James Posted April 21, 2010 Share Posted April 21, 2010 To counter that: how many miles of mainline track with 3rd rail are there and how many miles of OLE can be found in Europe? Do you think you could safely push 25kV AC into a 3rd rail? What's the max speed on 3rd rail? On OLE the record stands at over 500 kph... Frankly, 3rd rail only suffices for subway/Underground systems :icon_tongue: The thrid rail isn't the limiting factor, it's because it's a DC supply. I don't like thrid rail, on the few occasions I've been on track with a third rail, I always feel a little bit vulnrable - especially if I've had to cross it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dagworth Posted April 21, 2010 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 21, 2010 I don't like third rail, on the few occasions I've been on track with a third rail, I always feel a little bit vulnrable - especially if I've had to cross it. (my underlining) That's the reason James, once you get used to it you don't worry about it so much. I was the same at first but got used to it being there and it became second nature. Simple answer is that you should never step on ANY rail, but you will know that anyway andi Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete the Elaner Posted April 21, 2010 Share Posted April 21, 2010 The pan will only move with a change in wire height But height of wire will vary when the line passes under a low bridge, or across a road crossing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jim s-w Posted April 21, 2010 Share Posted April 21, 2010 Indeed so Pete I just dont want people to think that the pan raises between masts - 'cause it dont! In reality the maximum angle that the wire can change above the rail is 1 in 400. To change from normal wire height of 4720mm to typical minimum height of 4190mm* would need a distance of 212000mm (212 meters). To give an idea what this means in 4mm scale this is a drop of 7mm over a distance of 2.7 meters The wire normal wire height quoted is for Mk1 OLE Cheers Jim * absolute minimum height is 4165mm - this is very rare Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lyneux Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 So... 4 years later. Whatever happened to this? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
frobisher Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 So... 4 years later. Whatever happened to this? It's a mere 4 years, that's not even close to being late by Peco standards... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Not Captain Kernow Posted March 19, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 19, 2014 Peco decided not to proceed after Dapol brought their masts out with promises of a full range to follow. With the benefit of hindsight perhaps Peco should have continued... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThaneofFife Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 (edited) Blimey this was first aired 5 years ago.....id say the Dapol stuff looks the more realistic.the peco masts dont know what they want to be.they definitely look nothing like mk3 but do look like a mk1 with unrealistic small arms almost a euro looking arm not disimilar to Veissmanns. Theres no place for two makers of uk ohle really.Dapol should restart their own range and get that moving again....at least then both 00 and n gauge modellers a piece of the pie. Edited March 19, 2014 by ThaneofFife Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted March 19, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 19, 2014 The Peco mock ups were based on the drawiing I had on my home page of the old OLE website. Based on BR drawings 1/101/115/A2 and 1/101/116/A2 Pity they never contacted me regarding these. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lyneux Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 Peco decided not to proceed after Dapol brought their masts out with promises of a full range to follow. With the benefit of hindsight perhaps Peco should have continued... Is this based on a statement from Peco or is it conjecture? We are in the worst possible place at the moment. The promise of two systems with neither properly launched. From what I can tell, the Dapol masts are too flimsy to support tensioned wires. Their plan was (IIRC) to make plastic wires (there was also talk of etched ones at one point) but this would require the use of their own fixed-height pantographs. Given this, I think it would take quite some skill to be able to lay track and place OHLE at the correct height from one another which isn't going to look so great from a running point-of-view when the pan either pulls the wires down or simply rides a mill or two below wire height. Still, in 2mm, without wires, the Dapol stuff is probably ok. I haven't seen any layouts using it in 4mm though. Guy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
arran Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 HI All I hope Peco do get in gear and do what they proposed years ago, Dapol did put them off but with a no show on there stuff . Whats needed are just the basic's to get started then expand from that, after all they are the Network rail for the hobby to most and its made in the UK. Regards Arran Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 Peco did what they are good at, encouraging the other manufacturers to venture into new areas, remember the Jubilee and how good that was in comparison to other locomotives, then there was the Collett - first chipped locomotive on sale in N, this cantenary and lately the RTR L & B 009 stock. I think when Dapol took up the gauntlet they fully intended a range of OHLE but like everything Dapol it went a bit Pete Tong. But until one of them get a decent range of OHLE out sales of electric stock won't kick off I don't think. But with the modern railway now getting more and more wired the time has come to sort this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJM Dave Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 I understand from my spy in the camp that you may not find OHLE in either scale in the new Dapol catalogue. