A New Hope - Great Model Railway Challenge benefits

[Andy Y]

How often has it been said over the years that we need to encourage new people or youngsters into the hobby for the benefit of all into the future? Despite there being laudable efforts at local level which hopefully bring a benefit to the clubs concerned who have had the will and initiative to look forwards it’s fair to say that just have many times as the question has been asked that answers are given that newcomers or youngsters wouldn’t be interested due to the lure of Scalextric/computer games/mobile devices/social media occupying their time.

 

Much of the above is a sweeping generalization as there are gifted, creative and innovative newcomers to the hobby; maybe not as many as would seem to be the necessary number to see future growth. Maybe these innovators don’t appear in the places where the traditionalist would expect them to and hence be open minded about the future; they’re more likely to be found on the internet than the printed page but environments such as RMweb/Facebook/YouTube are part of that democracy and we do see some exceptional talent with followers. I’ve even seen something first hand which blew me away, an innovation from an individual which is such a massive step forward in its field it will surely have a wider future impact. I digress.

 

Maybe we are looking at something very important right now, possibly one of the best things that has happened to the hobby in recent, if not living, memory to trigger an upsurge in interest in what we do, in a very wide sense. Could we have envisaged a million people taking an interest in the hobby all of a sudden? Not by our own efforts or hands I’d wager.

 

Maybe this is premature but indications are that there around a million people finding the hobby of potential entertainment value and, at this stage, anecdotal evidence that more youngsters and families appearing at shows over the last two weekends; surely thanks to Channel 5’s ‘Great Model Railway Challenge’? Purists may declare that it’s not showing the hobby in its greatest light; probably not but the purest light would hardly entertain such a number. Numbers matter, that’s evident from the opening question at the beginning of the post. Not to some, granted, but they’d be happy whittling a Furness loco from laburnum wood even there were no more manufacturers, shops, magazine or club-mates left.

 

It’s been great to see readers and participants in the show interacting here - I’m so glad I pruned the negativity out of that so many people could be open and say they’re enjoying the show without fear that their modelling licence will be endorsed by magistrate. It’s evident that a much greater majority within the hobby, especially those I talk to outside RMweb, think it’s a good thing rather than a bad thing.

 

So, even if a small percentage of the viewers are motivated to find out more, visit an exhibition, look in a local shop, browse websites, find out about clubs, have a dabble at a project or get out of the armchair to embark on that childhood dream of a massive trainset it surely must be good for all. Even if you’ve never bought an RTR item it’s good that the newcomers may challenge themselves to develop greater skills and challenge you for standards and results in the distant future. Even if their interest fades maybe a few more pound coins will be in the treasurer’s tin at the end of the show making it worth looking at doing it all again next year rather than throwing in the towel when faced with rising costs and ageing memberships?

 

So, if it’s good for all of us what should we do? I’d say that we need to invest to earn dividends and encourage anyone who looks to be new. Yes, there are some people who shouldn’t be let near a newcomer as they’d frighten them to death never to be seen again but every club or layout at a show has someone who’s got some people skills to find out about someone who looks new and talk to them (again without frightening them if possible) and encourage them. I need to think about what we do here and how that can be improved to help but examples such as Phil’s cakebox are a stroke of genius which has helped people pick up scraps and tools and make stuff.

Retailers could have significant opportunities this Christmas, try and spot the newcomers and help all you can.

 

One of the aspects of the programme, designed to make good telly, is animated features. Granted we may have rescue vehicles with flashing lights, sounds and all sorts of things we never had in our childhood but maybe as a consequence of the reducing number of youngsters we seem to have lost a lot of play value out of ranges. Maybe they were no longer viable but maybe they could be again? Battle Space is no longer of this world, Bernard Cribbins probably can’t jump onto the platform off the rails these days and simple stick-together buildings don’t meet building regs – Hornby traditionally held that market and maybe they can again one day but supply chains can’t react that quickly to interest spikes. Warley (and other shows) with kids’ areas for kit building will be swamped in the near future I think and we need to think about such provisions more widely.

