Alan Kettlewell Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 I'm looking for a bit of advice. I want to add a rack and pinion railway section to my HO layout- link below in my signature area. The layout is in a fictitious location based somewhere around south east Germany, bordering on Austria and close to Switzerland. The rack and pinion line will be in a mountainous region notionally near the Austrian border with Germany so it could be an Austrian or a German line, I don't mind which. I'm looking for suitable HO stock to buy, in particular a couple of cog locos. It's HO because I have spare HO track and points and the centre racks for the track. I've seen the rather old Eidelweiss locos from Fleichmann which are readily available on eBay but I want to convert to DCC and I have a feeling they are fitted with the old type of motor plate that requires replacing for the DCC conversion. These may still be an option and I've also seen the recent E69 cog locos from Roco, nice but a bit expensive. So could anyone advise who else does such a loco in HO scale? I've considered narrow gauge for while- Ferrotrains have some nice little locos - but very pricey. Any knowledge out there would be appreciated. Cheers... Alan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieB Posted August 19, 2018 Share Posted August 19, 2018 I can't help with models available, but should mention that standard gauge rack lines were quite rare - the majority being of metre (or narrower) gauge. Although they worked the steeply-graded line from Murnau to Oberammergau, the E69 locomotives were (are - since they are all preserved) adhesion only. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Joseph_Pestell Posted August 19, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 19, 2018 May not be quite what you want, Alan, but in Austria there were standard gauge Uerdingen railcars used on a rack railway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Kettlewell Posted August 20, 2018 Author Share Posted August 20, 2018 Thanks for the replies, I had a feeling that might be the case. Looks like if I was to stick to HO and go cheap, then I'd be limited to running an old Edelweiss train with a an old Fleischmann steeplecab and maybe the old cog fitted 'Karl' 0-6-0 loco also from Fleischmann, easily available on eBay but both of which may be problematic converting to DCC. I'll have to do some thinking about whether to build an HOm or HOe line instead and suffer the expense of the stock and track work I'd need - some nice locos and stock though. Anyway, thanks again, replies appreciated. Cheers... Alan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satan's Goldfish Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 Additional operational fun: go HOm but have some Rollwagen https://www.shapeways.com/marketplace?type=product&q=rollwagen to take your standard gauge wagons up over a mountain (to Switzerland?). Bemo do a range of rack stock, if it's a fictitious narrow gauge then anything could work. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
009 micro modeller Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 While still pricey, I think the Fleischmann N gauge rack system is much cheaper than Ferro-Train, and could be used as the basis for an H0e line. Also Ferro-Train is, unusually, H0n3 (10.5mm) rather than H0m or H0e. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
michl080 Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 Alan, there are a few more oprions. In the state of Württemberg in south western Germany, they operated quite a few rack railway lines. One of the most prominent ones the line between Honau and Lichtenstein close to Reutlingen. This line saw a very powerful rack railway steam engine, the class 97.5 . Four of these machines were built, they were considered so important that three of them survived until today, one even operational. The landscape in this reagion is spectacular and a few modellers have layouts that show the stations of that line. There are models of the 97.5, but they are from small manufacturers like Micro Metakit or Westmodel. Here are a few links, mostly in German: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reutlingen%E2%80%93Schelklingen_railway https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bahnstrecke_Reutlingen%E2%80%93Schelklingen#Zahnradbahn_Honau%E2%80%93Lichtenstein https://www.zhl.de/show.php?page=Zahnradloks&ret=Geschichte https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W%C3%BCrttemberg_Hz https://www.drehscheibe-online.de/foren/read.php?010,7708960,7711738#msg-7711738 have fun, Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Kettlewell Posted August 21, 2018 Author Share Posted August 21, 2018 Additional operational fun: go HOm but have some Rollwagen https://www.shapeways.com/marketplace?type=product&q=rollwagen to take your standard gauge wagons up over a mountain (to Switzerland?). Bemo do a range of rack stock, if it's a fictitious narrow gauge then anything could work. Interesting idea, thanks. Building this part of my layout is a distance in the future yet so I have plenty of time to seek out what I think I want although I've had a look into the Bemo stuff but isn't it all Swiss? I'm having difficulty finding anything Austrian or German. Cheers … Alan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Vecchio Posted August 21, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 21, 2018 Alan, There was a very important standard gauge rack railway in Austria, it went over the Praebichl pass and connected Leoben with the Enns valley. So why a normal gauge rack railway crossing the alps? The answer is iron ore. The Styrian Erzberg (ore mountain) was the main source for the steel industry in Austria before ore from Latin America and Swedish Kiruna was a cheaper source. The Erzberg is a huge mine, the ore was both mined underground and as open pit on the surface. And believe it or not - it is the largest open pit mine in Europe. The ore is mainly the iron