KR Models announce Nuclear Flask Wagon.

[chris p bacon]

2 minutes ago, big jim said:

Certainly a wagon I’m interested in getting

 

looking at the website i can only assume this isn’t a crowdfunded project like the GT3 as it says ‘add to basket’ rather than ‘express interest’ as after reading the best part of 4 pages of snide and below the belt comments about the company (and the proprietor) I’m not sure whether to order one incase I lose my money if the goods don’t appear

 

it’s a shame for RT models as I’m sure there are others like me who would order one but are reluctant to thanks to comments on here? 

 

Jim, I stand to be corrected, but as the model isn't available for nearly 2 years (2nd Q 2021) I suspect this is another crowdfunding venture. 

[big jim]

2 minutes ago, truffy said:

Don't confuse RT with KR. Two entirely different entities.

 

Cheers, Fat fingers! (Like the rest of me!)

[big jim]

3 minutes ago, chris p bacon said:

 

Jim, I stand to be corrected, but as the model isn't available for nearly 2 years (2nd Q 2021) I suspect this is another crowdfunding venture. 

 

Hmmm, will have to make sure before I order one then 

 

 

[JSpencer]

Great announcement and very glad to see the CAD stage is well advanced. My only recommendation is the KR gives a bit of history on the prototype when they announce a new model. All decent sites that used to give us such useful info seem to now be disappearing as the world moves to cloud based net. Still, the positive on that is that maybe books will return.

[Fat Controller]

These wagons were built in connection with the THORP project at Windscale, and used to bring spent nuclear fuel rods from several locations in France and Germany, crossing the Channel on the Train Ferry. The model is of the UK-registered version, which had Y25 bogies. The French one used very antiquated-looking Diamond-Frame bogies, whilst the Germans used a plate-framed, similar to that used on various bogie ferry wagons.. Each version, despite being intended for the same traffic, had significant design differences. It was not uncommon to see wagons from any two of the three operators together at Dover, at least until 1995, when the Ferry ceased to operate. The wagons were expressly barred from the Channel Tunnel, so the traffic went over to sea transport to Barrow Docks

For some reason, French railwaymen and enthusiasts nicknamed these wagons (along with other flask-carriers) 'Castor' (Beaver).

[big jim]

Now I’m confused as to which wagons these are

 

Simple question then, can I use these wagons “prototypically” with my DRS stock or were they withdrawn before drs came along? 

 

(The website suggests DRS use them but general consensus seems otherwise)

 

[Fat Controller]

2 minutes ago, big jim said:

Now I’m confused as to which wagons these are

 

Simple question then, can I use these wagons “prototypically” with my DRS stock or were they withdrawn before drs came along? 

 

(The website suggests DRS use them but general consensus seems otherwise)

 

I'm pretty certain they're still in use, though I'm not sure which flows they're used on.  Unfortunately, I can't find my reference book for this at present.

[big jim]

Last time I looked many years ago The big flasks used to go to Devonport dockyard

[Fat Controller]

6 minutes ago, big jim said:

Last time I looked many years ago The big flasks used to go to Devonport dockyard

Those were different ones, I believe, owned by the MoD. There was also one described as a Road-Railer, which I don't recollect seeing a photo of, which worked to Douneray.

[BR Blue]

Does anyone know when these wagons were built?

I agree that it would be useful if the KT website had this info. However I cannot see how its absense has anything to do with cloud computing. The internet was always cloud based.

[Colin_McLeod]

3 hours ago, big jim said:

Certainly a wagon I’m interested in getting

 

looking at the website i can only assume this isn’t a crowdfunded project like the GT3 as it says ‘add to basket’ rather than ‘express interest’ as after reading the best part of 4 pages of snide and below the belt comments about the company (and the proprietor) I’m not sure whether to order one incase I lose my money if the goods don’t appear

 

it’s a shame for KR models as I’m sure there are others like me who would order one but are reluctant to thanks to comments on here? 

 

Any adverse comments are self inflicted by Keith's failure to properly respond to reasonable questions.

 

KR Models' announcement  came just after the liquidation of DJ Models and before the refunds had been made by the banks. With that timing Keith would have been well advised to be extra careful not to antagonise potential crowdfunders in case parallels were drawn. 

 

Unfortunately he did not convince everyone that he had thought everything through and included everything when determining his price.

 

If 'snide and below the belt comments' are enough to put you off, then either you have your own doubts or just want an excuse not to hand over money.