 

We need to compartmentalize our personal interests and ambitions and keep an open mind on such new-fangled things as TV programmes. I have seen some appallingly snobbish attitudes exhibited already and although I applaud the out put of some of those people I also think that they could do far more harm than they deserve to be able to do at this time if the youngster finds a monster in the cellar when they start exploring.

 

Maybe there’s a thousand Flying Scotsman’s being dug out of the back of the attic to see if they still stutter along; let’s hope so – the smell of XO4 motors and synchrosmoke-seeped boxes would smell better at Christmas to me than a cinnamon and cranberry candle.

[daltonparva]

I’ve even seen something first hand which blew me away, an innovation from an individual which is such a massive step forward in its field it will surely have a wider future impact. I digress. - from Andy Y

 

 

 

Please digress, preferably with a link.

Edited October 16, 2018 by daltonparva

[Steamport Southport]

I do agree with most of your post about this could be the start of some thing good we do need to get young people into the hobby and now days its it should be easer with the internet and the vast amount of information out there to help a new modeller what is harder these days I think is the cost of the hobby now younger modellers are less likely to afford £150 loco company's like Bachmann and Hornby are not safe guarding there own future its OK for them to think its OK most modelers are middle age or old age with disposable income but us old and middle aged modeller's started into the hobby as children the hobby needs to invest in its future some of the layouts on the channel 5 show are a breathe of fresh air I'm not a member of a club I was but got put off by people who said you can't model that its not prototypical or its not correct procedure and people who look down on other modelers these people are not welcome in the hobby and its so good to see a lot of young modelers on the show have a passion for the hobby sadly there are a lot of idiots in the hobby that just want to put people down but this is not new it was the same when I started in the 90s but sadly with the way prices are going this won't be a hobby for all

 

Everyone mentions cost when it comes to youngsters entering the hobby. I disagree.

 

It's worth pointing out that the cost of a top range RTR locomotive is only the cost of a couple of computer games, not including the device you need to play it on. When you've added all the add on extras needed to play the game properly a single game can cost more than a locomotive.

 

How many games do teenagers go through? Loads. How much do they spend watching some awful film at the cinema with drinks, burgers and popcorn? £20 or more. How much on mobile phones, tablets and apps? Too much.

 

What you need is to get those youngsters to spend it on model railways rather than other hobbies. That's the challenge.

 

Besides does everyone need the latest locomotive? There are plenty of good quality models in the bargain bins and second hand for very competitive prices.

 

 

 

Jason

[Huw Griffiths]

When I saw the words "A New Hope" in the title of this thread, I must admit that I initially thought of the original "Star Wars" film, as renamed a few years back (for reasons I'd prefer not to speculate on).

 

However, after getting past the title, I've found myself agreeing with a lot of what's been said here - and starting to think about related matters for myself (a scary concept, I know).

 

I think Andy is right to wonder if, in GMRC, we might be looking at something very important for the hobby. Certainly, I wonder how many people with no previous links to railway modelling are really likely to be drawn in by poorly publicized shows, open days etc., in obscure venues, a long way away from anywhere they've ever heard of - shows full of 50, 60 and 70 somethings, stooped awkwardly over expensive RTR models, actively pursuing that most extreme of sports known as "rivet counting".

 

Well, I haven't noticed too many rivets being paraded on GMRC - and I see this as a good thing. There's certainly been some excellent model making - which I reckon could make some interesting viewing in itself - but the real emphasis seems to have been on showing that the hobby can be fun.

 

Perhaps there might be ways of injecting a bit more fun into exhibitions - always assuming, of course, that newcomers manage to find them - also assuming that they manage to find their way in through the doors to these exhibitions.

 

What sorts of layouts fill these exhibitions? Are they all carefully crafted, miniature replicas of obscure locations, that only see one train per day - or are any centred on "operating potential"?

 

Please don't get me wrong - I certainly think accurate, scale reproductions have their place at shows (even if only to try and silence some of those irritating **@@**ßß**!!**s who insist on constantly ranting on about "grown men playing with toy choo-choo-trains").

 

However, might there also be potential for some slightly less scenery-intensive switching puzzles, which reasonably sensible visitors get the chance to try out for themselves?

