david.hill64 Posted September 8, 2018 Share Posted September 8, 2018 I've been following Rob Pulham's build thread on the J6 and noticed the conundrum with the tender build. I have one to do, so thought to advance it in the queue to see if I can sort it out (unless Rob gets there first). Rob is adding extra detail (replacement springs and inside valve gear) whereas this will be an out of the box build. I didn't need to break down the etches to fit into a box, so this is what we start with: So will I finish before Rob? Ready, Steady, Go!! 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted September 8, 2018 Share Posted September 8, 2018 Gentlemen: start your engines... ...oh hang on, someone already has.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
N15class Posted September 8, 2018 Share Posted September 8, 2018 Will follow with interest. Someone was chatting to me about a commission build on one of these. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
david.hill64 Posted September 9, 2018 Author Share Posted September 9, 2018 Explodes on the grid!! A double check of the chosen prototype shows that it was fitted with the Ivatt Horseshoe tender and not the Ivatt Self-Trimming variety, so I have the wrong etches............wibble. Have to decide now whether or not to get on with the loco or park this and get on with something else. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibateg Posted September 9, 2018 Share Posted September 9, 2018 I'll be watching - as I have one, maybe I should join in! Tony Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper John Posted September 9, 2018 Share Posted September 9, 2018 Explodes on the grid!! A double check of the chosen prototype shows that it was fitted with the Ivatt Horseshoe tender and not the Ivatt Self-Trimming variety, so I have the wrong etches............wibble. Have to decide now whether or not to get on with the loco or park this and get on with something else. Is this a cop out David, Change prototype Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
david.hill64 Posted September 9, 2018 Author Share Posted September 9, 2018 I'll be watching - as I have one, maybe I should join in! Tony Please do: which tender? If it's the Stirling, we'll have all three on the go! Is this a cop out David, Change prototype Not a cop out: prototype is LNER 3550. Commission build so cannot change it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
david.hill64 Posted September 9, 2018 Author Share Posted September 9, 2018 I decided to carry on. I'll see if I can get the tender replaced and sent out. Will just need the etches as the castings and fitting are the same. As always, we start with the coupling rods. These are quite flimsy and need care in handling. They were sweated together and the holes for the bushes reamed to size. The kit is a blow up from a 4mm design and contains three sets of spaces marked '00', EM and S4. The EM ones are best for finescale 0 gauge. There are only two of them and the frames are quite thin so care has to be taken in handling. Having soldered the bushes in place I used an alignment jig to ensure all was correct and square. It's an old kit and probably hand drawn so it is worth making sure that the alignment is correct. As it happens I didn't have any issues. There are two spacers plus a motor mounting plate which I am probably not going to fit. The spacers were tack soldered then fully soldered in place. The instructions say to use 1mm wire to form the brake hanger supports. This was a surprise to me as the packing list doesn't include 1mm wire... Looks like an update needed but it's not a stock size. I guess 0.9mm has been substituted. That will become clearer later. Anyway some 1mm wire was found in the bits box and three lengths added. These also add rigidity to the frames. So a reasonable start. I will need to form a torque reaction arm for the gearbox, but I will need to make some progress with the body to be certain it will be in the right place. The gearbox is an ABC with a maxon motor. 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
david.hill64 Posted September 11, 2018 Author Share Posted September 11, 2018 I decided to move to footplate assembly and have a word of advice: Before attempting to bend up the valence jig, score the bend lines heavily. Even if the jig breaks as a result, you can always solder it together. The reason for this advice is that the valence jig is on the nickel silver frame etch and contains many small parts in the middle. The result of this is that there is minimal metal on the inside of the jig next to the fold line in certain areas. The result is that if you do as I did and try to fold it without having scribed first, even with proper bending bars and a hold and fold, the jig will distort. It took me ages to get it square again. I also annealed the footplate in the areas to be bent before attaching it to the valances and then cutting the jig free. Pictures later. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
