Modern Outline Kits Class 4F

[Hull Paragon]

After a short break due to a) Contractors working in the house, b) Decorating after the contractors had finished, and c) A rather heavy birthday celebration that took a whole weekend out!, I am sort of back in business.

 

The brake actuators and associated bits and pieces went together OK but the pins on the actuator are really easy to bend so care needs to be taken not to break them off.

 

 

This fits into the chassis assembly thus:

 

 

The brake cylinder neeeded to be cleaned up so I used my useful little hand tool!

 

 

The next series of steps have given me some difficulty and hence a lot of thought; not in the work involved, but in the order of assembly.

 

The instructions as well as being very detailed with the excellent photographs to guide you are also frustratingly lacking at times. The installation of the brake shoes and stretchers is scheduled to follow the above then the scoop assembly. However, there are no pictures of the brakes fitted in the chassis and I can't quite decide if the brake assembly will impede the installation of the scoop. (In fact some of the pictures showing chassis fixtures are taken at different stages in the construction, out of synch with the main body of instructions). This is further compounded by the fact that the instructions then call for stretchers to be screwed to the external frames, (especially as the scoop operating link passes through the stretcher).....but the frames hang loose unsupported by the footplate as does the chassis which can't be screwed to the footplate yet. It is not for another 6 or 7 pages of instructions that the frames and chassis are fitted to the footplate.

 

I am going to part build the scoop assembly then I might skip straight to the tender body construction so that I can see how the frames can be attached to the footplate with the body attached, with the brakes and scoop assembly fully installed. This is very difficult to show everyone but if anyone (Dibateg?) has experience of this it would be useful to share their knowledge.

 

In the meantime the scoop actuating lever is made up of a 30mm piece of steel rod with the balance weights and other elements slid on.....(Why this is in so many pieces when the brake actuating lever is a single casting is not clear!).

 

 

They all go together like this but please note that as yet I have not fixed everything into position.

 

 

Note the stretcher below the chassis assembly....

 

That's it so far.

Edited October 1, 2018 by Hull Paragon

[Hull Paragon]

I thought I had added the picture of the brake actuator shaft in position with soop and brake handles attached. I hadn't, so here it is. I have not soldered the rod in place in th ebrake lever yet...this is due to to not quite knowing how long it should be such that it fits when the footpalte if fitted - or when the chassis is fitted to the footplate!....(see below)

 

 

I decided to test assemble the footplate, chassis and frames to see how it goes together, and to assess the space available if I fitted it out of order as it were.

 

 

The single stay is just another test measurement...it is not fixed yet

 

I confirmed my thinking that there was not enough space to fit the tender body tags if the frames are done first. You can see the body slot in this shot. If the wheels are fitted....forget it!

 

 

There is still the problem of fitting the scoop lever through the stretcher.

 

 

Conversely, it is all clear on the other side!

 

 

The exercise was worth it though. Obviously, the chassis has to be fixed to the footplate (10BA bolts) and the scoop link assembled through the stretcher which will have to be left to hang loose until the frames go in.

 

So I will fix the balance weights in position, then do the brakes.with the scoop link last. The frames will have to wait until the body is attached.

[Mr Grumpy]

Hi Ray,

Having built a couple of Dave’s MOK kits, I can appreciate your frustration with the instruction manual:-) on the whole though they were pretty comprehensive and well detailed.

I’m enjoying your build and look forward to keeping up with your updates on your build. I’m considering starting my 9f to keep me out of mischief for some time :-)

I was interested in the little hand tool you use to assist with cleaning up the castings. I have seen similar, but could you tell us the name of the one you are using please?

 

Thanks, Richard

[Hull Paragon]

Hi Ray,

Having built a couple of Dave’s MOK kits, I can appreciate your frustration with the instruction manual:-) on the whole though they were pretty comprehensive and well detailed.

