Godstone Road - Platforms and 3rd Rail

[Lacathedrale]

With great help from a number of RMWebbers, here is a topic to chronicle the actual construction of the layout that has spent the better part of a year in gestation across a number of threads. The idea is to build a layout that can in theory be completed within a year or so, rather than a decade-long odyssey or something which requires either lots of upfront investment to get to an operational stage (i.e. Gauge 0) or much more time practising behind the iron (i.e. 2FS). Both of those scales are things I want to pursue in the fullness of time, but I feel like finding an achievable middle ground is more important. The motto of this layout, to paraphrase my boss: Stop starting, and start finishing. Maybe I can even try exhibiting?

 

Era and Location

One of the major challenges I've found with model railways is finding something to keep me interested in a plan or prototype after the initial enthusiasm has waned - I've got most of the way through a number of plans only to completely lose interest. After a foray into mainline LNER and LMS traffic, I've decided that a better choice is to keep myself grounded in what was around me as I was growing up. When I was young, I spent more than a few sleepless nights watching Class 33's moving between Hither Green and Grove Park, out of my bedroom window. The first time I got interested in railways as an adult was being blasted by a Class 37 roaring through Lee station on my way home from work, and I often have Class 73's pootling past my back garden still.  I commuted on slam-door stock (just), I have dim childhood memories of pre-NSE multiple units, and my father got me a Lima 'Burma Star' class 33 for the trainset he built me when I was a kid.  All of this points to a layout set in the southern region in the 70's or 80's.

 

Style

There were MANY little branch line termini in the area I'm living - some gone like Addiscombe Road, Greenwich Park, the real Katherine Street, and some still extant like Hayes and Bromley North, and yet more fallen victim to Beeching's Axe like Elmer's End and Purley. My layout is themed around one of these smaller suburban termini. I would like to include some freight traffic, and siting the layout in suburbia rather than an urban location affords that pleasure. Taking a great inspiration from Minories and the platform allocations from Purley, i think I have come up with something broadly plausible.

 

The scenics will be red brick SER-style with very gentle gradients. I'm undecided on season but I think either late autumn or winter - no green grass hre. I'd like to include a rail bridge and embankment - maybe that can come later on my so-called 'scenic extension' board.

 

Layout Plan

The following plan is in XtrkCAD rather than Templot, but hopefully gives a top level view, showing the two 5' x 18' boards which make up the visible section of this layout's iteration.

 

 

Note: I have noted an extension containing a proper station building and a crossover on a 3' board, and I am also provisioning for another 4' extension on the left between the station throat and fiddle yard - but these will be very much later developments if at all, I think.

 

• The south bay platform road becomes an engineering siding (as at Addiscombe and Purley) - and also functions as a loco pocket for Minories.
• The north bay platform is in-situ but largely unused
• The aggregate business gets loaded JGA/PGA wagons to be shunted through a between-the-rails dicharge conveyor, and stone wagons into the headshunt (where presumably there is a grabber crane to unload them). Notably, there is no runaround for the Aggregate siding, so it must use the platform road (as at Purley before the rebuild)
• As befitting a 70's-80's layout, the goods yard is largely lifted other than the Coal concentration depot, which for now gets either 16T mineral or speedlink hoppers depending on the era.

 

Stock ideas

Locomotives would be 33's, and 73's - but if I'm a little smushy with the era could go with 71's and 24's on passenger workings on the early side, and 37's on aggregate workings on the later side. With regard to the profusion of EMU's, I think the easiest way to deal with this is to say that since both branches are reduced to a very spartan working (like the Waddon branch where the Croydon Ikea is), so only the central platforms are electrified - and such any branch service needs to be loco hauled, as well as those originating from non-electrified areas. (Quite why the branches would still be open in 1980 if they didn't justify electrification in the 20's is up to you to decide - maybe the electrification was removed as a cost-saving measure, to be replaced with DMU's which never materialised.).

 

Here is the current state of play:

• Layout boards built
• Track ordered (C&L)
• Lima 33 with EM gauge wheels and brass detailing packs en route
• Hornby 73 currently winning on Ebay

 

Over the last couple of weekends I've put together the modules - the following picture shows the 3' "crossover" board, the 4' scenic extension' board and the traverser sitting ontop of the two 5' main layout boards:

 

 

Here's the traverser out. I've used an aluminium L section to keep the traverser surface from bowing at the ends, it moves very smoothly and locks gently in place thanks to the drawer runners underneath:

Edited February 12, 2019 by Lacathedrale

[Lacathedrale]

I think I've got the plan mostly figured out in Templot - the only thing I'm not 100% on is the timber locations - but I think within reason it's fine. The below is my 5' x 18" station throat board.