david.hill64 Posted September 12, 2018 Author Share Posted September 12, 2018 Over on Rob Pulham's J6 thread, Dave Lester has kindly advised that 3550 ran with a Horseshoe tender, confirming that I did indeed bring the wrong tender etches with me..........Let's hope that Dibateg is building the J6 with the Stirling tender, then we'll have the set! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davelester Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 Over on Rob Pulham's J6 thread, Dave Lester has kindly advised that 3550 ran with a Horseshoe tender, confirming that I did indeed bring the wrong tender etches with me..........Let's hope that Dibateg is building the J6 with the Stirling tender, then we'll have the set! If Mr Dibateg is putting a Stirling tender behind a J6, he's wrong! (I've just checked on his behalf.) The issues to look for with the Stirling tenders are: they're all different sizes! Different widths, different heights (though mostly the same length of side panels and, on the C's and D's at least, with the same frames), different coal bunker arrangements, and of course whether they were built for goods engines and have 3' 6" wheels, or for passenger engines with 4'0" wheels. Phew! The best place to find them is behind LNER J3/J4s, which were as individually distinctive as their tenders. I have a pair of LRM 4mm version in the "to-build" pile, along with some very nice Narrow Planet works plates from Dubs and Kitsons. The contractor-built engines had brass splasher beading, which was often scraped clean by the crews, whereas Doncaster-built versions did not. Apparently, my plates are individually numbered, but I think I'll need a scanning electron microscope to tell! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
david.hill64 Posted September 13, 2018 Author Share Posted September 13, 2018 If Mr Dibateg is putting a Stirling tender behind a J6, he's wrong! (I've just checked on his behalf.) The issues to look for with the Stirling tenders are: they're all different sizes! Different widths, different heights (though mostly the same length of side panels and, on the C's and D's at least, with the same frames), different coal bunker arrangements, and of course whether they were built for goods engines and have 3' 6" wheels, or for passenger engines with 4'0" wheels. Phew! The best place to find them is behind LNER J3/J4s, which were as individually distinctive as their tenders. I have a pair of LRM 4mm version in the "to-build" pile, along with some very nice Narrow Planet works plates from Dubs and Kitsons. The contractor-built engines had brass splasher beading, which was often scraped clean by the crews, whereas Doncaster-built versions did not. Apparently, my plates are individually numbered, but I think I'll need a scanning electron microscope to tell! Thank you for this. The note that I have for the J6 states that some of them ran with Stirling class D tenders and strangely according to the packing notes, this is the default choice packed with the kit.........GNR tenders are certainly a minefield! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davelester Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 Thank you for this. The note that I have for the J6 states that some of them ran with Stirling class D tenders and strangely according to the packing notes, this is the default choice packed with the kit.........GNR tenders are certainly a minefield! Having made that confident assertion on the basis of Malcolm's list of tender attachments, I then came across a photo of a J6 with a Stirling tender last night in Yeadon! The explanation is that Malcolm Crawley's lists start around 1930, and the photo is of a J6 in the early twenties. It is tricky indeed, isn't it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
david.hill64 Posted September 16, 2018 Author Share Posted September 16, 2018 So here is the footplate and valances. I have already cut them from the jig, even though the instructions suggest cutting the jig away after the superstructure is largely complete. I could pretend that I made a conscious decision to do this because I realised that the distortions in my poorly bent up jig could be a problem, but in reality I got ahead of the instructions. So now I need to be careful not to introduce any distortion into the running plate. To help strengthen the assembly I have already added the buffer beam and drawbar. Next up the cab. Alternates are provided depending on which series of locos is being modelled. The beading is taken from the nickel silver etch. This was soldered into the cab etch. Folding the cab was not easy. I laid the spectacle plate onto the cab to mark out where the bends will be and then used some steel rod as a former. The difficulty is that the bend is close to the cutaway in the cab side, which tends to promote distortion. The good news is that the cab and spectacle plate match each other for size. The cab was preformed as much as possible and the spectacle plate soldered in place. The instructions say to solder the cab in place at this time but I want to make up the other sub-assemblies first to see how they fit together. I am now in the process of adding the splashers. The centre and rear comprise fold up sides with tops to add, whereas the front ones are separate etches. As this is a 536 series it includes the sandboxes. The instructions state to fold up the splasher into a box before soldering to the footplate. I found this so having first annealed the etch so that it would be easier to shape later, I soldered the sides of the assembly to the footplate and then formed the top to shape and soldered up. Next up will be the smokebox saddle then boiler. 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAD Posted September 16, 2018 Share Posted September 16, 2018 Hi David, Nice work. Removing the jig sooner rather than later, gives the opportunity to offer up the frames, to check for any clearance issues. However, you will need to handle it with care now. Cheers, Peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
