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What can be done with OO gauge in a 11' by 11' room?





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#1 OnTheBranchline

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Posted 08 August 2018 - 00:30

There's a basement bedroom in our house which could be turned into a hobby room/train room (the SWIMBO lightly suggested that the layout be in its own separate area).

 

First off, my bias is for GWR OO gauge but N gauge is not out of the realm of possibility.

 

It's a square 11' by 11' room. That size of room would make a OO gauge continuous run layout difficult to build (it would be more of a roundy-roundy at that size). So I assume that an end to end layout is most practical considering the space. The problem is that I have quite a few big 4-6-0s that I would like to run for long periods of time rather than from one end of the layout to the other. When I had my temporary layout in my parents basement, I would become accustomed to sitting down and simply watching the trains go round on my admittedly basic 8 by 4ft roundy layout. I'm not sure if I would enjoy operating an end to end layout.

 

I don't know exactly what I would want on the layout in terms of features, I just want to hear if it's feasible to have a credible OO gauge layout in that size of a room. What sort of layout designs could I do with that size? I would think the classic MPD layout or the standard branchline would probably be the easiest.

 

 

 





#2 LBRJ

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Posted 08 August 2018 - 00:45

I think that one or two of the RMWeb classic GW layouts ( A Nod to Brent, Wencombe) are in rooms not much bigger (if at all)


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#3 DavidCBroad

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Posted 08 August 2018 - 01:16

My bedroom layout was about that size, wall hugger 60" above the floor, End to End but round 5 walls with the terminus over the hidden sidings and a constant gradient.  I should have made it a continuous run with "Hidden" sidings along one wall really.  You need to build any stations around a curve with such short walls but a continuous run is very do able in that space.  I will try and find my various experimental drawings and post them as examples of what you can ( or cant) build in 11X11 but they are 30 odd years old now as the layout was dismantled 22 years ago when my son was born


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#4 south_tyne

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Posted 08 August 2018 - 05:21

I would suggest the answer to the initial question is an awful lot! It's a great sized space for a roundy roundy layout although the trick I suspect will be not trying to cram too much in.

They are a little old fashioned but you could do worse than checking out Cyril Freezer's trackplan books. I am sure there will be a variety of examples for that kind of space. See this as an example: https://www.amazon.c...tTVL&ref=plSrch. It will give a flavour of what you will be able to accommodate.

Of course if you go N-gauge then you can have a small empire....! ;)
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#5 Zomboid

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Posted 08 August 2018 - 06:38

Depends how long you want your trains to be. It'll be a squeeze to get something main line like in with really long trains, but you could probably do a 2 track roundy with at least one hidden siding per direction that'll take a large engine plus 6 or 7 carriages, which would look reasonable (wasn't the Cheltenham flyer only 8?). If you're building a station then it could have 3 coach platforms and your expresses don't have to stop there.

I am no expert on the GWR, but I would recommend you look at wayside stations on the B&H, OWW or Birmingham lines for inspiration. Personally I wouldn't bother with a station and would just have a lineside freight facility of some sort, but that's just me. If you have a million locos and not so much other rolling stock then you could have a roundy with a loco shed as the main point of interest.

Or just junk it all and run Bulleids on 2 coaches on a previously unknown bit of the withered arm instead ;)

#6 Harlequin

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Posted 08 August 2018 - 06:49

Yes, as the others have said a roundy-round should be entirely possible in that size. (See "King's Tawton" in 7ft * 8.5ft: http://www.rmweb.co....tawton/page-2.)

 

You could use large radius curves in the scenic area, to get an open sweeping feel, and tighter radii in the fiddle yard for space efficiency.

 

A small mainline through-station could be built on the large radius curves that would provide lots of operating potential without dense trackwork.

 

Then just sit back and watch your 4-6-0-headed expresses thunder through the station in between local stoppers and goods trains.


Edited by Harlequin, 08 August 2018 - 06:56 .

