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Scottish highland/north, freight, 1985-1990


Neil90
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Hello,

 

I'd like to know about freight in the Scottish highlands/far north from 1985, until about 1990.

 

I have a model of 37410 in large logo blue and I'm looking wagons to match.

 

TTA's seem to be the most common. What livery were they carrying at the time? From my research, it seems to be grey with a small BP sticker.

 

Were there other liveries?

Did the green BP livery exist at that time or is this a more recent one?

 

OBAs - I see photos of them in bauxite and Rail Freight red/grey so think that's covered.

 

HEAs - would Rail Freight red/grey have been making an appearance by this stage or is bauxite more appropriate?

 

PCA's for powder/cement- were these used? It's hard to tell the difference in a photograph to a TTA!

 

And VEA's - I'll have to try the kit.

 

Can anyone suggest anything else, and in particular RTR models that are suitable?

 

Thank you

Edited by Neil90
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  • RMweb Gold

37410 was an Eastfield based locomotive working mainly on the west highland line. Freight services from the 1980's has already been covered at length in the thread below which answers many of your questions

 

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/92785-west-highland-line-freight/

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Going up to Elgin, Aberdeen & Inverness saw other traffics:

Yes to cement in PCAs

China Clay slurry (bogie PDA tankers and smaller barrel TTA)

Coal in containers (30ft Russell and 20ft ex-Cawoods)

Containers on FFA/FGA

Grain in 4 axle and bogie covered hoppers

Timber logs (OTA,OBA and BDA)

Whiskey in unique containerised tanks

LPG tanks

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I'd like to know about freight in the Scottish highlands/far north from 1985, until about 1990.

 

I have a model of 37410 in large logo blue and I'm looking wagons to match.

As above, the loco and location do not quite match

Do you have a layout already? (which gauge)

If so, is it based on a real location or quite flexible?

Do you plan on renumbering your 37410 model? (for example to match an Inverness based 37/4)

Edited by mjkerr
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37410 was an Eastfield based locomotive working mainly on the west highland line. Freight services from the 1980's has already been covered at length in the thread below which answers many of your questions

 

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/92785-west-highland-line-freight/

I had a read through that and it is useful, thanks, though a few of the links don't work any more. Can you shed any light on the livery questions?

 

Going up to Elgin, Aberdeen & Inverness saw other traffics:

Yes to cement in PCAs

China Clay slurry (bogie PDA tankers and smaller barrel TTA)

Coal in containers (30ft Russell and 20ft ex-Cawoods)

Containers on FFA/FGA

Grain in 4 axle and bogie covered hoppers

Timber logs (OTA,OBA and BDA)

Whiskey in unique containerised tanks

LPG tanks

Thank you, are the PCAs of the flat top or vee shaped variety, or a mixture? I've never noticed the vee type in photographs. I'm talking about the 2 axle versions in case there are different.

 

As above, the loco and location do not quite match

Do you have a layout already? (which gauge)

If so, is it based on a real location or quite flexible?

Do you plan on renumbering your 37410 model? (for example to match an Inverness based 37/4)

I will renumber it in time to something more suitable. I have a OO guage shunting layout. It's not based on a real location, but I'd like to feature the previously mentioned locations, so I could renumber 37410.

 

---

 

Bachmann do several TTAs in different grey liveries, can anyone comment if they'd be appropriate to the area? They are Total, Esso, BP and there are many others available through auctions.

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37410 is Large Logo Blue gives you the period 1985 to 1990 (depending on if you renumber to a different 37/4)

https://www.class37.co.uk/fleet.aspx?strnumber=37410

As you can see this loco mainly operated the area

Mossend - Glasgow - Fort William / Mallaig / Oban

A small number of other observations though, including Perth and Aberdeen

Then the loco was repainted and travelled further (as did most 37/4 by late 1990)

 

As above, some freight you would only see on some routes

The Alcan PCA would be seen between Mossend and Oban, and pretty much matches the name Aluminium 100