mineral siderite (FeCO3), which is mixed with ankerite (CaFe[CO3]2) and dolomite (CaMg[CO3]2). The average iron content is 33%. The calcium and magnesium content was a life saver for the mine, as this is used as an additive together with the much higher iron content ores from Sweden or South America. So the mine is still working, Annual production approximately 2 million ton of enriched iron ore (out of 7 million tons of excavated material). Enough about mining. Let's look at the trains: Austria had in the past 2 important iron production sites, one in Leoben (Styria) and one in Linz (Upper Austria) To get the ore to the smelters in Leoben the trains had to go over the Praebichl pass, which is 1024m above sea level. A normal gauge rack railway was built to do this job. It is not very steep, just 7%, but with the heavy ore trains this needs some traction power. For my knowledge the steam engines serving the pass were the strongest rack rail engines ever built. I think one of them is on display in the city of Eisenerz. Just for information: The other smelter (Voest Alpine Linz) is reached by a line through the Enns valley. A very interesting line with lots of tunnels and bridges. Here the ore trains are still running. Less then it was 50 years ago, but if you look at the quantities of ore mined you still need a few trains... If one of our readers is in the area it is worth a visit. There are some converted mining trucks (those with the 3m diameter tyres...) which are used for a tour on the mountain. Of course you are only going into areas which are no longer mined but it is still impressive. Especially the breaker, crushing the ore into smaller sizes. There is also a guided tour into the mountain, you go in with a 700mm electric train. They stopped mining in there at the end of the seventies, and some of the mining machines are still there and can be visited. There is of course also the history and the old equipment shown. Also the trains are still running over the pass, but as a museum train for tourists. There are only DMU's, and not using the rack rails but adhesion. There is some material on Wikipedia, it is in German, but a few pictures may tell you something. https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erzbergbahn I have heard some rumors that Roco will produce the Erzberg 297 rack railway locomotive in H0, but this was a few years ago and I didn't hear anything after that. Uups - found it. But not from Roco. Micro Metakit Class 297.401 Adhesion/Rack Loco, Black/Red Livery, Giesl Smoke Stack Lets see if this link works: https://www.google.co.uk/search?biw=1024&bih=673&tbm=isch&sa=1&ei=2ct7W42pJ8HOwQKmx5yACA&q=erzbergbahn+lokomotive&oq=erzbergbahn+lokomotive&gs_l=img.3...682324.689220.0.690175.22.18.0.0.0.0.0.0..0.0....0...1c.1.64.img..22.0.0....0.buMMB6o-ifM#imgdii=-5IgC_IzUYt5IM:&imgrc=r67Gg4V90xE-QM:&spf=1534840460614 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyA Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 The nearest rack lines to your area are the metre gauge electric Zugspitzbahn and Wendelsteinbahn in Bavaria and the metre gauge steam Achenseebahn in Austria. You could use the Bemo rack railcar promised for 2019 and say that your line either bought or borrowed it from the FO. Further east, there was the standard gauge Wegscheid branch which used rack railcars before it closed in 1965. These railcars were similar to the standard Uerdingen cars. Tony Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Kettlewell Posted August 21, 2018 Author Share Posted August 21, 2018 Thanks Vecchio that is very informative indeed - and a mighty powerful loco by the look of it! My thoughts on this rack railway section (if I build it) are to run a couple of small railcars or a steam loco pushing a single coach up - maybe both - with a passing option part way up or two stubs at the summit where I can change trains so at least two run up and down the line. I think it may represent a preserved line now a tourist attraction. Giving some more thought to it all and weighing up the space I have for it, I may be able to arrange the line so I can run small trains with adhesion only. Here's my crude diagram showing my latest thoughts on it: I just about have the space to run trains from the base station into a dead end hidden inside a hill to the right (representing the train going off somewhere). After a time and reversing out from there, the line has a much easier slope and, assuming I can get the slope shallow enough for adhesion running, would give much wider options of trains to run up the mountain. These are all just early thoughts - I'm nowhere near to tackling that part of the layout yet - but I like to plan ahead and gather ideas. So thanks to everybody for your valuable suggestions - please keep 'em coming. Cheers … Alan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Kettlewell Posted August 21, 2018 Author Share Posted August 21, 2018 The nearest rack lines to your area are the metre gauge electric Zugspitzbahn and Wendelsteinbahn in Bavaria and the metre gauge steam Achenseebahn in Austria. You could use the Bemo rack railcar promised for 2019 and say that your line either bought or borrowed it from the FO. Further east, there was the standard gauge Wegscheid branch which used rack railcars before it closed in 1965. These railcars were similar to the standard Uerdingen cars. Tony Thanks Tony - also very useful information. I just love those little Uerdingen type railbuses and once had a twin car set from Fleischmann about 35 years ago! (I wish I'd have kept all that stuff from that time!) The Bemo stuff is extremely nice and I'm attracted to the idea of some form of notional purchase from the FO, or similar, to run as a tourist line. I may have to do a big eBay sale to raise funds of I go down that route as I'm trying nowadays to make the hobby self funding if possible (diminishing retirement fund.) These days I try to avoid seeing my wife's raised eyebrows at yet another purchase - keeps the peace as we're both