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#7 TheSignalEngineer

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Posted 08 August 2018 - 07:13

I managed to do a Roundy in a room 8' 4" by 8' 8". Double track main line with a branch coming in at one side and an industrial line at the other. There are two hidden loops on the main lines capable of holding 6 coaches. As it is based on a secondary line most booked passenger trains were 4 coaches. The branch has two hidden siding and the industrial line has one hidden by a loading bay for Palethorpes vans. Curves in view are 30" OR more except on the industrial line and in the small yard.

#8 Titan

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Posted 08 August 2018 - 07:44

Well a roundy roundy with terminus and a through station capable of handling 6 coach trains is possible. This is my layout, it is from the diesel and electric era but the addition of a turntable should be possible for steam operation. Whilst the main lines have quite reasonable radius curves, second radius is required on the station throat. You could have larger radius, but then six coach trains won't fit in the terminus.

 

Z3hHEpx.jpg


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#9 ejstubbs

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Posted 08 August 2018 - 09:55

It's a square 11' by 11' room. That size of room would make a OO gauge continuous run layout difficult to build (it would be more of a roundy-roundy at that size).

 

Some might disagree.  Have a look at this layout, which crops up quite regularly in threads of this nature on RMWeb.  It fits in an 8ft6"x7ft6" bedroom:

 

post-11593-0-87728200-1350156699_thumb.j

 

Plenty of people would be very grateful for 11ftx11ft for a 4mm layout.  You can fit a lot in to such a space if that's what you want.  A useful first step is to decide what it is you want to get out of the layout.  Some people want somewhere they can exercise their extensive collection of locos & stock, others prioritise realistic operations over numbers of trains, others again enjoy making a convincing scenic location with a railway running through it.  Ultimately, unless you are one of the super-rich then space & money will always be constraints - and unless you're retired, time is likely to place even greater limits on what you can do.

 

It's a good idea, when embarking on a new project of this (or indeed any) kind to have a clear of idea of what you definitely want to achieve vs what you are prepared to do without, or at least treat as a lower priority.  These requirements always need to be tempered by what is realistically achievable in terms of time & money.  It's also useful to set yourself some early objectives so that you can feel that you are making progress - and maybe also use the milestone as an opportunity to take time to review and reflect on what you've achieved so far and what you plan to do next; you may find that your priorities have changed during the time spent working towards your initial objectives.

 

In summary: better to make a considered plan at the outset than to launch in to something that's not realistically achievable or that you won't actually find very satisfying when it's finished.  (But don't fall in to the trap of incessant planning with no action!)


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#10 Joseph_Pestell

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Posted 08 August 2018 - 13:01

OP does not say what kind of 4-6-0 locos. Kings and Castles are a bit restrictive but most of the other GW 4-6-0s could be found on single-track routes and single track is usually rather easier in a limited space as the station throats become much simpler. Even with double track, it should be possible to find a suitable prototype location if any branch junctions are restricted in operation (as most GW junction stations were) or use slips as at Brent.



#11 The Johnster

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Posted 08 August 2018 - 13:40

11 square is big enough for most branch or secondary main line scenarios, and something incorporating 'Minories' is probably feasible.  You need to spend some time before you commit track to baseboards thinking about what you want the layout to do, though; you have mentioned that you enjoy watching trains running which suggests that a continuous loop/roundyround would be good for you.  There are downsides to this, though, some of your curvature will have to be very sharp and you probably need setrack geometry for it.  Mr Stubbs' layout in post 9 shows the problem, and compounds it with some Freezer-esque cramming in of stations and gradients.

 

My advice would would be to go for something much simpler, perhaps an up and down main with a refuge siding or loop on each side, a small rail fed industry like a dairy in a corner for when you want to do a bit of shunting.  The look would aim to be 'trains running through the countryside'.  Keep train lengths to about 4/5 coaches and 20 or so wagons, and speeds around the scale 50/60mph mark, a secondary main line sort of set up.  There is no need, in my view, for a station or engine shed.

 

An end to end fiddle to terminus might be a better use of space and more interesting operationally, but if operation is not your prime reason for building the layout this doesn't matter, and you'll never be happy with the restricted feeling it will give you.



#12 Joseph_Pestell

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Posted 08 August 2018 - 13:50

Generally, it will be easier to "fit the quart into a pint pot" if modelling an urban scene. It gives more scope for hiding tight curves, putting in view blockers, etc.