Soe freight you could see on any of the Scottish western routes

Such as mixed OAA and OCA, timber on OTA, oils and liquids on TTA, palletised on VAA/VBA/VGA

 

If you renumber the Class 37/4 to an Inverness based example

You would lose the Alcan traffic, but gain the nuclear flask

 

Obviously as a 37/4 it is primary role is passenger use

This allows a mix of Mark 1 and Mark 2, just watch as later rakes swapped to air brakes

If the 37/4 is Eastfield and route Glasgow - Fort William, you can include a sleeper

Equally, as an Inverness based 37/4 you could push the boundaries and include a single sleeper (before this was ditched)

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On the Highland and Far North lines, there were Cargowaggon vans to Georgemas Jct, bringing steel coil north, returning with 'white goods' from Norfrost, 'Safeways' containers to Georgemas on Eurotwin flats. There have been a couple of threads on here about Georgemas Jct; look for it, or George Woodcock in the 'search' box.

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Thanks again, I see Cargo Waggons are for release in the future but have also been promised previously so I'll have to look into it more.

 

Would freight from Blue Circle Cement in Inverness be appropriate (in Scotland, even if not the areas I've listed specifically)? I have found photographs of the depressed centre PCAs, I see Bachmann do a PCA non-depressed in Blue Circle livery but it all seems to be later photographs, despite being listed as sectorisation period on the various websites, could anyone shed any light? Or what would the non-depressed PCAs be carrying?

Edited by Neil90
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May I hijack the thread for just one question as it is of similar interest?

Specifically, a Dutch livery Cl.37 has just arrived (a bit out-of-era for the OP but I believe wagons wore this livery long before locos did so it may be relevant?) and I was hoping to give it an engineers' or ballast rake to match but am having a hell of a time finding or even understanding stock for it.

The only things I can find in Dutch livery in N scale are the Peco Ferry Tubes and a Brake Van.
Could anyone recommend some wagons. I don't mind respraying them if need be.
The rakes that have caught my eye have about three hoppers after the loco, then a brake van in the middle, then more hoppers.
This would be running on the Mallaig extension of the West Highland Line. Would it be right to run Dutch up there?

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Thanks again, I see Cargo Waggons are for release in the future but have also been promised previously so I'll have to look into it more.

 

Would freight from Blue Circle Cement in Inverness be appropriate (in Scotland, even if not the areas I've listed specifically)? I have found photographs of the depressed centre PCAs, I see Bachmann do a PCA non-depressed in Blue Circle livery but it all seems to be later photographs, despite being listed as sectorisation period on the various websites, could anyone shed any light? Or what would the non-depressed PCAs be carrying?

As you mention Bachmann, rather than Farish, I presume you're modelling in 00.

Heljan have done the Cargowaggon van in the past, so you should be able to find one. The bogie flat they do is similar to one that worked to Caberboard, near Inverness; the difference being that mesh sides were fitted behind the side stanchions. There are photos of a couple here:- https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/cargowaggonflat

Hornby and Dapol have both done the depressed-centre cement wagon in the past. These were often seen mixed with both the type of wagon done by Bachmann, and that which is coming from one of the smaller manufacturers.

The West Highland saw Freightliner flats on both reeled paper and aluminium slab traffic, as well as BMA and BMA types, available as kits from Cambrian.

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4 Wheel engineering wagons around that time in those areas could be Mermaid,Catfish or Dogfish to name a few and bogie hoppers could be SeaLion/Cow. I remember some of these bogie wagons being shunted in Lairg station yard in 1989. It's worth remembering that the far north lines were cut off due to the collapse of the bridge at Inverness, marooning three 37's and stock, 416/417, the other I forget. Was any freight stock marooned? 

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I am modelling in OO, yes. I've had a look at the Cambrian models there, some good stuff. I've never built rolling stock before but I'll be giving a wagon or two a go.

 

I've learnt what I hoped to, I'd finally like to know if the Blue Circle Cement liveried PCA is relevant to my plans?

Edited by Neil90
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I am modelling in OO, yes. I've had a look at the Cambrian models there, some good stuff. I've never built rolling stock before but I'll be giving a wagon or two a go.