I’m enjoying your build and look forward to keeping up with your updates on your build. I’m considering starting my 9f to keep me out of mischief for some time :-)

I was interested in the little hand tool you use to assist with cleaning up the castings. I have seen similar, but could you tell us the name of the one you are using please?

 

Thanks, Richard

Hello Richard

 

The strange thing is that the instructions are so good it is an even bigger pain than usual when something is missing......what I mean is, that with most kits, the instructions are so bad that something missing doesn't matter that much as you are almost scratchbuilding anyway....the MOk kit is so comprehensive that when there is a gap it feels like a chasm! (Hope that makes sense)

 

I haven't communicated any of my findings with Dave Sharp (he knows I am doing the thread) but I will bring him up to date with my findings.....

 

I don't know the name of the tool but I got it from Squires....it's a sort of helping hands and very useful for working on round or cylindrical objects....you can buy additional pins too.

 

Ray

[Hull Paragon]

I decided to do the tender body before I finished the brakes etc.........the process is much quicker than that of late; it is good to see something taking shape.

 

There was one moment when I had to stop and wonder what to do. Two parts needed to be fitted without any tabs....I had to set it up myself for goodness sake!! I also realised that the footplate I had built earlier and the footplate for this stage were different....

 

Here is the (new) footplate with interior bits and pieces attached

 

 

And as the instructions suggest, a test fit with the front plate.......

 

 

I actually have to go into work tomorrow so I'll try to get more done on Friday. I have pre cut the parts I need from the main fret....the hinges for the doors which are next are sort of N gauge size so I'll get my magnifying glass out!

 

Ray

Edited October 3, 2018 by Hull Paragon

[Hull Paragon]

Hi Ray,

Having built a couple of Dave’s MOK kits, I can appreciate your frustration with the instruction manual:-) on the whole though they were pretty comprehensive and well detailed.

I’m enjoying your build and look forward to keeping up with your updates on your build. I’m considering starting my 9f to keep me out of mischief for some time :-)

I was interested in the little hand tool you use to assist with cleaning up the castings. I have seen similar, but could you tell us the name of the one you are using please?

 

Thanks, Richard

I had a quick look at Squires website...the tool is called a Universal Work Holder....page 34 of their on line catalogue.....at less than a tenner I have found it very useful.

 

Ray

[Mr Grumpy]

Many thanks:-)

[Hull Paragon]

I have finished off the tender coalface. Nothing special about this.

 

The components for the coalface were put together:

 

 

Note that I have bent the straps up.....these have two functions...one is to form the alignment for the locker doors. Then once the overlay is in place the locking bars are bent to shape and soldered in place. The straps then fold up over the locking bars.

 

Everything fitted beautifully but I didn't do quite so well with the hinges.....they are visible in the picture above and the small ones are tiny

 

 

They sit on pads on the locker overlay.....the instructions say glue or solder. I always solder if I can but an iron is of no use here. So I got my old Resistance Soldering Unit out and with a small bit of solder paint, set everything up. The problem for me was that the RSU probe was quite big in relation to the hinge and I had a few problems getting them to stay aligned....I almost succeeded!

 

 

Finally a quick test fit with the tender body to make sure nothing has moved.

 

 

 

I'm hoping to get the tender skin folded and fitted tomorrow. I will also investigate the tender glazing about which there is nothing in the instructions. There are some window frames in the etchings but no reference in the text. Perhaps I will use them as templates for clear plastic and then glue them in place......should have thought of this before though..........

Edited October 8, 2018 by Hull Paragon

[PAD]

 

"I'm hoping to get the tender skin folded and fitted tomorrow. I will also investigate the tender glazing about which there is nothing in the instructions. There are some window frames in the etchings but no reference in the text. Perhaps I will use them as templates for clear plastic and then glue them in place......should have thought of this before though.........."

 

Hi Ray,

For  the  4MT tank, there is  a template in the  instructions for cutting out the  glazing. Strange there isn't one for  this.  Excellent build by the  way.

