First class coaches for the late 30's early 40's

[kandc_au]

Hi all,

I am trying to work out what diagram 1st class coaches were about in this time period.
I know that there were a lot of 3rd and brake 3rds made in the 20's but there didn't appear to be many (if any) first class coaches built in the time period which leaves me to try to work out what was used on trains.

eg: Formation..Brake Comp,Dining, Van 3rd, 1st, 3rd, van 3rd.

This is a formation from 1936.

Would Toplight 1st have been the only things available at that time or would clerestory coaches have been the most likely?
Of course I am open to correction on that. Also given it has NOT been marked as a 70ft that discounts some diagrams.

 

Also on the same sort of note I think it was Adrian who mentioned particular diagrams for a train from a TT in another thread quite a while back now.
How do you work out the diagrams please?
i almost have the feeling from  memory that you referred to a TT which gave these to you but I cannot fathom out that from the one I have.

Any and all help would be much appreciated.
 

Khris

 

[rovex]

The GWR didn't build many all first coaches. A quick look in Russell's GWR Coaches appendix shows.

Dia A13 seventy foot all first toplight stock of 1914

Dia A15 57 ft non corridor stock multibar of 1922

The next diagrams are for the ex articulated stock in the style of the collett 57 ft stock. These were converted to single coaches but were unique one offs. These are Dia A16 & A17 & A18 & A19 originally built 1925. Rebuilt 1936/7

Next illustrated is A20 60 ft flat ended stock built in 1937.

Then A22, again 60 ft and built in 1938.

 

There is presumably a Dia A21 but it's not illustrated.

 

The book would suggest that there were only ten A20 built and twenty of Dia A22.

 

So that's a gap of 12 years between the articulated stock and the later colletts.

 

The next all firsts are the Hawksworths.

 

So to answer your question more recent stock is available but older stock would have been used. Even clerestory stock if it was available. But it's probably more likely that they put a couple of composites in the train if the demand warranted it

[The Fatadder]

While I am modelling slightly later in 1947, I have come across the same lack of first class coaches in formations. In fact the only service I can justify one in was the riveria Express,

 

I initially went for an A20 but have an A22 to build as well. I would say either would be a good choice for a late 30s service newly built.

[Steamport Southport]

Don't forget that a lot of the trains in the era split so many First Class passengers would be traveling in CKs or BCKs. You may have several BCKs in a typical train.

 

It was probably only the prestige trains which usually had dedicated sets that had full Firsts.

 

 

Sample formations

6.0pm Paddington-Newbury-Westbury-Yeovil-Weymouth 1931     

 

                                                                          BCK/TK/BTK/RC/BCK/TK/CK/BTK                                                                              

                                                                          I     Weymouth    I      Newbury       I

 

 

3.0pm Paddington-Malvern Wells 1938               BTK*/RC*/CK/BTK/BCK¹/BCK²/ SLIP T                                                                              

                                                                             I   Malvern Wells   I                    I Oxford I                                                                     

 

                                                                             *70’ stock          ¹ Stourbridge  ² Cheltenham

 

 

 

9.07am Paddington-Exeter 1951                         BTK/TK/CK/CK/TK/BCK/RU/BCK                                                                              

                                                                             I               Exeter            I  Bristol  I

 

 

I know it's not copied well, but nicked of Comet's website page for the E128 BCK

 

http://www.cometmodels.co.uk/data/Catalog/pdf/W9.pdf

 

 

Jason

[kandc_au]

Thanks for the responses guys. Appreciated.
Jason....could you advise where there is a list to convert those letters to first/brake/composites please?

Fatadder, Yes I knew there was a break where firsts weren't built for a while. It is mentioned in the Harris book.

What had me puzzled was the fact that there a a few listed in the 1936 Timetable so there had to be a few about that were NOT 70' as those ones are identified!

 

Khris

[The Fatadder]

Thanks for the responses guys. Appreciated.

Jason....could you advise where there is a list to convert those letters to first/brake/composites please?

Fatadder, Yes I knew there was a break where firsts weren't built for a while. It is mentioned in the Harris book.

What had me puzzled was the fact that there a a few listed in the 1936 Timetable so there had to be a few about that were NOT 70' as those ones are identified!

 

Khris

Ref the letters

B = Brake

C = Composite

F = First

K = Corridor

R = Restaurant

U = I think is unclassified but I would need to check that

SLIP = a slip coach

 

So a BTK would be a corridor brake third, while a BT would be a brake third (non corridor)

Edited August 31, 2018 by The Fatadder

[Il Grifone]

It's a strange idea from one of the lesser railways, which was adopted by British Railways who added S for second to the list.

[Steamport Southport]

Here's the full list.

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_coach_designations

 

 

 

 

Jason

[kandc_au]

Ref the letters

B = Brake

C = Composite

F = First

K = Corridor

R = Restaurant

U = I think is unclassified but I would need to check that

SLIP = a slip coach

 

So a BTK would be a corridor brake third, while a BT would be a brake third (non corridor)

Thanks for that!

 

Khris