 

I've learnt what I hoped to, I'd finally like to know if the Blue Circle Cement liveried PCA is relevant to my plans?

They run to Inverness from the works at Oxwellmains. If there were any projects north of there which required large quantities of cement, then doubtless they would go there. In pre-airbrake days, there was an oil-platform construction site at Stromeferry, which used to receive Presflos of cement, along with other traffic.

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In terms of BCC PCAs - all the 80s photos i have seen were short rakes of plain grey depressed centre PCAs heading up Highland Mainline.  AFAIK these were a Millerhill to INverness service and the formation normally included a handful of plain grey PCAs, some containerised coal, TTAs with fuels, TTAs with LPG.  The exact mix varied with time.  Later (beyond your period) we started getting block trains of cement on a less frequent basis and this is when i have seen more examples of the straight backed cement PCAs heading up north mixed in with depressed centre ones as a full rake of 20 or so wagons.  Based on this i would say the Bach PCA is only really suitable for later block trains beyond your period and the Hornby / Lima / Dapol depressed centre PCA in plain grey livery is more suitable for your proposal (note that the BCC liveried depressed centre PCA that Hornby make is a fictional livery).  Sadly the rest of that service is not easy to model with containerised coal and LPG wagons not yet available... 

 

I wonder in some of your photos whether you are looking at Alcan PCA rakes which do look similar to Bachs wagon - these only ran on WHL to Fort William and, whilst body is similar to the Bach model, the chassis is different (different suspension type).

 

If you don't already have them then can strongly recommend "Scotland East and North" book (I think Roger Siviter) and also there are several amazing books showing WJV Anderson's work - both contain some inspiring shots of your period in these locations.

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May I hijack the thread for just one question as it is of similar interest?

Specifically, a Dutch livery Cl.37 has just arrived (a bit out-of-era for the OP but I believe wagons wore this livery long before locos did so it may be relevant?) and I was hoping to give it an engineers' or ballast rake to match but am having a hell of a time finding or even understanding stock for it.

The only things I can find in Dutch livery in N scale are the Peco Ferry Tubes and a Brake Van.

Could anyone recommend some wagons. I don't mind respraying them if need be.

The rakes that have caught my eye have about three hoppers after the loco, then a brake van in the middle, then more hoppers.

This would be running on the Mallaig extension of the West Highland Line. Would it be right to run Dutch up there?

 

Mike,

I'm not sure Dutch 37s would have made it onto Mallaig extension although someone may prove me wrong... as far as I know locos heading up the WHL had to be RETB fitted and from mid 80s the 37/4 fleet was the RETB fleet.  In early 90s sprinterisation led to many 37/4s being allocated away but seems some were retained and continued on freight and sleepers on WHL - continuing into EWS era.  With superfluous RETB 37/4s I would be surprised if dutch 37/0s were used up WHL and I don't recall ever seeing a photo of such - I think it was possible to fit mobile RETB to locos / units without but I can't imagine it would be common to do this when RETB fitted kit was around.  Now someone will prove me wrong with a series of photos of dutch 37s on WHL...!

 

Dutch 37/0s were used quite extensively out of Inverness in early 90s with some turning up on sleeper services (double headed).  37156 was one such beast.

 

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Mike,

I'm not sure Dutch 37s would have made it onto Mallaig extension although someone may prove me wrong... as far as I know locos heading up the WHL had to be RETB fitted and from mid 80s the 37/4 fleet was the RETB fleet.  In early 90s sprinterisation led to many 37/4s being allocated away but seems some were retained and continued on freight and sleepers on WHL - continuing into EWS era.  With superfluous RETB 37/4s I would be surprised if dutch 37/0s were used up WHL and I don't recall ever seeing a photo of such - I think it was possible to fit mobile RETB to locos / units without but I can't imagine it would be common to do this when RETB fitted kit was around.  Now someone will prove me wrong with a series of photos of dutch 37s on WHL...!

 

Dutch 37/0s were used quite extensively out of Inverness in early 90s with some turning up on sleeper services (double headed).  37156 was one such beast.