Cheers,

Peter

Edited October 9, 2018 by PAD

[Hull Paragon]

 

 

"I'm hoping to get the tender skin folded and fitted tomorrow. I will also investigate the tender glazing about which there is nothing in the instructions. There are some window frames in the etchings but no reference in the text. Perhaps I will use them as templates for clear plastic and then glue them in place......should have thought of this before though.........."

 

Hi Ray,

For  the  4MT tank, there is  a template in the  instructions for cutting out the  glazing. Strange there isn't one for  this.  Excellent build by the  way.

Cheers,

Peter

 

The instructions refer now and then to an 'Appendix' which should show things like handrail bending details.....but there isn't one. Perhaps I should ask Dave?

 

Ray

[markjj]

Hello Ray don't beat up the instructions too much... Dave has a habit of writing about things after the event... That's why it's a must to read the instructions though then back again.... It's very rare that he misses anything it may not come up in the right order though ;-)

[Hull Paragon]

Hello Ray don't beat up the instructions too much... Dave has a habit of writing about things after the event... That's why it's a must to read the instructions though then back again.... It's very rare that he misses anything it may not come up in the right order though ;-)

Thanks Mark

 

I have noticed this as I have read/looked at the instructions from end to end. But still no appendix!

 

Ray

[Hull Paragon]

I attacked the tender skin next. It is all in one piece and the instructions tell us that any bending must be EXACT! I usually work to the nearest dockyard  so I had to tread carefully. The outer skin has all the rivet detail:

 

 

The inner has the half etched guidelines for the bends.

 

 

It would have been easy to bend the sides in a set of bending bars but if you look closely, the half etched line doesn't go all the way from side to side. I could have created a strip of metal or wood to hold it firm but instead I took the end bolt out of my bending bars and set the skin up in a vice. This worked perfectly although it was awkward to set up properly.

 

 

There is a gauge which is used to get the angles right. It is simply held against the bended metal and run from end to end.....if there is no light the angle is OK. The picture shows the gauge but not at the right angle.

 

 

After a relatively short time, the tender body is formed.

 

 

After testing it fairly regularly during the process, it fits easily onto the tender framework. One minor issue was that I solderd in the water gauge and then found that the locker assembly wouldn't fit properly on the tabs. I had to take it out, fix the tabs and replace it. This is the before view.

 

 

The weekend is nigh and I won't get anything done......I fitted the scoop, scoop link and all the brakes and rodding this morning.....not without difficulty as setting the rod lengths is not simple (not for me anyway). However, I used a 12BA bolt with a nut inside the frames to secure the brakes and this allowed some back to front movement to help set everything up without binding the wheels......So after all that, I had a quick look at it all with the chassis and frames temporarily attached. It's looking like a tender now!

 

 

Ray

Edited October 12, 2018 by Hull Paragon

[Hull Paragon]

Time passes and it seems as though weeks have gone by and not much progress has been made. But some progress is better than none!

 

I have spent my time tidying up and adding fittings to the tender body. I am forever washing/brushing flux residue off at present too. Oh....and one of the retaining nuts on the chassis fell off. Sod's Law made sure it was not easily accessible so that took a while to sort out.

 

Most of the tender work is easy stuff really but sometimes just setting things up properly takes a while and although I am not going to be ultra perfect, I don't want too many obvious things looking wrong. The tender vents and brackets are fitted along with footplate standards and operating handles. I've also added ramps inside the coal space and handrails to the rear. I've set them 1mm off the sides but I can't make my mind up if that is too much. It looks too much but 1mm scale is only 13/4 inches or so real size so it should be near enough.

 

The doorway plates were not simple to bend and locate. Each time the curve at the bottom is altered, the vertical element that fits in the floor moves so the forming has to be done in 2 dimensions to get it right. The instructions call for pre worked copper rod to be fitted for beading. I don't know why but I just couldn't get the solder to stick one metal to the other (nickel silver) so in the end I cheated by soldering 0.7mm brass rod on the edges instead. I don't think too many people will notice! The photo looks worse than it is in the flesh. There is not as much 'roundness' spilling over as it appears below.

