish Mark 1 with Worsley Sides, however, the Mark 1 roof needs work to match the Dapol profile.

 

I'm also looking at doing the 119 and 116 using the various dummy and powered 121/122's I've hidden behind the book cupboard but have yet to pluck up the courage!.

 

Wishing you the very best of luck with this one, and will watch your progress with interest.

 

Kind regards

 

Peter

[Grimly Feendish]

A little progress...

 

Self-etching primer on the brass

 

Cutting and filing the Mk 1 body, ready for etched sides

 

Some CA and some courage resulted in this.

 

 

 

I'm not sure whats next. Perhaps taking a razor saw to the 121!

 

Cheers,

 

John.

[scottystitch]

Following this with interest. I’m hoping to do something similar for an N Gauge class 100, if WW will shrink their 4mm one for me.

 

I intend to use a shortened 121/122 chassis/floor as I think the power unit can be made to look right.

[scottystitch]

I've now got my Class 100 etch. It is similar (obviously) to your etch. 

 

A quick question, if I may, what are the "house" shaped items on the bottom of your bottom etch sheet, between the cab ends? They appear on my kit too, but they are the only things I can't figure out a purpose for. There is a couple of fold lines on t'other side......

[melmoth]

I've now got my Class 100 etch. It is similar (obviously) to your etch. 

 

A quick question, if I may, what are the "house" shaped items on the bottom of your bottom etch sheet, between the cab ends? They appear on my kit too, but they are the only things I can't figure out a purpose for. There is a couple of fold lines on t'other side......

 

Aren't they for forming the cab ends to shape?

[muddys-blues]

Gents the house shapes are laminated to form the gutter lines & cab shapes that go between the top of the cab etches, the body sides and the roof.

 

Best regards

Craig

[scottystitch]

Gents the house shapes are laminated to form the gutter lines & cab shapes that go between the top of the cab etches, the body sides and the roof.

 

Best regards

Craig

Craig,

 

Thank you for that. For the avoidance of doubt (I'm not the best at visualising) are you able to illustrate, even by sketch?

 

Apologies to John for the hijack of his thread...........

 

Best

Scott

[Grimly Feendish]

Gents the house shapes are laminated to form the gutter lines & cab shapes that go between the top of the cab etches, the body sides and the roof.

 

Best regards

Craig

 

Thanks Craig. That had been my guess, although I didn't realise they should be laminated.

 

I'm intending to use the Dapol cabs, but may try making these up just to see what they're like.

 

Cheers,

 

John.

[Grimly Feendish]

An update....

 

So it's been a while since I posted. There has been some modelling, I just haven't go round to posting.

 

First up, the DMBS. Attacking the Dapol 121 with a razor saw, saw a cab and cab roof removed.

 

 

I then made an end plug from plasticard. The idea is to fill the roof in with filler.

 

 

The TC with etched sides over a Farish shell came out needing some filler to cover the gap between coach side and the overlay at the roof line.

 

Edited March 25, 2019 by Grimly Feendish
Added a pic

[Joseph_Pestell]

What's the advantage of doing it this way by comparison with the BH Enterprises kit?

[Grimly Feendish]

11 minutes ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

What's the advantage of doing it this way by comparison with the BH Enterprises kit?

A few things spring to mind...

- motorising is easier

- cab fronts look better

- Gazing is better because I can re-use a lot of the Dapol glazing

 

I can let you know how a comparison comes out, since I picked up a B&H one at Alley Palley yesterday. At this rate it's going to take me a few years to finish both though!

[PaulCheffus]

1 hour ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

What's the advantage of doing it this way by comparison with the BH Enterprises kit?

 

Hi

 

Its 1/148 rather than 1/152 scale.

 

Cheers

 

Paul

[jamespetts]

Interesting. May I ask how you plan to modify the end gangways on the middle carriage to the BS design used by the DMUs from the Pullman type used by the hauled carriages?

[Grimly Feendish]

5 hours ago, jamespetts said:

Interesting. May I ask how you plan to modify the end gangways on the middle carriage to the BS design used by the DMUs from the Pullman type used by the hauled carriages?

Good question, and one that has had me scratching my head for quite a while. I may not bother in the end, I'll see how the DMBS turns out and see how they look together.

 

The biggest difference might turn out to be that the DMU ends were flat whereas the Mk1 ends have a slight angle on them. If that is too noticeable the razor saw will come out again and the ends will be replaced by plasticard. The gangway ends might end up being scratch built too, but I did pick some up from B&H yesterday that might do the job.

 

Cheers,

 

John.

[jamespetts]

Interesting again. Had you considered 3d printing any part of this?

[BernardTPM]

When originally built they didn't have corridor connections.

[Grimly Feendish]

10 hours ago, BernardTPM said:

When originally built they didn't have corridor connections.

Very true and I hoped I could use this to my advantage! But alas, by my time period - the 70's, they all seem to have been converted.

[Grimly Feendish]

11 hours ago, jamespetts said:

Interesting again. Had you considered 3d printing any part of this?

No I hadn't. It's certainly a thought. My CAD skills aren't great though.

 

I've 3d printed my own servo mounts for turnout control, which was fun. In the end I found it was more reliable to use proprietary ones, since they worked better.

[BernardTPM]

AFAIK they had the connections added in the late '60s, salvaged from withdrawn GWR stock.

[jamespetts]

Incidentally, I spoke to the chap on the Dapol stand at the Alexandra Palace exhibition on Sunday asking whether there was any chance of an N gauge class 117. He said "watch this space", and indicated that the company was shortly going to be making a decision as to what to produce next in N gauge, intimating that a class 117 was among the things being contemplated. Those who wish for a class 117 in N gauge might do well to post on the Dapol digest/forum that they would be interested in one so that Dapol have a good idea of the demand for this model.

[BernardTPM]

They could take the careful approach by first doing the Driving Trailer to go with the single unit. This would give an unpowered underframe and the body for the non-guard end of a 117, yet still be something they could sell straight away to those with 121s.