Engine location/identifier on DCC track

[parkicat]

Hi all

 

I think this maybe a step too far, but I may as well ask.  Is it possible on a DCC layout, to identify where on the track a specific loco is, not just that an unidentified loco has passed a sensor? and if possible feed that information back in someway to the controller?

.

Our current set up uses a Raspberry Pi and Gertbot together with software to act as the controller of the engines, points, signals and sound( work in progress!). It displays a schematic of the track with points being manipulated through buttons on the screen, the schematic displays those point changes as they occur.  As we have at least 4 tracks going around in a loop around the attic, it is sometimes difficult to understand which loco is on which track, or indeed where it is? It would be good to register the movement of locos in some way. Is it possible? 

 

Many thanks

[Ron Ron Ron]

Perfectly possible and a lot of people already have layouts with this facility.

 

Exact identification of individual locos/trains, can be derived either from layout control software, or from RailCom.

 

With RailCom and more particularly RailCom Plus, the loco/train will identify itself and also provide information such as direction of travel (or intended direction if stationary), speed etc.

 

In both cases, some form of track detection is required to indicate which section, or block, of track the train is in.

 

 

Ron.

[Nigelcliffe]

In addition to Ron's post...     Most commercial software that does position tracking by simple occupancy (detecting "something" passing a detector).   If the software knows the starting position, and the track arrangements (what connects to what, position of turnout blades), then, with adequate sensors, its possible to follow a train around by simple occupancy detectors, and updating the position of the train.     So "identification" hardware isn't necessarily required.  

 

Adding "identification" might be useful, but it comes at a cost.   RailCom requires:  a command station that includes a RailCom cutout in the DCC signal,  RailCom detectors (there are some kit designs around, as well as commercial ones), and RailCom capable decoders in all locos.   And, there are a few devices for DCC which don't work well with RailCom signals around. 

 

Away from RailCom, there are other methods of identification, such as:  reading bar-codes placed under locos and stock,  infrared codes pulsed from a infrared LED under stock,  RFID chips in stock and track-side readers, camera identification of loco as it passes (not that hard for image processing software given a short set of possible matches), and no doubt many others.

 

 

Very large and very complicated layouts work without "identification", just using detection and knowing starting positions.   The McKinley does it (currently expanding storage sidings to carry 200(!) trains).    

[WIMorrison]

What you want to do is exactly what I do I am also setting up an identification only system for a friends hidden sidings and that will cost ~£200

 

 

Feel free to ask me questions, I can answer more fully later tonight

 

And it doesn’t need to be expensive or complex, only cost me around £450 plus some time

Edited August 8, 2018 by WIMorrison

[parkicat]

Perfectly possible and a lot of people already have layouts with this facility.

 

Exact identification of individual locos/trains, can be derived either from layout control software, or from RailCom.

 

With RailCom and more particularly RailCom Plus, the loco/train will identify itself and also provide information such as direction of travel (or intended direction if stationary), speed etc.

 

In both cases, some form of track detection is required to indicate which section, or block, of track the train is in.

 

 

Ron.

 

Thank you Ron for your reply.  This is the first time I've heard of RailCom, but looks like I will be hearing a lot more!!

[parkicat]

In addition to Ron's post...     Most commercial software that does position tracking by simple occupancy (detecting "something" passing a detector).   If the software knows the starting position, and the track arrangements (what connects to what, position of turnout blades), then, with adequate sensors, its possible to follow a train around by simple occupancy detectors, and updating the position of the train.     So "identification" hardware isn't necessarily required.  

 

Adding "identification" might be useful, but it comes at a cost.   RailCom requires:  a command station that includes a RailCom cutout in the DCC signal,  RailCom detectors (there are some kit designs around, as well as commercial ones), and RailCom capable decoders in all locos.   And, there are a few devices for DCC which don't work well with RailCom signals around. 