david.hill64 Posted September 16, 2018 Author Share Posted September 16, 2018 I finished fitting the end plates to the splasher tops, then folded up the saddle and fixed that. Attention next to the boiler. I have the advantage of working from the flat etch, which means that drilling the holes for the washouts and mudholes is a bit easier than if the boiler is already rolled. It is a dilemma I have this kit as the boiler does two types of J6 requiring different holes to be opened out. I'll see how Rob gets on with this before deciding what to do. Here we are having done the drilling and opening out for the mudhole covers. A test fit against the spectacle plate shows where the bends for the lower firebox will be required. Finally, getting ready to solder the seam. Not as far as I hoped but not too bad. 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
david.hill64 Posted September 19, 2018 Author Share Posted September 19, 2018 Work has continued on the boiler. I soldered the seam: Then I formed the firebox area using a hold and fold and some round steel bar. The spectacle plate is used to check the shape. Then we add the two spacing rings at each end of the smokebox. Followed by the inner wrapper using the two holes for the snifting valve and chimney to get the location correct. The outer wrapper was then added. After that I made a trial fit of the boiler to the footplate. This showed that the saddle needed quite a lot of metal removed from it as it was too high. This was confirmed by trying the cover plate. I used a rotary sander to remove about 1-2 mm from the front circular cut out and about 1mm from the rear. With that done I added the boiler bands. Still some cleaning up required. Then I will add the washout plugs and mud hole doors. A trial fit has shown that it should go together quite nicely, but I will continue to delay this until I have more of the parts ready to try. I think I will make the firebox spectacle plate joint first and then fit the boiler and cab in place. The instructions suggest fitting spectacle plate windows, cab handrails etc at a later time but I think it will be much easier to fit them now and clean up. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Pulham Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 The outer wrapper was then added. After that I made a trial fit of the boiler to the footplate. This showed that the saddle needed quite a lot of metal removed from it as it was too high. This was confirmed by trying the cover plate. I used a rotary sander to remove about 1-2 mm from the front circular cut out and about 1mm from the rear. With that done I added the boiler bands. Thanks David, I will watch out for that one when I get to it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
david.hill64 Posted October 3, 2018 Author Share Posted October 3, 2018 I fitted the washout plugs and mudhole doors and then fitted teh boiler to the spectacle plate. Then added the clothing ring. Here it is before cleaning up. Then I joined this assembly to the footplate. Then tried the fit against the frames. I had added the cab handrails while the cab/boiler were still free. The cab floor and splashers were added next. Firebox sides and rear splasher added. Some filler required around the front end joints and to fill some small gaps at the join between spectacle plate and splashers. There will be another interlude now as Mum is il and I have had to return to UK. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
david.hill64 Posted November 4, 2018 Author Share Posted November 4, 2018 It's been a while since I posted, mainly because I haven't done anything. Mum's illness proved terminal, so I have been dealing with that. I am back in Taiwan now and had a pleasant day at the workbench today. It was nice to concentrate on this and get my mind off other things. I had constructed the body so that I could do a test fit of the motor. With the body having gone far enough along I reverted to the frames and have fixed the brake gear, buffer beam gussets and guard irons. I have also fitted a gearbox reaction bar in place. The gearbox will drive the rear axle. Next stage is to make sure the chassis rolls with wheels and rods attached. Assuming no problems the frames will be put aside for painting. I'll do the tender chassis next so that the pair can be sprayed together. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
N15class Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 Sorry to hear of your lose. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
david.hill64 Posted November 4, 2018 Author Share Posted November 4, 2018 Sorry to hear of your lose. Thank you Peter and also every one else for your kind thoughts. It was peaceful and quick so about as good as it could be. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deano747 Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 Sincere condolences to you and your family!! Regards, Deano. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petebe Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 So sad to hear of your loss. My thoughts are with you and your family. Pete Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
david.hill64 Posted November 10, 2018 Author Share Posted November 10, 2018 I've had a couple of sessions at the bench this week and progress has been made with the tender. The frames are a bit thin, but no problems in putting them together and with the brakes in place are quite robust. Work on the tender body commences with the lower parts. Then I cleaned up the loco frames prior to spraying. I had been storing the wheels in a ziploc plastic bag in the hope that it would save them getting rusty. After 24 hours this is what I found: A couple of hours later they were all cleaned up and ready for spraying/oiling. Must remember to and spray them as soon as they are out of the packet. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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