 

Might there even be scope for some "drop-in" mini-shows, in local libraries and theatre lobbies - with a mix of small layouts and demonstrators from local clubs - preferably more than one local club, just to show that clubs are capable of "talking" and working together. (Well, they are capable of doing this - aren't they?)

 

 

OK - some people won't agree with my random thoughts - and that's fine by me. It really is - but I hope these people feel able to constructively put across their own ideas for ways of getting more people interested in the hobby.

 

 

Anyway, returning to the TV series, I see it as very much a case of: "Please sir, I want some more."

 

You might ask how much more - well, further series would be appreciated - preferably every year. I certainly wouldn't complain - and I don't think I'd be alone in this regard.

 

 

Huw.

[Scottish Modeller]

Hi all,

 

I took part in GMRC because I believe that the program will make a difference in how the hobby is perceived.

 

I have always been a believer in taking the hobby to the people. who know little, if anything, about our great, multi skilled and multi faceted hobby.

 

I've taken model railways to a lot of places that you wouldn't expect to see them and would still do this if the opportunity arose.

 

So, car showrooms, fire stations, shopping malls, events that are not specifically model railway related - I've done the lot over the years.

 

This one series of programs will, hopefully, have opened our hobby up to a lot of potential modellers, now they can see what is involved.

 

Another series? Well - if what I hear is correct, we should find out more in the not too distant future.

 

One series a year? I'm on the fence about that - too much exposure is as bad as no exposure.

 

Thanks

[Zomboid]

One series a year? I'm on the fence about that - too much exposure is as bad as no exposure.

 

Thanks

I think 6 programs a year is not going to be "too much exposure", especially on C5.

 

Personally I think that to draw more people in we have to show that we're having fun, and in an accessible way. There's a place for everything, from magnificent sprawling models like Lime Street, through generic OO GWR BLTs and whimsical fantasy such as Hobbiton to non scenic planks such as John Allen's original Timesaver. We just need to project the image that "we're having fun, and you might too".

 

The tricky thing with exhibitions is that they're more for looking at/ admiring the models. Speaking for myself, I can only handle a small amount of that and very rarely bother with exhibitions. I mostly like to operate trains as realistically as possible, which I would never have found out as a punter at a normal exhibition (it required me to take a chance on attending a Freemo meet to find my niche).

 

So one of the next steps people will probably take after seeing "the Great British train-set off" if it's caught their imagination will probably be to visit an exhibition. I think a wider net would be cast if, along with the usual quality models to admire, they'd also find a have-a-go inglenook, and a "pay a couple of quid to put together a dead simple cardboard structure kit" table, as examples. And not just aimed at kids...

[Barry O]

TV programmes on model railways do give an opportunity for people to be more involved. Last year we had a news item on our local TV company (Made in Leeds) before our show. They also added some video to their Facebook site ..1000 hits in the first hour. They also came to the show and did interviews etc.

 

Result was a lot more younger children with parents (normally we see the children on Sunday with grandparents). Has it had a long term impact? We wait and see but it was a start and the C5 programmes will help.

 

Innovations wise..a return to KISS (Keep it simple, stupid) for affordable and easy to set up model railways .. like a pop up shop...perhaps we need to do this in the public eye to spread the word?

 

Baz

[RedgateModels]

 

Maybe there’s a thousand Flying Scotsman’s being dug out of the back of the attic to see if they still stutter along; let’s hope so – the smell of XO4 motors and synchrosmoke-seeped boxes would smell better at Christmas to me than a cinnamon and cranberry candle.

 

 

and I'll be on hand to get them running

 

Better get me more chairs for the demo stand Barry

Edited October 17, 2018 by RedgateModels

[Guest Bri.s]

I think what the program shows excellently is ,you can get something decent looking and running in a relatively short time which is the big thing these days

Kids don’t want to spend a year building a layout ,I think due to society’s fast pace and the fact that you can do things pretty instantly kids want a quick turnaround .