 

Away from RailCom, there are other methods of identification, such as:  reading bar-codes placed under locos and stock,  infrared codes pulsed from a infrared LED under stock,  RFID chips in stock and track-side readers, camera identification of loco as it passes (not that hard for image processing software given a short set of possible matches), and no doubt many others.

 

 

Very large and very complicated layouts work without "identification", just using detection and knowing starting positions.   The McKinley does it (currently expanding storage sidings to carry 200(!) trains).    

 

Thank you Nigel.  Our layout is a home produced one, as is the majority of the software that runs it.  It sounds like RailCom require its own controller software, which I was hoping to avoid, as I have spent many happy months producing our own. For me it's all about the fun of achieving the result myself through my own blue language and eureka moments!.  However, some of your suggestions for methods of identification are very interesting, will definitely be looking at those. Another thing I've not heard of, as I'm relatively new to the train modellers fraternity is 'The McKinley'.  Will be looking into that too!

[parkicat]

What you want to do is exactly what I do I am also setting up an identification only system for a friends hidden sidings and that will cost ~£200

 

 

Feel free to ask me questions, I can answer more fully later tonight

 

And it doesn’t need to be expensive or complex, only cost me around £450 plus some time

Thanks Iain for your reply and the clip.  Your screen and setup looks very exciting, mine is far simpler and without the fancy controls. Is it written by yourself or is the screen layout part of the Railcom package and icons? We have 22 locos so one of the problems I have, is finding space on the screen for a schematic of the layout and the loco controls that's readable.

Many thanks  

[WIMorrison]

I am using a commercial package, iTrain (https://www.berros.eu/en/itrain/), to do the heavy work for me

 

It provides me with fully automatic operation, which was always my intention however I am also setting it up to do what you need for a friend who has a large hidden storage yard where trains come and go. His challenge is that he cannot recall what has gone into where and I am setting up Railcom on his Digitrax system to enable him to monitor just the hidden yard. When a loco enters the Railcom ID will be read by the program which is then a) displayed and b) associated with the attached train and the layout schematic shows the name of the actual train. This layout will not have automatic operation, all we are doing is solving the ability to see what is parked where. This updates automatically when the layout is started and any time a train enters a monitored section. If the Loco isn't part of an Train then all that will show is the Loco ID.

 

The schematic for the solution is attached. I am sure you could make your program read the Railcom ID and then display, I am lazy and prefer buying a product that comes with the support

 

The test of the concept is shown in this picture where we knocked up a test circuit

 

 

Does this help you?

 

Iain

 

 

 

 

[parkicat]

I am using a commercial package, iTrain (https://www.berros.eu/en/itrain/), to do the heavy work for me

 

It provides me with fully automatic operation, which was always my intention however I am also setting it up to do what you need for a friend who has a large hidden storage yard where trains come and go. His challenge is that he cannot recall what has gone into where and I am setting up Railcom on his Digitrax system to enable him to monitor just the hidden yard. When a loco enters the Railcom ID will be read by the program which is then a) displayed and b) associated with the attached train and the layout schematic shows the name of the actual train. This layout will not have automatic operation, all we are doing is solving the ability to see what is parked where. This updates automatically when the layout is started and any time a train enters a monitored section. If the Loco isn't part of an Train then all that will show is the Loco ID.

 

The schematic for the solution is attached. I am sure you could make your program read the Railcom ID and then display, I am lazy and prefer buying a product that comes with the support

Alan railcom 20180718 v01.jpg

 

The test of the concept is shown in this picture where we knocked up a test circuit

 

iTrain Alan.JPG

 

Does this help you?

 

Iain

Hi Iain

 

Yes it does help. It shows us that we need to make ourselves more familiar with these products before we can ask meaningful questions, I’m still struggling with how it all hangs together. We would very much like to see something like this in action, perhaps at a modellers fair. Does anyone know of any setups like this near us in Flintshire?

 

Many thanks, good luck with the hidden track set up.