Exactoscale Track Components

[Nick C]

Initially, yes.  It would, I think, be unreasonable to expect the volunteer trade officers of the three societies involved to have to deal with orders from the general public which would probably be considerably more than those from their own members.  

 

Bear in mind also that a lot of clubs/societys are not permitted to sell anything to non-members for insurance/liability reasons - Obviously I don't know if that's the case for these three.

[Guy Rixon]

[...]

I do not want to be a member of Scale 7 because they are a specialized society that build to a different standard than I do. I used to be a member but decided that they where not for me.

As a Society they are great with many nice help and features. 

[...]

 

Understood, but is there any problem in joining a society just to get access to a few items of their stores? That's assuming that the subscription cost is less than the discount on the parts that you need, of course. When I did 2FS, there were several Association members who only did N gauge and I joined the N gauge society for a while (to get their wagon kits) when I only did 2FS.

[hayfield]

Understood, but is there any problem in joining a society just to get access to a few items of their stores? That's assuming that the subscription cost is less than the discount on the parts that you need, of course. When I did 2FS, there were several Association members who only did N gauge and I joined the N gauge society for a while (to get their wagon kits) when I only did 2FS.

 

Guy and Lovstrom

 

Both points of view are correct especially as the parts were not designed and commissioned by said societies

 

There are added benefits from joining a society and as you have said IF these parts are now going to be sold at a reduced price it could even be the cheapest route, though its the first time I have seen a manufacturer charging a premium for supplying its own goods !!

 

On the other hand how many societies can/should you support ? Especially for overseas buyers when they may be members of their own domestic society(s)

 

Neither situation is perfect but atleast the range is/will be still available 

[flubrush]

Guy and Lovstrom

 

Both points of view are correct especially as the parts were not designed and commissioned by said societies

 

There are added benefits from joining a society and as you have said IF these parts are now going to be sold at a reduced price it could even be the cheapest route, though its the first time I have seen a manufacturer charging a premium for supplying its own goods !!

 

On the other hand how many societies can/should you support ? Especially for overseas buyers when they may be members of their own domestic society(s)

 

Neither situation is perfect but atleast the range is/will be still available 

 

I wonder if Exactoscale will be supplying the parts in bulk and not ready packed to the societies.  That in itself would justify a cheaper price to the societies.

 

Jim.

[sharris]

I wonder if Exactoscale will be supplying the parts in bulk and not ready packed to the societies.  That in itself would justify a cheaper price to the societies.

 

Jim.

 

It also strikes me that the societies already have their mechanisms for sales sorted out. Presumably Exactoscale will still have to create/buy-in a system for their website which will be an added cost for selling themselves rather than through the societies - maybe the extra 10% is intended to cover such overheads.

[hayfield]

I am not privy to the economics of retail pricing, now unless the societies are buying at cost they are adding their own markup to an agreed pricing structure, thinking of other companies who supply the trade and retail themselves no additional markup is required. However one explanation I can think of is if prices are cut to the bone then a commercial enterprise has additional expenses and profits must be made,

 

I guess we may get some answers at Scaleforum as to the new pricing structure.  Mr Dukes has quoted the new distribution methods "will enable prices to be ‘lean’ " Lets hope its a reduction in pricing, which will make modellers very happy

[Torper]

I guess we may get some answers at Scaleforum as to the new pricing structure.  Mr Dukes has quoted the new distribution methods "will enable prices to be ‘lean’ " Lets hope its a reduction in pricing, which will make modellers very happy

 

But maybe not C&L.....

I am a bit concerned as to the viability of this new business model.  Personally I'll believe it all when I see it (hopefully in the fairly near future).

 

DT

[hayfield]

But maybe not C&L.....

I am a bit concerned as to the viability of this new business model.  Personally I'll believe it all when I see it (hopefully in the fairly near future).

 

DT

 

 

Certainly if Exactoscale start slashing prices it may cause some ripples. But at the moment the distribution methods are aimed at a very small catchment group. Perhaps its some form of fiendish plan in converting modellers to either P4 or EM gauges !!  

 

Whatever anybody says being at shows does  pay off

[chris p bacon]

Bear in mind also that a lot of clubs/societys are not permitted to sell anything to non-members for insurance/liability reasons - Obviously I don't know if that's the case for these three.

 

 

Never heard of that and don't see how selling to a member or non member can be different or create a liability.

 

We sell (publications) to non members but for a premium to encourage them to be members,  members pay just over cost price. There is no insurance required to sell product and therefore no liability.

[meil]

Never heard of that and don't see how selling to a member or non member can be different or create a liability.

 

We sell (publications) to non members but for a premium to encourage them to be members,  members pay just over cost price. There is no insurance required to sell product and therefore no liability.

And I trust you properly account to HMRC for Corporation Tax on the Non-member sales. That's the reason clubs don't sell to non members.

[chris p bacon]

And I trust you properly account to HMRC for Corporation Tax on the Non-member sales. That's the reason clubs don't sell to non members.

 

That is different to what was stated, the original post was that sales cannot be made for insurance reasons.

Bear in mind also that a lot of clubs/societys are not permitted to sell anything to non-members for insurance/liability reasons

 

 

Clubs and societies (should) have their accounts audited and the payment of corporation tax is something they need to report themselves,  Corp tax does not differentiate between member or non member sales but is levied on the total amount.  If the society still make a profit from member sales then C tax is payable.