 

Birmingham Moor St could be a good GWR option. The terminus station for operation but two through roads (no platforms back then) with Kings on their way to Wolverhampton.



#13 Satan's Goldfish

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Posted 08 August 2018 - 13:53

If watching trains run through scenery is your preferred method, the ever useful folded 8 would probably work quite well. ease out the corners as much as possible to make it smooth, and be careful of gradients. (drawn as single line because I'm feeling too lazy to draw it as a 2 track mainline)

 

Slip Trap.jpg

 

Limiting to a 5 coach length would still look ok on an 11x11 layout in OO. There's plenty of places you could add some sidings or a short (3 coach length?) country through station if you felt the urge for the occasional stopping service.


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#14 Barry Ten

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Posted 08 August 2018 - 13:55

Definitely big enough for a secondary main-line without it looking too cramped.

 

My room's 12 x 11 so a smidge larger but as it stands there's more than enough room for a decent continuous run if you don't try to squeeze

in too many goodies.

 

Minimum radius is 30 inches and there's a six-road storage yard with room for 7 or 8 coach trains, typically.

 

 

blogentry-6720-0-74168600-1510782427.jpg

 

blogentry-6720-0-39675500-1530565487.jpg

 

blogentry-6720-0-93420400-1519335815.jpg

 

 


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#15 OnTheBranchline

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Posted 08 August 2018 - 17:02

OP does not say what kind of 4-6-0 locos. Kings and Castles are a bit restrictive but most of the other GW 4-6-0s could be found on single-track routes and single track is usually rather easier in a limited space as the station throats become much simpler. Even with double track, it should be possible to find a suitable prototype location if any branch junctions are restricted in operation (as most GW junction stations were) or use slips as at Brent.

 

Very true,

I have:

1 King

3 Castles

3 Granges

2 Halls 

1 County 



#16 Neal Ball

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Posted 08 August 2018 - 18:31

Definitely big enough for a secondary main-line without it looking too cramped.

 

My room's 12 x 11 so a smidge larger but as it stands there's more than enough room for a decent continuous run if you don't try to squeeze

in too many goodies.

 

Minimum radius is 30 inches and there's a six-road storage yard with room for 7 or 8 coach trains, typically.

 

 

blogentry-6720-0-74168600-1510782427.jpg

 

blogentry-6720-0-39675500-1530565487.jpg

 

blogentry-6720-0-93420400-1519335815.jpg

 

This looks like a lovely layout - is it on RMWeb?


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#17 Barry Ten

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Posted 08 August 2018 - 19:21

This looks like a lovely layout - is it on RMWeb?

 

That's very kind, Neal. Other than entries on my blog, there isn't a layout topic as such. I chose a name for the layout (King's Hintock) that was uncomfortably similar to John Flann's layout's name (Hintock), so I thought

it would be disrespectful to put in the layout area, once I'd realised the similarity. I got the name from a list of fictitious Thomas Hardy locations and thought it sounded suitably Great Western, which must have been a subconscious influence from the original Hintock.


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#18 south_tyne

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Posted 08 August 2018 - 20:31

If I was in your position I would lay a big oval around the perimeter of the room as a first step, just to get some trains running :) then you could develop your ideas from there but, as Barry Ten shows above, there is scope for a great layout.

Personally I would be careful of trying to cram too much in, less is more. The plan provided by ejstubbs above would be far too busy for my liking but shows what you could do if density of operation is your goal.

PS - Barry, it'd be great to see more of King's Hintock. It looks superb definitely deserves a topic of its own!
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#19 colinreeves

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Posted 08 August 2018 - 20:47

Take a look at "Conley West branch terminus" on page 732 of the current (Sept 2018) Railway Modeller. Room is actually less than yours but by using more than one level there is plenty to see. 


Edited by colinreeves, 08 August 2018 - 20:47 .


#20 young37215

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 05:07

You can get a lot in an 11 x 11 room, as others have said the key is deciding on what you want and doing the planning in advance.