 

This very post may itself be more of what you refer to, but you raised the subject by referring to reasonable concerns as "snide and below the belt comments"

 

On a positive note Keith is making progress and I wish him every success with KR Models and hope he turns out to be very good at running his business.

Edited September 5, 2019 by Colin_McLeod

[chris p bacon]

44 minutes ago, BR Blue said:

Does anyone know when these wagons were built?

I agree that it would be useful if the KT website had this info. However I cannot see how its absense has anything to do with cloud computing. The internet was always cloud based.

 

Cloud ?

 

Are you confusing this with 'Crowfunding'  ? This is where the model is funded by those that wish to purchase a product by giving the commissioner  the funds in advance to commission a manufacturer (in this case in China) to create a CAD and ultimately injection moulded tooling for a model.   They don't own the tooling or any rights to it, just the model they order.

Edited September 5, 2019 by chris p bacon
typo

[Simon Bendall]

Its not particularly clear but the website says they are a Bombardier design so its either KXA MODA95782/83 of 1994 or KYA 83 70 9985 001/002 of 1992 (later 33 87 9985 008/009).  The first pair were used for the Devonport and Rosyth reactor traffic but were replaced by the present (and visually different) pair of MODA95770/71 in the mid 2000s IIRC.  Don't think the other pair are in the UK anymore but one was around in 2011 https://gingespotting.smugmug.com/Wagons/I-TOPSCode/IQA/i-qzHNc42

 

 

[BR Blue]

4 hours ago, JSpencer said:

Great announcement and very glad to see the CAD stage is well advanced. My only recommendation is the KR gives a bit of history on the prototype when they announce a new model. All decent sites that used to give us such useful info seem to now be disappearing as the world moves to cloud based net. Still, the positive on that is that maybe books will return.

 

Not a typo Chris P Bacon. I was referring to the post above It would be quite a typo to confuse "crowd funding" with "cloud computing". Even my spelling is not that bad.

Edited September 5, 2019 by BR Blue
More info added

[cal.n]

 

3 hours ago, big jim said:

Now I’m confused as to which wagons these are

 

Simple question then, can I use these wagons “prototypically” with my DRS stock or were they withdrawn before drs came along? 

 

(The website suggests DRS use them but general consensus seems otherwise)

 

 

Info about these wagons is understandably not too easy to come by but here is what I understand,

KUA wagons are very different to IQA wagons, the model is the latter.

 

KUAs are used regularly today with flows from Devonport dockyard with spent naval nuclear submarine fuel to Sellafield for reprocessing. They also run to Georgemas Junction for spent fuel from Douneray to Sellafield (there was an experimental naval reactor at Douneray). KUAs have also run to Rosyth Dockyard (presumably for a submarine in there) and they go to Eastleigh for overhauls and tyre turning etc. All behind DRS traction. Note KUAs always travel with a pair of DRS mk2s with military/armed police for security. 

 

As far as I can tell, IQAs are no longer used in the UK, but were used for spent fuel from power station reactors in continental Europe for reprocessing at Sellafield, crossing the channel via the train ferry. When the channel tunnel was built, all nuclear traffic is banned so continental spent fuel is now moved by ship and unloaded at Barrow Docks and moved to Sellafield by KXA wagon.

 

https://gingespotting.smugmug.com/Wagons/I-TOPSCode/IQA/i-qzHNc42/A

 

This is the only image I could find with DRS traction and an IQA (albeit early DRS traction). Due to the lack of escort coaches and only a single loco I don't think it is loaded and I suspect the master bogies from the IQAs were modified with walkways then used on KUAs.

 

 

[big jim]

2 hours ago, Colin_McLeod said:

 

Any adverse comments are self inflicted by Keith's failure to properly respond to reasonable questions.

 

KR Models' announcement  came just after the liquidation of DJ Models and before the refunds had been made by the banks. With that timing Keith would have been well advised to be extra careful not to antagonise potential crowdfunders in case parallels were drawn. 

 

Unfortunately he did not convince everyone that he had thought everything through and included everything when determining his price.

 

If 'snide and below the belt comments' are enough to put you off, then either you have your own doubts or just want an excuse not to hand over money.

 

This very post may itself be more of what you refer to, but you raised the subject by referring to reasonable concerns as "snide and below the belt comments"

 

On a positive note Keith is making progress and I wish him every success with KR Models and hope he turns out to be very good at running his business.