Mabe a month to get a layout up and running putting scenery on will probably be secondary to the running so that can take what ever timescale but, getting something up and running pretty swiftly is the key

 

Brian

[HillsideDepot]

There are all sorts of ways to encourage new comers to our great hobby, I know a Cub Scout Leader who will run a model railway evening with his Cubs a few weeks before the town's model railway show with the Cubs then getting free entry. But something as big as a TV series opens up a whole new area of opportunity.

 

How about a "Cake Box Challenge" at a Show? Yes it will cost a little bit in materials, but how much would it repay in the future?

 

Or what about a club running a GMRC layout building project with the aim to display it at the club's show? I think GMRC gave teams 24 hours on the weekend to complete their layouts. Two hours on a club night = 12 weeks. Twelve weeks is probably slightly longer than the usual publicity build up to a show, but not by much. A bit of publicity in the local press, maybe a stand in the shopping centre, possibly with the baseboards, some track laid and the "six scenic items" on display. Working with and encouraging new comers over 12 weeks sounds rather more interesting than several evenings trudging the streets posting leaflets through doors (been there, done that) to me. It would need planning, it would need commitment from enough club members to make it happen, but a "build it, try it, show it" offering would really exploit the TV idea.

 

Coming back to costs, which several people have raised, I think its more of a problem for those of us who have been involved for a long time as we remember what things used to cost. But again clubs can help here. I know in many clubs rolling stock comes from members collections, but why shouldn't the club have something more generic for general use? As a comparison I look at my local sailing and canoeing club. There are lost of children/ young people there who use club boats and equipment to learn the skills, and for many the option to continue to use club equipment once qualified is enough, and that goes for many adult members too. But there are those who really get the "kayaking bug" and start to specialise. Numbers vary, but they aren't looking at £150 for a loco, no, more like £500 for a boat. And unlike a fleet of locos, built up over time that's a single purchase £500. Then add, the rest of the clothing equipment and you're probably not too far off double that figure. But it is the club that opens the door, it is club kit that they start with.

 

To continue the comparison, the 2012 Olympics gave the canoe club a boost; GMRC could do the same for model railways.   

[Barry O]

A few years ago at the Warley show a layout was built, sceniced and running during the weekend of the show and then raffled off for charity.. so a layout (OO in this instance using a 6ft by 4ft board) can be built in a weekend. It used commercial components ( I think it was a Hornby  or Bachmann train "set" as a basis plus RTP buildings. The bit that caused the most interest was the baseboard building...

 

so layouts can be put together quickly so long as there is the will to do so..what WE as modellers can do is help anyone building a layout to achieve what they want by giving advice when requested or before something is about to go pear shaped. Any skills to be supported can be supported as well.

 

Baz

[C.A.T.Ford]

In my mind this program is not for Railway Modellers about Railway Modellers. It is however about Railway Modellers presented in a format the general  public know and understand well, a competition. It show cases the skills and ingenuity involved in solving the problems set by the organisers and has very little to do with curve radii, historical accuracy or even the number of rivets. I'm actually surprised that there is not a "People's vote" for best layout outed by the judges so that the final has an extra layout to introduce some audience involvement.

 

The end product is a show which is understandable for the public but causes certain of the cognoscenti to have heart burn. Shame about that and I have every sympathy for the Heart burn but the public have had a glimpse of how a Railway Modeller works and  an incite into how a model takes shape.

 

I can appreciate the reluctance of the bulk of Modellers to take part in the show, we have frequently been "manhandled" by the media and portrayed as virtually un-convicted Pedophiles living in a toy dream world. With this in mind I raise my hat to the pioneer teams who stepped up and were counted.

 

Will this program mean that thousands will take up Railway Modelling? I think that is unlikely but it will swing those who were considering the hobby but were reluctant to commit  to join the RM community. However in my mind the best end product of this series is that Railway Modellers can be seen as human beings who have a huge range of skills and problem solving abilities which are useful in everyday life as well as modelling, rather than weirdos. I'm sure that attendance at shows will increase in the short term and it is there that, if we play our cards right,  significant numbers of fresh faces may be persuaded to at least try the hobby. This will mean that we need to look closely at the way we, as a group, present the hobby at shows and although the number of rivets may be vitally important to you it may be worthwhile not droning on about it but take an upbeat attitude like this series.