 

Top to bottom on the right hand side is the aggregate track, the disused bay platform, Platform 1 & 2, another bay platform that's now an engineer's siding/loco pocket and the coal yard (the track will extend off the front of the baseboard)

 

 

 

Exciting stuff

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

PM sent, even before I saw this - might be of interest

[Lacathedrale]

Interesting, are those photos of Hertford East?

 

So one thing I'm pretty adamant about is not having a billiard table layout with track on a flat, two dimensional plane. I was planning to use risers and a subroadbed suspended up from the baseboard frames, but it seems (at least from the station) that this is overkill since I will really only need some very small gradients on these boards at least. If I'm using Cobalt DCC point motors, will they handle an extra 1.5" between the fulcrum point and the tie bar? I've sent a message to their advice address - so hopefully if that's  the case I can just use polystyrene that can be carved for some mild contours.

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

Nah, it's New Brighton.  Almost an actual Minories... nicely located in a cutting, road bridge over the throat.  Almost perfect for a small busy suburban, rather than bucolic rural,  terminus.

[Lacathedrale]

I was thinking about how to create a view block on the layout actually, my closed down art-deco signal box (a-la Hither Green) may not work if I have three parallel tracks going over the board, but I'd rather not put the layout in a cutting as I'm hoping to have an embankment and one of the typical rail overbridges of the area represented on the 'scenic extension' at some point in future. Maybe this is just something to work around when the track is in-situ.

[Siberian Snooper]

Glad to see that you have made a decision and are cracking on with it, I look forward to further updates, as and when progress is made. Bring on the tracklaying, as soon as C & L get their act together and send your order.

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

If you haven't seen it, check out Mortimore's Yard by Hillside Depot.

 

It is really inspirational in representing a rather ordinary bit of railway atop a typical urban embankment.  Set in the right period for me, the early-mid 70s when I forst became interested in railways.  It's very evocative, really rings my emotional bell - I love it.

 

I could quite go for the New Brighton trackplan, on top of Mortimore's embankments...

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

Nah, it's New Brighton.  Almost an actual Minories... 

 

 

compared with

 

 

obviously you can close up the distance between the turnouts to compress the NB plan.  Read the 'cutting' as an 'embankment', keep the goods yard sidings but for aggregate traffic...

Edited October 15, 2018 by Dr Gerbil-Fritters

[Lacathedrale]

That's really quite incredible - if you squint it could be almost identical - it only has runarounds on one platform face which is kind of interesting too (likely because it's all multiple units and that pointwork was lifted).  Also, the only visible pointwork looks quite like what I've got, the alternate crossover occuring the other side of the bridge.

 

I'm a little more constrained on width for now. I have basically made zero provisioning for a backscene or sides - I am assuming bolt-ons. So if the layout ends up being more permanent then I can imagine adding another 6-12" between these modules and a permanent backscene to flesh out the old goods yard more, which would give that prototypical spread.

 

Still no idea on how to handle a scenic break on an embankment - I may just ignore it entirely and transition straight onto matt dark grey painted traverser module, and be reliant on the 'scenic extension' board to handle it gracefully at a later date.

 

A Lima 33 en route, with an additional £50 of etched parts, replacement wheels, nameplates, motors, etc. etc. destined to become 33056 'Burma Star'.

Edited October 16, 2018 by Lacathedrale

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

As originally built, there were engine release crossovers on both platforms... latterly only the one on the 'arrivals' side was retained, and even that was more or less redundant once the line was in the hands of EMUs.  Maybe the odd loco hauled excursion made its way here.

 

Edited October 16, 2018 by Dr Gerbil-Fritters

[Siberian Snooper]

As it's an urban layout, how about a tallish building, there are lots of 3 and 4 storey corner pubs/hotels, that would give you the reason for an under bridge.

[woodenhead]

And now I know New Brighton had a tower!

[Lacathedrale]

This is the kind of thing I was aiming for - so maybe just a particularly large stand of trees is enough: https://www.google.com/maps/@51.4500561,0.0060127,3a,75y,6.64h,99.09t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s5GYY2TN2Hz-zBupXIeKY_w!2e0!7i16384!8i8192Incidentally, just around the corner is the embankment I would gaze at through my back window as a kid - there happen to be some wagons on it now as it snakes behind the houses: https://www.google.com/maps/@51.4495478,0.004994,3a,75y,238.14h,91.5t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s2yW3i2Ix-svJXfwRYFTWVQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192 . Signalbox-wise, I was thinking something like this brutalist monstrosity: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/96340-orpington-sr-1991-prototype-photos/&do=findComment&comment=1960014 although maybe that's too big and too modern for a BLT to deserve.