 

My old 00 west highland line layout was in a 13 x 11 room and had a lot crammed in. Constructed over 2 levels, the end to end running length of the line was in excess of 150' with 4 stations, 1 yard and a large hidden fiddle yard. This kept me occupied and interested for the 5 years that it existed.

 

http://www.rmweb.co....ghland-line-v3/

.



#21 Neal Ball

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 05:33

That's very kind, Neal. Other than entries on my blog, there isn't a layout topic as such. I chose a name for the layout (King's Hintock) that was uncomfortably similar to John Flann's layout's name (Hintock), so I thought

it would be disrespectful to put in the layout area, once I'd realised the similarity. I got the name from a list of fictitious Thomas Hardy locations and thought it sounded suitably Great Western, which must have been a subconscious influence from the original Hintock.

 

 

There is definitely room on RMWeb Kings Hintock 

 

Good luck to the original OP, plenty of space for a layout in 11 x 11, again lets see that develop on RMWeb.


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#22 ejstubbs

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 06:57

Mr Stubbs' layout in post 9 shows the problem

 

Just to be clear, it's not my layout.  I merely posted the picture (and a link to the layout owner's description of it) in response to the OP's assertion that an 11ft x 11ft room "would make a OO gauge continuous run layout difficult to build".  Note again that Crewlisle only has 8ft6" x 7ft6".

 

Whether or not trainset curves are actually a problem depends on what it is the OP wants to achieve.  As I said in my post, the OP would be well advised to sit down and think about that before ruling any options in or out.  It's fairly clear that the OP likes to watch the trains go by, which suggests that a compromise might be needed between that and having more realistic-looking curves.  Or else switch to 2mm.  Ultimately, you can't fight geometry (which is largely why the Greeks invented it in the first place).


Edited by ejstubbs, 09 August 2018 - 06:57 .


#23 Zomboid

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 08:11

11x11 is pretty big by British home layout standards, certainly actually within the house.
For a watching the trains go by layout it could just be plain track with maybe an interesting scenic feature, for example some of the river bridges on the Didcot to Oxford line are really quite picturesque. That kind of thing could take up 2 sides of the room and the other 2 would have loads of space for staging. For a bit more operational interest then a set of goods loops would most likely fit, so you could have overtaking in at least one direction. On the other hand a more is more approach like Crewlisle in 11x11 would have massive operational potential.

I'd build a branch line like system/empire layout in the space, but that might not suit the larger GWR locos that well.

#24 TrevorP1

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 08:54

I'm currently working on plans for a layout in a garden building 12 x 10. As yet the building hasn't been constructed but I will start a thread once the foundations go in! I'd have liked more but a fair bit of garden is being given up so I can't complain. 

 

We all have different ideas but my preference is for an impression of a 'real place' and I've juggled with many ideas but, to cut the rumble short, I settled on the Cornish mainline. Mid week at least, many of the trains were shorter so not too much selective shortening to go on. I needed somewhere on a curve and eventually hit on Grampound Road - 5 coach platforms, small goods yard and a deep cutting at one end to hide the curve. I'm going to bring forward the occupation bridge at Trenowth as the break at the other end.  No Kings or 47XXs but everything else is OK.

 

When I get a chance I'll post a plan but at the moment I'm juggling with a house sale along with preparations for a holiday and getting married!

 

(Sorry for any typos - haste!)


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#25 OnTheBranchline

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 11:24

Depends how long you want your trains to be. It'll be a squeeze to get something main line like in with really long trains, but you could probably do a 2 track roundy with at least one hidden siding per direction that'll take a large engine plus 6 or 7 carriages, which would look reasonable (wasn't the Cheltenham flyer only 8?). If you're building a station then it could have 3 coach platforms and your expresses don't have to stop there.

I am no expert on the GWR, but I would recommend you look at wayside stations on the B&H, OWW or Birmingham lines for inspiration. Personally I wouldn't bother with a station and would just have a lineside freight facility of some sort, but that's just me. If you have a million locos and not so much other rolling stock then you could have a roundy with a loco shed as the main point of interest.

Or just junk it all and run Bulleids on 2 coaches on a previously unknown bit of the withered arm instead ;)

 

Well I never! :no:


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