 

 

 

CAT

[The Stationmaster]

As I remarked elsewhere I formed the impression - right or wrong - that there were more youngsters and families at the Farnham club's show this past weekend than there were last year.  Coincidence or tv influence?

 

The d critical thing tho' paraphrasing Andy's words is if they come how do we welcome them?  And welcome them we must if they are not to be put off by elitism or perceived difficulty or any sort of nonsense like 'you'd never see that engine with that train'.  Part of the answer must come at shows and club open days although no doubt a neighbour with 'a trainset' could also do some good as well in helping newcomers?  Could the manufacturers help?  Well maybe but they would need to step outside the wagon circle and put some effort into promoting the hobby, in its wider sense, at different venues like shopping malls an d possibly even department stores (where such beasts still exist).  

 

And of course the 'net has nowadays got a huge part to play but just shove 'I want to build a trainset' into Google and see what you get - a right old mixture varying between daunting/off-putting (is it really that hard?) and some quite good sites in straightforward language which is easy to read.   Alas then that approach comes down to picking the right one and if you get it wrong it might put you off for good.  An area where the magazines and their organisations might help, and don't forget the scrap build challenge - good creative fun that doesn't cost a fortune.

[wombatofludham]

Fully endorse what Andy says and I have always made it my job to engage with visitors when I was exhibiting "Kings Oak" and now when running "Dolgellau".  "Kings oak" most definately wasn't Pendon but a bit of fun in a small space using RTR, RTP buildings and kits and DCC.  It was really to show what could be done by a returning modeller in a short space of time, and when I explained the ideas to visitors many went away mulling over their own ideas for something that could be set up in a conservatory or small room at home with the consent and encouragement of the accompanying domestic authorities.  Dolgellau has the wow factor but again I will always try to explain what could be done in a smaller space and again have had positive reactions from what might be termed "potential returning modellers", the 50-somethings who might have had a model railway as a kid, lost interest whilst working and doing normal life, but who are now looking to retirement and may be thinking of returning to the hobby.

 

On the cost issue, today's youngsters think nothing of spending £1000 on a top spec gaming computer, £300 on a gaming console, £100s on a night out and £100s replacing a perfectly useable but no longer trendy smartphone (and then wonder why they can't put together the deposit to buy a house) so I'm not sure the price of stuff will be an issue, in any case I always point out that most stock on "Dolgellau" is second hand and sourced from the Bay of Thief for a fraction of their new cost.

One elephant in the room that we need to address if we are to attract newbies and capitalise on the upswell in interest Channel 5 has gifted us is the overly snotty attitude of some towards anything that doesn't involve hand-crocheting your own Walschaert's valve gear, or constructing a scale blast furnace to hand roll your own rails.  I've used the term "finescale Taliban" in the past which some have taken offence to but it succintly describes the level of intolerance and holier-than-thou attitudes some exhibit to anyone dqaring to use RTR, ready to plant buildings, or daring to want to model anything post 1968.  Unfortunately I've seen and heard these attitudes far too often at exhibitions, and if you add in the type of modeller who has produced the most exquisite, almost photo-real model of some branch line terminus or loco-depot, but then insists on running it strictly to the timetable of two daily passenger trains and a single pick up goods as it was in 1927, with not a lot happening in between, you could easily see that post Channel 5 interest from Joe and Joanna Normal dissipating faster than snow in spring.  When we acquired "Dolgellau" from the Liverpool MRC we were full of ambition to run according to their carefully crafted real-life timetable, but soon ditched that in favour of running trains to a very enhanced timetable so the public could see - and hear - them.  We still follow some sort of prototypical action but not at the service intervals the 1960 timetable for Dolgellau would actually be.  

One final thing, the use of new media and technology is key to attracting new youngsters.  Not because things like DCC or animation are "for the younger generation" but because that is how they live their lives today.  Also, traditional club structures and rules are probably off putting to younger people.  It's probably why clubs are fading - agendas, minutes, officials and subscriptions were familiar to those of us who were at work when Unions and the like were commonplace but today people are more used to individualism and doing your own thing and would find such structures stifling.  Of course there's nothing wrong with having a formal club structure and creating a larger model and possibly taking it out on the road, but expecting newbies to want to join that from scratch is possibly expecting too much of many.  Again it's about parking personal preference and predjudice and just trying to enthuse any nervous newbies intrigued by the programme and wanting to know more.  