 

 

Will track laid on cork laid ontop of polystyrene work, or will I need some ply between the cork and polystyrene? Realistically, only the areas shown in blue need to have any kind of gradient to them, and that will be very shallow.

 

 

Do I:

 

• Raise the track level above the baseboard framing to the height of the bridge on the scenic extension using something like T-risers
• Raise the track level above the baseboard 1" using a polystyrene sheet, and then 'drop' the scenic extension board
• Keep the track level as is and cut away the blue sections, panelling them flush with the timber frames (-8mm) and 'dropping' the scenic section?

I think the last option is the least troublesome, I would be eager to hear opinions tho. By dropping the scenic extension board, I mean having it with tall endcap that bolt to the other modules, but the frames low down, so I can put the embankment on it and track level will meet but I don't have to raise track on every module.

Edited October 17, 2018 by Lacathedrale

[Siberian Snooper]

I would use a combination of 1 and 3, raise the trackbed to the level required and support it on goalposts and T's, keeping the track more or less level. Cutting away the areas that will be below the trackbed.

 

In Templot You can add the trackbed edges, it's in the Geometry menu, I would allow about 12mm or so outside of the sleepers, this will allow for a ballast shoulder and the cess.

[Lacathedrale]

I could replace the crossmembers with taller ones and cut them away where required, rather than goalposts? I don't really relish the idea of cutting another ten planks, twenty risers and another 120 screw joints!

 

It's probably a good idea however, to keep the majority of my boards with the same lower surface, right? I was thinking I could make the station board flat, the throat with a raised subroadbed, and the scenic section with an even taller raised subroadbed - but then I will just have to build something for them to stand on eventually won't I?

 

I've got the 2FS association's book 'Track' which goes to great length in illustrating the verticality of even minor trackbeds - so either way I would be looking at multiple cork layers  as soon as the track exits the station area.

Edited October 17, 2018 by Lacathedrale

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

Check out this post on Mortimores Yard to see how he built the raised trackbed... it's interesting to see that as soon as you introduce elements of elevation and topology, the model comes to life, even without any scenic treatment beyond the basic landform.

 

 

It's a modest size layout, but it really captures the ambience I think you're trying to achieve.  I keep going back to it as its so compelling.  It feels like a real place, an elusive quality I have so far singularly failed to achieve with any of my efforts.

[Lacathedrale]

That is an excellent layout thread, I spent a long time browsing through it and is very much the kind of atmosphere I'm aiming at.  Looking at his example, I could in theory just attach vertical ply cross sections attached to the cross-members - interesting and seems like the easiest solution. I don't think the cumulative 3' or so of wood I'd save by chopping them into square ends will save an appreciable amount of weight.

 

I've recieved a whole bunch of detail parts - enough to fully revamp a Lima 33, and significant number of parts for 37's and 47's too.  With that, thoughts turn to locomotive power and a more concrete era in which to base them - I'm aiming for 1985-87 which will give me:

• the last years of loco hauled services in the Southern region (33 and 73 hauled coaches and 4TC sets)
• the introduction of Class 37's on gravel workings
• an option to run Intercity and overall grey Railfreight liveries, and early NSE (I think I'll paint my station in NSE colours - an echo of Beeching-era observations that a new coat of paint meant station closure, with those distinctive benches in-situ of course: https://www.nsers.org/uploads/3/5/5/9/3559064/______6186798_orig.jpg)
• a mixture of 'original' stock (16T minerals, vacuum braked hoppers, Mk.1 coaches) and newer replacements (HEA, PGA, Mk.2 coaches)

I was originally quite fixated on the idea of 16-tonners and the Class 71's which i've admired from my first Middleton Press books on Hither Green - but they are part of an era I have no direct experience of, and so it's easy for me to discard them. If I don't stop there, I might include a couple of Westerns (they made it as far as South Croydon, just a few miles north of Purley, from which this layout draws inspiration) or Class 24's (they double-headed with Class 33's until the latter were fitted with ETH), or the bloody 110001 jack-shaft diesel which operated on the Caterham Branch a few miles further on.

Edited October 17, 2018 by Lacathedrale

[Regularity]

You might also want to gave a look at West Kirby Town. Rod has done a lovely job there, and the thread is interesting. The prototype track plan isn’t massively dissimilar to New Brighton, for fairly obvious reasons.

