MARK 1 EARLY BLUE / GREY COACHES

[paul 27]

Bachmann Mk1 blue/grey coaches, looking for the earliest ones circa 66  would these have a mix of different bogies,

and what  Mk1 coaches would be added to the early XP 64 train.

[John M Upton]

I don't know if this is of any help but the new issue of Traction Magazine has a feature about Mk1 coaches with a picture of one of the very first Mk1's to be repainted in blue and grey, Corridor Composite S15881 which still has BR1 bogies

[robertcwp]

Bachmann Mk1 blue/grey coaches, looking for the earliest ones circa 66  would these have a mix of different bogies,

and what  Mk1 coaches would be added to the early XP 64 train.

The Mark 1 stock repainted to run with the XP64 stock comprised two brake seconds, an open first and an unclassed restaurant.

 

Most Mark 1 carriages retained the type of bogie they were built with except for sleeping and catering cars originally built with BR bogies, most of which gained B4/B5 or Commonwealth, many corridor and open firsts built with BR bogies and rebogied with B4s (some whilst they were still in pre-blue/grey liveries) and assorted others mainly used on front rank services, which swapped BR bogies for B4s (including BGs). The SR did a bit of swapping of Commonwealth and BR bogies but that was not common.

 

In general, those built between 1960 and the end of Mark 1 hauled stock construction in 1964 had Commonwealth bogies from new and retained them.

[paul 27]

Thanks for all the information, was the initial XP64 set lettered LMR I have only seen later pictures when

numbered for Western Region, what type of bogies were used on the Mk1 vehicles were they B4 to match the rest.

[BernardTPM]

The XP64 train wasn't in the final blue/grey livery, not only using a slightly different shade of blue but also a different format for the blue and grey and number positions. The Mk.1s within the set were all late build with Commonweath bogies. Here's a nice picture of D1733 on the set, the second coach being a Mk.1.

Repaints into 'proper' blue/grey livery started in 1965.

Edited August 10, 2018 by BernardTPM

[russ p]

I believe the B4 bogies on XP64 stock were slightly different to standard production B4s

In the early 80s when preserved railways bought mk1s the B4 and Commonwealth bogies were returnable to BR but they didn't require the XP64 ones as apparently they were slightly different

[robertcwp]

I wrote these notes on the XP64 Stock back in 2012.

 

Here is a rather poor shot of the stock on the West Coast Main Line: https://flic.kr/p/BDxr8M

 

This shot is from the early days of the stock - note the M prefix: https://flic.kr/p/9F1VCz

[paul 27]

When used on the LMR 1965 Euston - Heysham would it be the same formation as used on the east coast

route, would it sometimes include D1733 Class 47.

Edited August 11, 2018 by paul 27

[robertcwp]

When used on the LMR 1965 Euston - Heysham would it be the same formation as used on the east coast

route, would it sometimes include D1733 Class 47.

No idea, the only photographic evidence I have seen is the one photo I linked in my previous post. I doubt D1733 would have been used as 47s were not common on the line at the time. 

[paul 27]

No idea, the only photographic evidence I have seen is the one photo I linked in my previous post. I doubt D1733 would have been used as 47s were not common on the line at the time.

I would have thought D1733 would have been the exception as it was the original loco to haul this

set, any one have photos of this in the 60s on the WCML.

Edited August 11, 2018 by paul 27

[paul 27]

 

What rake formations of blue grey mk1s would be used on the LMR in the 60s, I believe the Bachmann FO is from

the first batch with out centre doors and could be used as a RFO would this run next to a Resturant/Buffet

or could it replace one.

[robertcwp]

What rake formations of blue grey mk1s would be used on the LMR in the 60s, I believe the Bachmann FO is from

the first batch with out centre doors and could be used as a RFO would this run next to a Resturant/Buffet

or could it replace one.