[Lacathedrale]

I think because the current hobbyist trends older and more experienced, we don't see with clear eyes what people just entering into the hobby find. A wonderful layout on youtube is Deresley by David Hyde - he's got the whole shebang with timetables, freight workings, lots of scratchbuilding and weathering, etc. but runs on Peco Code 100. For him, this is such a non-factor and yet would gall many people. There are about half a dozen youtubers such as Everard Junction and Dean Park (in RM!), New Junction and many more which are all bringing forward a roudy-round computer controlled loft layout resurgence into focus - none of whom give a rats arse about the minutiae that can bring a discussion to a screeching halt in some threads here.

 

Frankly it is a very laissez faire approach that I'm sure the victorian railways many seek to emulate would respect - there are no equivalent channels for anything in EM, P4, 2FS, S7, 14.2mm, etc as far as I can tell and that (I think) shows alot about what most industrious new-wave modellers are doing and what most viewers find interesting.

[reevesthecat]

I have sometimes wondered when attending the May fair at my sons school that a model railway the kids could have a go of would be interest to some of the children and their parents. I don't have a suitable layout but maybe I should have suggested the school contact the local club as they do at least have a Thomas layout for the infants.

Too late now though for me he is 16 and couldn't care less!

Mark

[Vistisen]

If I was in the UK I would be in a Model railway Club, and I would be arguing loudly for an idea.  Jump on the band wagon. organise at weekends, half terms events with a similar approach Get together with a local model shop to sponsor some set track and some old stock they can't get rid of. and invite local schools, youth groups in to build a model railway to a theme together with the most friendly members (read no rivet counters) acting purely as encouragers during the process. Make it a competition with two or more teams The model is a success if the participants enjoyed building it, Not if it works perfectly. Do it during the run up to an local exhibition where it will be on display. Film the whole thing as a time lapse, put it on Youtube etc Show it on screens at the exhibition.

 

Good publicity for the local club, the local shop, and it might be the start point for a future life time modeller. 

Edited October 17, 2018 by Vistisen

[griffgriff]

Everyone mentions cost when it comes to youngsters entering the hobby. I disagree.

 

It's worth pointing out that the cost of a top range RTR locomotive is only the cost of a couple of computer games, not including the device you need to play it on. When you've added all the add on extras needed to play the game properly a single game can cost more than a locomotive.

 

How many games do teenagers go through? Loads. How much do they spend watching some awful film at the cinema with drinks, burgers and popcorn? £20 or more. How much on mobile phones, tablets and apps? Too much.

 

What you need is to get those youngsters to spend it on model railways rather than other hobbies. That's the challenge.

 

Besides does everyone need the latest locomotive? There are plenty of good quality models in the bargain bins and second hand for very competitive prices.

 

 

 

Jason

You could put a reasonable layout together for the price of box fresh trainers

[Robin2]

 

 Granted we may have rescue vehicles with flashing lights, sounds and all sorts of things we never had in our childhood but maybe as a consequence of the reducing number of youngsters we seem to have lost a lot of play value out of ranges..

 

I'm a regular reader of MRJ and I really appreciate the skills of the folk who populate its pages with exquisite pictures. They are certainly models in the sense that they are not real trains and they are certainly railways because they have track and trains. But I'm not so sure they are "model railways" - where is the play value? They seem to me to be things to look at rather than to play with. And I reckon this aspiration to that standard of modelling has taken over the hobby so that the fun factor is now frowned on and the prices have skyrocketed.

 

When I see a model railway at an exhibition it seems very clear to me that the guys behind the scenery like "playing trains" but have to pretend it is a serious hobby.

 

By all means let the finescale experts continue to do their thing. But let's broaden our aspirations and allow fun so we can admit to being 66 years old on the outside with a child on the inside.