This does all depend on how they report in their accounts, and whether they re-invest/claim allowances. 

[hayfield]

That is different to what was stated, the original post was that sales cannot be made for insurance reasons.

 

 

Clubs and societies (should) have their accounts audited and the payment of corporation tax is something they need to report themselves,  Corp tax does not differentiate between member or non member sales but is levied on the total amount.  If the society still make a profit from member sales then C tax is payable.

This does all depend on how they report in their accounts, and whether they re-invest/claim allowances. 

 

 

Dave

 

I think you have hit the nail on the head, though I thought anyone selling items as a business should have insurance for product liability etc. 

 

As you say one of the reasons may be to increase membership

 

Or reduce demand as most societies rely on the goodwill of volunteers to run them.

 

Then of course if turnover exceeds certain limits then VAT comes into play,

 

If the society becomes too successful in trading then it may be a case that some form part or full time paid employment is required with all the associated costs relating to employing someone

[Craigw]

And I trust you properly account to HMRC for Corporation Tax on the Non-member sales. That's the reason clubs don't sell to non members.

 

The Scalefour Society already has a public store.

 

Craig W

[hayfield]

The Scalefour Society already has a public store.

 

Craig W

 

 

Lets hope then Exactoscale track parts are included in it.

[meil]

 

 

 

Clubs and societies (should) have their accounts audited and the payment of corporation tax is something they need to report themselves,  Corp tax does not differentiate between member or non member sales but is levied on the total amount.  If the society still make a profit from member sales then C tax is payable.

This does all depend on how they report in their accounts, and whether they re-invest/claim allowances. 

You're wrong there is a world of difference between surpluses made on member sales and profits made on non-member sales.

[flubrush]

Dave

 

I think you have hit the nail on the head, though I thought anyone selling items as a business should have insurance for product liability etc. 

 

As you say one of the reasons may be to increase membership

 

Or reduce demand as most societies rely on the goodwill of volunteers to run them.

 

Then of course if turnover exceeds certain limits then VAT comes into play,

 

If the society becomes too successful in trading then it may be a case that some form part or full time paid employment is required with all the associated costs relating to employing someone

 

The costs of selling to the public from a specialist society are a serious consideration.  Sales to society members can be packed in a basic fashion with no documentation because the products and their use have probably been covered in the society's journal to the members.   As soon as you start selling to the general public you would have to consider proper packing and literature to minimise complaints from customers who don't have the information that members have.  And,  as you note,  you might have to start employing someone in some form to cope with increased sales if products become popular.  This all costs and are these costs to becovered by the society membership subscriptions,  or do you increase the markup on general public sales so that the additional costs are covered?

 

Jim

Parts Officer,

S Scale Society

[hayfield]

Jim

 

Thanks for considering my thoughts

 

As an aside (and completely off topic) does the S scale society sell chairs for track building and if so what code rail is used please

[martin_wynne]

does the S scale society sell chairs for track building and if so what code rail is used please

 

Hi John,

 

Yes, and code 87 bullhead rail. Also very useful for narrow-gauge in 7mm scale. see: http://www.s-scale.org.uk/track.htm

 

Martin.

[flubrush]

Jim

 

Thanks for considering my thoughts

 

As an aside (and completely off topic) does the S scale society sell chairs for track building and if so what code rail is used please

 

Martin got in first. :-)   The chairs were designed by Len Newman and bear a remarkable ressemblance to the Exactoscale 4mm products,  apart from size.   The rail was specially drawn to scale and the chairs are designed to fit the rail.  

 

Jim.

[hayfield]

Hi John,

 

Yes, and code 87 bullhead rail. Also very useful for narrow-gauge in 7mm scale. see: http://www.s-scale.org.uk/track.htm

 

Martin.

 

Martin

 

Thank you and you have read my mind, I had hoped that the rail would be slightly bigger as code 100 looks far better than code 75, dont know about code 87 as code 82 still looks on the small side

Martin got in first. :-)   The chairs were designed by Len Newman and bear a remarkable ressemblance to the Exactoscale 4mm products,  apart from size.   The rail was specially drawn to scale and the chairs are designed to fit the rail.  

 

Jim.

 

 

Jim

 

Thanks, I have noticed that the 3 mm chairs look like Len's C&L design, I guess somewhere along the line some cross pollination occured  

[chris p bacon]

You're wrong there is a world of difference between surpluses made on member sales and profits made on non-member sales.

 

 

It's far more complicated.

https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/business-income-manual/bim24045

 

When is a surplus a profit, as Trade is Trade.

[Junctionmad]

You're wrong there is a world of difference between surpluses made on member sales and profits made on non-member sales.

not that I am aware of , please enlighten us

[martin_wynne]

How can you make a surplus on member sales? Members are in effect selling items to themselves. The society "trade" operation is simply the distribution of items purchased communally and already owned by the members.

 

Martin.

[PMP]

I’d expect a society to make a mark up on stock they’ve purchased on behalf of the members, to cover society costs and perhaps gain a surplus to purchase future stock, particularly in the case where prices are rising or likely to.

The members get the benefit of buying that stock at less than ‘retail’ prices from other external sources.

[meil]

not that I am aware of , please enlighten us

As Martin says - you can't make a profit from yourself and therefore as regards tax it is not a taxable profit. Profit from non-members is a taxable profit.