Open firsts (sometimes two) were often used as dining cars coupled next to a catering car with a kitchen, which could be one of several types including a Restaurant Buffet or a Kitchen Buffet. There were only three open firsts of the type Bachmann produce (which is essentially their RFO model with different markings).

 

Diagram 73 FO (as made by Hornby) with an RB in this train:

E3168_KingsLangley_1967 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

[paul 27]

 

Thanks Robert nice photo, on a lesser train would this consist mainly of CK SK with a BSK each end.

[robertcwp]

Thanks Robert nice photo, on a lesser train would this consist mainly of CK SK with a BSK each end.

All manner of formations were possible.

[paul 27]

As to the Bachmann coaches recent releases I have purchased have nearly all had defects in them, the couplers

will not self centre either on a few of them, don't remember any issues with the old ones I have, down to

quality control or I am just unlucky, any cure to fix the self centre issue.

[Phil Bullock]

A couple of jobs to do on all Bachmann mark 1s...

 

Undo the bogie retaining screw half a turn - usually too tight, might be cause of your issue

 

And check back to backs of wheels

 

Cheers

 

Phil

[John M Upton]

The first batch of BR(S) green livery BSK's seem to suffer over time from some affliction that sees the body sides distort and the glazing go milky to a greater or lesser degree,  I know, I have four of them....

[russ p]

Was the blue on the XP64 set the same blue as D1733?

Am I right in thinking that when that loci was painted when in virgin service the blue was too light?

[John M Upton]

Yes I think it was, they based the shade of blue on its appearance on the front cover of the 1964(?) combined volume which if I recall was actually a colourised black and white photo.  Did D1733 carry ordinary green when it was built and was then repainted in XP64 or was it blue from new?

[paul 27]

A couple of jobs to do on all Bachmann mark 1s...

 

Undo the bogie retaining screw half a turn - usually too tight, might be cause of your issue

 

And check back to backs of wheels

 

Cheers

 

Phil

 

 Might improve running but makes no improvement to couplers, they spring back one way but stick the other, must be something to do with the cam, will try some oil or grease, unless the plastic needs gently sanding.

[robertcwp]

 Might improve running but makes no improvement to couplers, they spring back one way but stick the other, must be something to do with the cam, will try some oil or grease, unless the plastic needs gently sanding.

I have never liked those couplings. I have remounted the couplings on the bogies on almost all of mine.

[Phil Bullock]

 Might improve running but makes no improvement to couplers, they spring back one way but stick the other, must be something to do with the cam, will try some oil or grease, unless the plastic needs gently sanding.

 

Make sure there are no burrs on the plastic mechanism - and apply graphite from soft pencil as lubricant

 

Is it the coupling itself that catches? We change them for the Hornby Roco style close couplers - gives rubbing gangways. See http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/116076-Hornby-announce-mk1-fo-and-bso/page-10 for what can be achieved. And see our videos on the link below for how they run around 3ft raduis curves. How close do you get yours to couple with the couplings bogie mounted Robert?

 

Phil

[robertcwp]

Not sure if this link will work:

 

http://class47.co.uk/c47_zoom_v3.php?img=1624020023000

 

Unfortunately, there is no date but it has air brakes.

[Phil Bullock]

Cracking photo Robert - Note no BR arrows in that photo

 

We have thread merge here - see also 

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/136648-xp64-d1733/?hl=d1733

 

Based on Clive's air braking info this would be 71/72

 

Cheers

 

Phil

[John Tomlinson]

Was the blue on the XP64 set the same blue as D1733?

Am I right in thinking that when that loci was painted when in virgin service the blue was too light?

 

Presumably it was somewhat light, as there was quite a big difference to Rail Blue. The Heljan 1733 also seems to suffer from this, although I do rather like mine!

 

One thing I've long wondered about these "shades of blue", is whether some of the apparent difference between the XP64 variant and Rail Blue as we came to know it, is attributable to the early spraying application, that gave rise to the myth of "chromatic" blue? Will we ever know?

 

John.

Edited August 20, 2018 by John Tomlinson