 

...R

Edited October 17, 2018 by Robin2

[Jonboy]

Bake off, pottery throw down and the sewing bee have performed miracles for their respect markets. The reason they have helped so far is because retailers, manufacturers and clubs have all taken by the bull by the horns and shouted about their respective offerings from the rooftops..

 

Lots of local media work, e.g. paid for advert and a thrown in editorial cashing on the attention in local papers, Facebook groups, and a warm welcome to newbies asking questions.

Edited October 17, 2018 by Jonboy

[Andy Hayter]

France has the same issues as the UK - but perhaps with less cause since at least the average ages at exhibitions seems to be lower if not exactly low.

 

One of the major railway modelling magazines has introduced "Train'in Box".  For this you get everything to start a layout - from the materials (tri-wall corrugated card) to make the baseboards including basic tools through to buildings to build and set on the layout plus loco, stock and controller.  Available in 4 versions to cover regional interests.  Price €330 - say £290.  Some will say, not cheap, but less than the latest i-whatsit, less than a mobile contract for the kids, not dissimilar to Xbox prices. 

 

https://trains.lrpresse.com/A-17487-train-in-box.aspx

 

Perhaps we need a UK equivalent, and given the close links between Peco and Loco Revue, maybe there lies the future possibility.

[john new]

Despite my personal research projects being somewhat detailed and esoteric and being on the SLS Board (another group at the serious end) we have to embrace the lower end of the hobby and bring on beginners. Where I am now with knowledge was not where I started. If I take three of my childhood hobbies model trains, real trains and football - 

• Football - never progressed beyond weekend village league standard but enjoyed myself.
• Model trains - improved a lot, certainly knowledge of what to do is there even where skills are rusty or inadequate.
• Real trains - in my own area of expertise probably at least Championship (Old Div 2) standard. 

I think some railway modellers forget two things - that to progress from Sunday league upwards takes a blend of skill and practice and that Sunday league football still has its place for those playing it. Some layouts out there are crap, you only have to look at YouTube to see that but crucially the people who made them enjoyed it and are proud enough of what they have achieved to put them on YT. We need to encourage this not decry. Hopefully, they will see the better stuff on YT and try to emulate it. 2fs, P4, S7 et al have their place, so does a set-track oval and some home made cardboard buildings.

 

The world has changed but luckily there are still plenty of old, robust, affordable, trains out there.  If we can't get new modellers, of any age, in at the bottom to enjoy making things (Sunday Pub league equivalents) we won't get the next generation of top-line modellers either. It is a pyramid, sadly the current pyramid is shrinking upwards with a steadily narrowing base. It is how to get our 6-7 year olds to keep interested and progress from something simple like this to something less like a train-set. However, even if they only ever get a bigger train set, does that matter if they stay with running trains?

 

 

Layout made for my grandsons.

Edited October 17, 2018 by john new

[Robin2]

If we can't get new modellers, of any age, in at the bottom to enjoy making things (Sunday Pub league equivalents) we won't get the next generation of top-line modellers either.

As long as we get the next generation in I don't think it matters whether any of them aspire to be, or become "top-line" modellers.

 

...R

[john new]

As long as we get the next generation in I don't think it matters whether any of them aspire to be, or become "top-line" modellers.

 

...R

 

Although I think we do need good modellers to show the examples I do concur with your view too -  it is why the end of my post reads ".....It is how to get our 6-7 year olds to keep interested and progress from something simple like this to something less like a train-set. However, even if they only ever get a bigger train set does that matter if they stay with running trains?"

Edited October 17, 2018 by john new

[woodenhead]

The question is what would a 6-7 year old want to play with - a steam train or a modern train?

 

When our father's were growing up it was the archetypal express steam train circuit, when I were a lad it was the HST (and one solitary coach)  so that would suggest today we need modern trains at a reasonable price which represents what a child will see on today's railways.

 

Luckily, Hornby being purveyors of all things trainset still have such offerings - IEP, Pendolino, HST, MKIV, Javelin, go up the chain a little and Bachmann have the 350/450 units, the Voyagers and Dapol have the shiny 68 (coaches?).