 

 

 

The photos don't seem to be as crisp as normal so apologies for that....I'll redo them before i write about the next steps......which by coincidence, will be.....the steps!

 

Ray

[Hull Paragon]

I haven't done the steps....yet. I had a sudden realisation which resulted in a change of plan. The MOK kit is modelled on 43106, the preserved 4MT on the SVR. The handrail on the side of the cab on this loco follows the step profile. That is, the handrail drops down, curves under the footplate and is located under the curve of the step.

 

 

My prototype is different. The step has been converted to the curved type but the handrail is on the face of the tender front.

 

 

Of course I realised this after the tender has been assembled so I had to drill new holes centrally in quite a tight location.....just 2mm wide.

 

 

I decided to ustilise a trick I have used before to good effect when I did a Britannia tender side and that was to take a short strip of nickel silver 2mm wide, drill a small hole centrally in it and measure down to the next hole which is similarly drilled. It is a bit of a leap to call it a jig but in essence that is what it is. Snip/file one end to set the height of the lower hole. (I have to admit that I guessed the locations of the holes from photographs....they look OK so hopefully they are not far out.

 

 

Hold this in place over the metal and drill through. The holes are in the right places and there is no movement of the drill on the shiny metal...and there is no need to centre pop a guide which could bend or distort the metal. Use a reamer to enlarge the holes to accept the handrail knobs. Then solder the first knob and fit both knobs in the holes. Solder the second knob and remove the assembly to clean it up.

 

 

I glued the assembly into place. All that remains is to fill the hole in the side sheet that is no longer used.

 

 

I then spent some time tweaking and fiddling to fit the final bits to the body.....here is the result so far.

 

 

Ray

 

 

 

 

[Hull Paragon]

I have been adding brass bits and pieces to the tender. Nothing special in terms of fitting, just cutting the castings, cleaning up and fitting. I'll post a picture at some time showing the buffing gear (which I epoxied on) and the rear lifting lugs and plates as well as the dome and filler. I also did the buffers which are straightforward. They are fully enclosed and use a tiny plate inside the buffer to enclose a slot into which a pin fits. The pin holds the buffer with the spring inserted and nothing protrudes from the back of the housing. I must ask David if they are compatible with the Britannias as I need some for a Scorpio kit that is awaiting in the background.

 

Is it just me or do 2 minute jobs always take all day? I have been making the steps up. What a palaver! For some reason I just couldn't fit the steps in the supports with enough control to set the step depth properly and then solder up. I will not embarrass myself by telling all how long the four took me..........but at one point I thought about going back to sea for a couple of years.........

 

Here are all the components

 

 

It takes time to fold everything up and make sure that all is square. Eventually it begins to come together.

 

 

The lower parts fold up to form the supports for the steps. The lower step is simply placed at the bottom and gripped tight before soldering. Moving up the picture, the next image is the middle step part soldered. The tabs are bent inside the supports and form a location guide for the step. It is essential to bend these tiny tabs absolutely square. If you are careless the step will not be parallel to the bottom step....as I discovered. After soldering, the tabs are broken off....so don't solder them to the step! The top image is the whole thing assembled.

 

I thought that while I was still alive I would build the ladder. This is simplified by the inclusion of a fold up jig which allows the builder to line everything up perfectly before soldering. I left the ladder in the jig to clean it up just to provide some rigidity.

 

 

This didn't take long so it was a good decision to keep going. I'll fit everything on Friday when I do the handrails on the tender top. They should be easy enough...............that should conclude the tender build.

 

I now have a spare ladder jig for sale. The jig is ready to run and has been tested thoroughly in my workshop.  It's yours for only £554 (which is slightly less than the MOK kit),  plus postage. (Well, you never know!).