 

 

Cheers, Matt.

Yes you make an excellent point with the RETB. I'd overlooked (forgot about...) that. Hmm I may have to overlook that little detail on my build and go with conventional signalling. I am pretty flexible, so exact numbers won't really bother me. No worries about the Sprinterisation on my line because I can't find the sodding things!  :mosking:

This is the video I was using for reference, however I don't believe it shows any part of the Mallaig extension, it does show some pretty interesting rakes, although a bit out of era for the OP, 1997. Dutch 37's galore here, though most wear Transrail logos. The Alcans can also be seen in it, hauled by '153(?) and no "T" logo.

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Hi Mike,

 

Sorry I have realised just now what tosh I've just given you!  Danger of going from memory (all my stuff included books is in boxes just now pending unpacking post house move...).  One of the few bookazines not in a box is the REX train formations handbook and there on p67 is listed a FW - Mallaig train that was hauled by 37240 in dutch (hauling 3 grey TTAs) dated July 1992.  My logic is logical but I'm just going to suggest that the whole sectorisation business wasn't logical...

 

Sorry for bum steer!

 

M

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In terms of BCC PCAs - all the 80s photos i have seen were short rakes of plain grey depressed centre PCAs heading up Highland Mainline. AFAIK these were a Millerhill to INverness service and the formation normally included a handful of plain grey PCAs, some containerised coal, TTAs with fuels, TTAs with LPG. The exact mix varied with time. Later (beyond your period) we started getting block trains of cement on a less frequent basis and this is when i have seen more examples of the straight backed cement PCAs heading up north mixed in with depressed centre ones as a full rake of 20 or so wagons. Based on this i would say the Bach PCA is only really suitable for later block trains beyond your period and the Hornby / Lima / Dapol depressed centre PCA in plain grey livery is more suitable for your proposal (note that the BCC liveried depressed centre PCA that Hornby make is a fictional livery). Sadly the rest of that service is not easy to model with containerised coal and LPG wagons not yet available...

 

I wonder in some of your photos whether you are looking at Alcan PCA rakes which do look similar to Bachs wagon - these only ran on WHL to Fort William and, whilst body is similar to the Bach model, the chassis is different (different suspension type).

 

If you don't already have them then can strongly recommend "Scotland East and North" book (I think Roger Siviter) and also there are several amazing books showing WJV Anderson's work - both contain some inspiring shots of your period in these locations.

I had a further look and I have found a picture of straight back PCAs from 1991 but it is Fort William - Blythe. And the 37s are in sector livery! I think I will settle for the compromise as it's a shunting layout and variety is important to me, even if things don't tie together perfectly.

 

I have found a photo of a straight back PCA stating they were built in 1987-88 so one <I> might </I> have made it into my area/era I suppose - unless someone can tell me I'm wrong.

 

Thanks re the books, I will look into that.

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  • 4 months later...
On 07/01/2019 at 14:48, Fat Controller said:

As you mention Bachmann, rather than Farish, I presume you're modelling in 00.

Heljan have done the Cargowaggon van in the past, so you should be able to find one. The bogie flat they do is similar to one that worked to Caberboard, near Inverness; the difference being that mesh sides were fitted behind the side stanchions. There are photos of a couple here:- https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/cargowaggonflat

Hornby and Dapol have both done the depressed-centre cement wagon in the past. These were often seen mixed with both the type of wagon done by Bachmann, and that which is coming from one of the smaller manufacturers.

The West Highland saw Freightliner flats on both reeled paper and aluminium slab traffic, as well as BMA and BMA types, available as kits from Cambrian.

Hi i dont soppose you or anyone on here knows what the container flats were for the reels of paper from corpach? 

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6 minutes ago, andy s said:

Hi i dont soppose you or anyone on here knows what the container flats were for the reels of paper from corpach? 

Originally, I believe they were standard Freightliner FGA/FJB (the latter being the type with conventional drawgear at both ends). Latterly, the Tiphook KFA, as modelled by Hornby, were used.

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