aware my current project has already cost a 5 figure sum! Thanks again for the info and ideas. Cheers … Alan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Kettlewell Posted August 21, 2018 Author Share Posted August 21, 2018 Thanks Vecchio that is very informative indeed - and a mighty powerful loco by the look of it! My thoughts on this rack railway section (if I build it) are to run a couple of small railcars or a steam loco pushing a single coach up - maybe both - with a passing option part way up or two stubs at the summit where I can change trains so at least two run up and down the line. I think it may represent a preserved line now a tourist attraction. Giving some more thought to it all and weighing up the space I have for it, I may be able to arrange the line so I can run small trains with adhesion only. Here's my crude diagram showing my latest thoughts on it: Rack Railway Options.png I just about have the space to run trains from the base station into a dead end hidden inside a hill to the right (representing the train going off somewhere). After a time and reversing out from there, the line has a much easier slope and, assuming I can get the slope shallow enough for adhesion running, would give much wider options of trains to run up the mountain. These are all just early thoughts - I'm nowhere near to tackling that part of the layout yet - but I like to plan ahead and gather ideas. So thanks to everybody for your valuable suggestions - please keep 'em coming. Cheers … Alan Just did some measuring and some basic trigonometry and, using the above plan, I have more space than I thought, 375cm available length in which to rise around 50cm. So an incline of just about 7.6 degrees. This could work with adhesion only with short trains and therefore gives me a lot more options of locos to run on it. Happy with that .. now.. what to buy ..hmmm.. Cheers … Alan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Vecchio Posted August 21, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 21, 2018 Still quite steep. I wouldn't go for more than 4%. On my layout I use 3% ramps for the H0e. With these ramps there is no problem- especially as I have a train with 3 coaches only going up the hill. Tramlines are normally doing steep climbs, so a DMU or EMU may be able to do it (and it would be still prototypical) And of course - as written before - the iron ore train used a rack at 7.1%.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Kettlewell Posted August 21, 2018 Author Share Posted August 21, 2018 Still quite steep. I wouldn't go for more than 4%. On my layout I use 3% ramps for the H0e. With these ramps there is no problem- especially as I have a train with 3 coaches only going up the hill. Tramlines are normally doing steep climbs, so a DMU or EMU may be able to do it (and it would be still prototypical) And of course - as written before - the iron ore train used a rack at 7.1%.... I think I'll set up a narrow board with some track pinned on and do some adhesion testing on varied slopes … Cheers … Alan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Memphis32 Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 Still quite steep. I wouldn't go for more than 4%. On my layout I use 3% ramps for the H0e. With these ramps there is no problem- especially as I have a train with 3 coaches only going up the hill. Tramlines are normally doing steep climbs, so a DMU or EMU may be able to do it (and it would be still prototypical) And of course - as written before - the iron ore train used a rack at 7.1%.... I’m looking at modelling a prototype that climbs at over 6%, adhesion only! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Vecchio Posted August 21, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 21, 2018 Mike, Is this for DMU / EMU / tram or for loco hauled trains? If we speak about the first group I have another Austrian example.... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P%C3%B6stlingbergbahn 11.6%.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Andy Hayter Posted August 21, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 21, 2018 I’m looking at modelling a prototype that climbs at over 6%, adhesion only! A bit out of region but Lisbon tram network St Gervais - Chamonix - Chatelard metre gauge. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Vecchio Posted August 21, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 21, 2018 I think the Lisbon one is the winner if it comes to gradient. 14.5% Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Andy Hayter Posted August 21, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 21, 2018 Yes Chamonix comes in at a mild 11% Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Memphis32 Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 Loco hauled. Is Chamonix not rack? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Kettlewell Posted August 21, 2018 Author Share Posted August 21, 2018 Heh heh.. started something now. Lol I noticed you guys are talking % (per cent) incline, whereas I measured mine by the acute incline angle in degrees. Interesting we have different ways of expressing it. We could also use 1 in xxx ... Cheers ... Alan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Vecchio Posted August 21, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 21, 2018 Being a metric boy I use percentage - easy to understand for an engineers brain... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Kettlewell Posted August 21, 2018 Author Share Posted August 21, 2018 Being a metric boy I use percentage - easy to understand for an engineers brain... Quite right too ... Cheers … Alan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Kettlewell Posted August 21, 2018 Author Share Posted August 21, 2018 Being a metric boy I use percentage - easy to understand for an engineers brain... … making my potential 7 degree slope angle almost 11% ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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