Edited October 17, 2018 by Regularity

[HillsideDepot]

If you haven't seen it, check out Mortimore's Yard by Hillside Depot.

 

It is really inspirational in representing a rather ordinary bit of railway atop a typical urban embankment.  Set in the right period for me, the early-mid 70s when I forst became interested in railways.  It's very evocative, really rings my emotional bell - I love it.

 

I could quite go for the New Brighton trackplan, on top of Mortimore's embankments...

Thank you Dr G-F; I've achieved my aim!

 

Mortimore's Yard is supposed to be "a rather ordinary bit of railway", so ordinary that it goes unnoticed. The sort of place the locals know because they walk and drive past it each day/week but where no enthusiast would visit as there's nothing of interest there. One of the wagon experts is rumoured to have visited, just the once, but no one remembers now if it was Paul Bartlett or David Larkin...

 

That Mortimore's is providing inspiration for others is great, something, maybe, to offer in return from all the inspiration I've gained from other layouts whilst building it.

 

[Lacathedrale]

It really is quite spectacular

 

I'm aiming for a mostly authentic layout, but I realise that a mostly static diorama with EMU shuttle services is pretty dull, so the track plan can support minories-style operation with a bit of semi-plausible freight working. I don't think I'm a good enough modeller to justify it being a photo plank

 

EM Gauge Society form is in the post!

Edited October 17, 2018 by Lacathedrale

[Lacathedrale]

I got some templot plans printed out and laid on the module - I've realised however if I'm going to use HillsideDepot's method then the end caps are going to add another thickness of ply on either end, so I have resolved to not cut the surface to size and shape until those are in-situ.

 

Looking out towards the scenic section (over a notional road bridge, past a railway-side pub on the left and lots of buddleia:

 

 

Looking into the station from somewhere high above the running lines. Left to right is the aggregate siding and headshunt, the north bay platform, the two main platform roads (heading notionally between those plans to represent the platforms), the south bay platform (now engineering siding/loco pocket) and snaking behind the screw box, Charrington's coal siding:

 

 

It's not bad, but I'm going to definitely have a think about the backscene around the aggregate siding - it's very close to the rear edge of the board.

 

After some thought, I am definitely going to use the HillsideDepot technique on my scenic extension board, but else where I will have more shallow contours. By my estimation there's approx 12 scale feet between the edge of the sub roadbed and the baseboard edge - and the MDF itself is approx 9mm, so that's a 15% slope which I think is more reasonable than it might first be thought, Purley is right up on an embankment on the side of the Harestone valley and it only starts to drop precipitously a dozen yards from the station.

 

With that in mind due to the limited scope of the boards, the whole platform module and 80% of the throat module will be level anyway, so it seems crazy to raise those up AND raise up both he traverser and crossover boards, re-cut all new crossmembers and all new surfaces (since the endcaps of each board would need to be fabricated and then placed to support the roadbed, which would need to be another inch longer/etc.) when in reality the major vertical changes will only be on the two smaller boards. The below shows a 'full' expanse of the layout with all boards in-situ, in profile to illustrate the structural design I'm describing. There will obviously be cosmetic undulations, and the trackwork will be raised on two layers of 1/8" cork/foam to represent the sub roadbed and roadbed respectively - before I fix anything down permanently, I will have to validate this - luckily it'll only cost me a bit of time and some MDF sheet

 

Edited October 18, 2018 by Lacathedrale

[Siberian Snooper]

Looks good!

[Lacathedrale]

Delayed at Purley so I took a few shots of the inspiration for the aggregate works and bay platform, and a short video of it being worked by a local 66.

 

 

 

Before the 2005 rebuild it was a bit more squashed up with a fence right behind where the train is in this photo, which is what I'm looking to emulate on the layout. I will also be using the branch platform pictured here with the SER posts and canopy as a model for that platform too - elegant and very familiar to me.

 

I wonder, what colour scheme would this have been in before it got branded NSE?

 

Lastly, I carried over the Katherine Street name from when this was meant to be a much more urban layout, I don't think it particularly matches the suburban nature that it's ended up as. Do I go with Godstone Road (the name of the abortive 2FS layout based on the same place and time) or Foxley Wood (the name of the area I live in, just up the hill from the station)? I think the latter has a somewhat dry irony given that it's a grimy coal and gravel yard on a run down branch.

Edited October 18, 2018 by Lacathedrale

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

Alternative arrangement for Kat Street

 

 

Platforms are boring, and they hide the trains