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted March 19, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 19, 2014 I understand from my spy in the camp that you may not find OHLE in either scale in the new Dapol catalogue. Oh dear Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThaneofFife Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 I understand from my spy in the camp that you may not find OHLE in either scale in the new Dapol catalogue.Is that definitely a "not" dave? If so its quite deflating if this implies no more to come and only whats left in the shops is available now. Mighty annoying for those that bought lots if the mast packs only to be left high and dry...... Dapol....you really are giving out some strange messages lately. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJM Dave Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 Hi, I've not seen all the catalogue or parts thereof, so I'm going on what I've been told by my insider there. If true it's certainly an interesting development, but it might be that this year the catenary might be placed on a different page or section. After all the catalogue is apparently 130 pages, so might be easy to overlook. So I guess I'm saying don't shoot the messenger, just in case I'm right or wrong. Cheers Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pandora Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 3rd rail was very cheap at initial installation back in the 1920s and 30s, but actually costs an absolute fortune, put it simply, a mid-week overnight line possession of say 4 to 5 hours will be decimated to about 2 to 3 hours of productive work due to time spent on the essential need to create a safe environment for the track worker, ie the traction current isolation and installation of track safety earths in case of accidental energisation of the 750V conductor rail (believe me that DOES happen). Contrast this with 25kV overhead, in many cases the OHLE will be live during track maintenance , you gain an extra couple of hours of work. There is a lot of undesirable hardware for 3rd rail over 25kV, such as impedance bonds, traction cables and insulated block joints galore which need lots of drillings in the web of the running rail leading to weakening and failures. It is said that the cost of converting from from third rail to overhead although substantial , will be quickly recovered in terms of savings through more work/fewer possessions of the line Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Adam1701D Posted March 19, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 19, 2014 I wonder if that means I need to start stockpiling Dapol masts, should I ever actually get time to build myself a layout... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Joseph_Pestell Posted March 19, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 19, 2014 3rd rail was very cheap at initial installation back in the 1920s and 30s, but actually costs an absolute fortune, put it simply, a mid-week overnight line possession of say 4 to 5 hours will be decimated to about 2 to 3 hours of productive work due to time spent on the essential need to create a safe environment for the track worker, ie the traction current isolation and installation of track safety earths in case of accidental energisation of the 750V conductor rail (believe me that DOES happen). Contrast this with 25kV overhead, in many cases the OHLE will be live during track maintenance , you gain an extra couple of hours of work. There is a lot of undesirable hardware for 3rd rail over 25kV, such as impedance bonds, traction cables and insulated block joints galore which need lots of drillings in the web of the running rail leading to weakening and failures. It is said that the cost of converting from from third rail to overhead although substantial , will be quickly recovered in terms of savings through more work/fewer possessions of the line I can relate a story about this. During a possession, with the third rail isolated, a track worker chose the third rail as a suitable place to sit while eating his lunch(!!!). Unfortunately, during his break, a Class 73 arrived hauling an engineers train. It was running on its 600hp diesel engine but that does not prevent current passing through the loco's wiring between the two sets of pick-up shoes. So as the loco passed over a gap in the third rail, it energised the rail he was sat on. Fortunately escaped with minor burns. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThaneofFife Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 (edited) Talk about flying off at a tangent! What is the relevance here of 3rd rail.....? Edited March 20, 2014 by ThaneofFife 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 Hi, I've not seen all the catalogue or parts thereof, so I'm going on what I've been told by my insider there. If true it's certainly an interesting development, but it might be that this year the catenary might be placed on a different page or section. After all the catalogue is apparently 130 pages, so might be easy to overlook. So I guess I'm saying don't shoot the messenger, just in case I'm right or wrong. Sounds more like a drafting foul-up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThaneofFife Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 New catalogue includes more catenary items afterall.... 'Bout bloody time! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lyneux Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 New catalogue includes more catenary items afterall.... 'Bout bloody time! Peco or Dapol? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Kris Posted March 22, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 22, 2014 Dapol Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted March 22, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 22, 2014 OK what are they going to produce? Is it more Mk3 equipment to go with the cantilevers they already do? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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