 

 

 

Ray

Edited November 7, 2018 by Hull Paragon

[Hull Paragon]

Almost done. The handrails on the top are done, the steps are fitted as is the ladder....all taking too much time but I only have the roof, vacuum pipes and lamp irons to do now .......here are a couple of pictures.....the steps look better in the photographs. They seem really clunky on the model so I hope a coat of paint will change that. Strangely the rear handrail looks worse on the photo.....the gap between the rear and the top of the body needs looking at.

 

 

 

It always seems to me that a model looks significantly better when the handrails and buffers are fitted.......

 

There are no comments of late so I might end the thread after I post the finished tender pictures. But many thanks for all the 'likes' etc. Much appreciated!

 

Ray

 

 

[daifly]

Ray

Any chance you could post your photos full-size? These thumbnails are a challenge for my ageing eyes. If the file size isn't at least 100K its probably too small. I'll bet I'm not the only one struggling!

Thanks

Dave

[Western Star]

Any chance you could post your photos full-size? These thumbnails are a challenge for my ageing eyes. If the file size isn't at least 100K its probably too small. I'll bet I'm not the only one struggling!

Me too.

 

I may not have commented before, that does not mean that your work is not appreciated... please continue to provide us with content and photos of a worthwhile build.

 

thank you Graham

[Park]

Yes any build thread is a valuable reference source for us all, as you never know when it might just be sitting your workbench. I especially like to see these builds of quality kits. Please carry on showing us your progress with is loco

[Hull Paragon]

Ray

Any chance you could post your photos full-size? These thumbnails are a challenge for my ageing eyes. If the file size isn't at least 100K its probably too small. I'll bet I'm not the only one struggling!

Thanks

Dave

Dave

 

The photos shouldn't be too small. I have tried to hit a balance between size of image and size of file.....I will increase them a bit and hope this helps you.

 

Ray

Me too.

 

I may not have commented before, that does not mean that your work is not appreciated... please continue to provide us with content and photos of a worthwhile build.

 

thank you Graham

Graham

 

Thanks for your encouragement.

 

Ray

Yes any build thread is a valuable reference source for us all, as you never know when it might just be sitting your workbench. I especially like to see these builds of quality kits. Please carry on showing us your progress with is loco

Thanks Park

[daifly]

Dave

The photos shouldn't be too small. I have tried to hit a balance between size of image and size of file.....I will increase them a bit and hope this helps you.

Ray

 

Ray

The photos ARE small. Look at other threads and you'll see what I mean. File size isn't your problem unless you have a bandwidth problem. The site limit for an individual file is 32Mb! Please post BIG files so that we can see the detail! A 44Kb file won't take any enlargement without losing detail.

Cheers

Dave

[dibateg]

Yep - keep it coming Ray - it's always interesting to see loco builds. bigger pics would help too!

 

Many people look at a thread, but don't necessarily like or comment...

 

Regards

Tony

[Hull Paragon]

Yep - keep it coming Ray - it's always interesting to see loco builds. bigger pics would help too!

 

Many people look at a thread, but don't necessarily like or comment...

 

Regards

Tony

Thanks Tony

[Hull Paragon]

Ray

The photos ARE small. Look at other threads and you'll see what I mean. File size isn't your problem unless you have a bandwidth problem. The site limit for an individual file is 32Mb! Please post BIG files so that we can see the detail! A 44Kb file won't take any enlargement without losing detail.

Cheers

Dave

Dave

 

This is a picture of one of my posts on my laptop....you will see that it fills the screen from top to bottom. It's perfectly clear on my screen. Maybe there is a difference of setting or something but apart from the last half dozen pictures or so I haven't changed anything since I started the thread. This picture has been saved at the same rate as before (which I will change in a moment) but the main thing is the size of the picture on screen.

 

 

I appreciate that the limit is 32Mb. My unedited pictures are about 5Mb. However, they take an age to upload at that size which is why I reduce them in file size. Anyway after this, I will increase them.....let me know when they reach a reasonable size for you.

 

Ray