 

Thanks for the clarification, yes I’ll admit the timing not long after the DJ models debacle has put me off clicking the ‘buy it now’ button, I’ve never bought into anything crowdfunded and what went on there has made me weary of dipping my toe, however I’m still unsure if this wagon is a crowd funded enterprise

 

reagrds Keith, I’ve not heard of him or seen any of his posts on here (we must move in different circles, era and modelling wise), and this wagon is the first time I’ve come across the name of either his company or himself (is that a good or bad thing, I don’t know) so was unaware of any potential issues, black holes in his business model or reluctance to heed advice from others but I am now

 

i too hope him all the best with the venture and hope the wagon sees the light of day and that we on the forum get to see updates, progress reports etc as I would really like to order one or two basic wagons (can’t see the point if the DCC doors tbh) but there is just that little niggle that is preventing me clicking to buy one this early in the day (saying that I’ve still not ordered a hattons 66 and won’t dountil I see one in the flesh and first reports come back from buyers as to the build and running quality etc) 

[truffy]

26 minutes ago, big jim said:

reagrds Keith, I’ve not heard of him or seen any of his posts on here (we must move in different circles, era and modelling wise), and this wagon is the first time I’ve come across the name of either his company or himself (is that a good or bad thing, I don’t know) so was unaware of any potential issues, black holes in his business model or reluctance to heed advice from others but I am now

 

This thread may be of interest: 

 

 

26 minutes ago, big jim said:

(saying that I’ve still not ordered a hattons 66 and won’t dountil I see one in the flesh and first reports come back from buyers as to the build and running quality etc) 

 

You and me both!

[Simon Bendall]

1 hour ago, cal.n said:

 

https://gingespotting.smugmug.com/Wagons/I-TOPSCode/IQA/i-qzHNc42/A

This is the only image I could find with DRS traction and an IQA (albeit early DRS traction). Due to the lack of escort coaches and only a single loco I don't think it is loaded and I suspect the master bogies from the IQAs were modified with walkways then used on KUAs.

 

 

From what I remember, this one was brought back to the UK for evaluation for use by BNFL, the move was from Dollands Moor to Crewe Coal Sidings. Its sister also turned up at some point and both were stored at Crewe. Both went to Booths in 2014.

 

 

[cal.n]

11 minutes ago, Simon Bendall said:

 

From what I remember, this one was brought back to the UK for evaluation for use by BNFL, the move was from Dollands Moor to Crewe Coal Sidings. Its sister also turned up at some point and both were stored at Crewe. Both went to Booths in 2014.

 

 

 

Ah okay, so it must have come through the tunnel (empty) then. 

 

Comparing the CADs the the prototype images, there are a number of pretty major errors in the model.

 

The master bogies, ladders and handrails are vastly different on each side of the wagon. The closest side here has a lower walkway which I think is actually on the 'double bogie' and has two sets of handrails with a short ladder. The far side has a single handrail on the main body of the wagon with a small gate and a ladder that extends the full height of the wagon.

 

 

The CADs show they have simply used the same arrangements for both sides. The CADs are also missing most of the ferry tie-down loops, both handbrake wheels

 

 

While granted there are not many prototype photos at all, these are pretty big mistakes for a £150 model. 

[Simon Bendall]

Would appear the CAD is actually closer to MODA95782 and MODA95783 then http://www.flickr.com/photos/35663521@N04/4251684773, which is fine but they should be described as KXA. I'm pretty sure these two were out of service before DRS got involved with this traffic.

[Ryde-on-time]

The blurb in Model Rail mag states the wagons are based on MODA 95770 & 95771 if that helps identify them?

[big jim]

The picture on baz Jones’ post on the previous page looks to be the same as the cad drawings ladder wise 

 

edit: its the same pic Simon has linked to above 

Edited September 5, 2019 by big jim

[Guest JiLo]

1 hour ago, cal.n said:

 

Ah okay, so it must have come through the tunnel (empty) then. 

 

Comparing the CADs the the prototype images, there are a number of pretty major errors in the model.

 

The master bogies, ladders and handrails are vastly different on each side of the wagon. The closest side here has a lower walkway which I think is actually on the 'double bogie' and has two sets of handrails with a short ladder. The far side has a single handrail on the main body of the wagon with a small gate and a ladder that extends the full height of the wagon.

 

 

The CADs show they have simply used the same arrangements for both sides. The CADs are also missing most of the ferry tie-down loops, both handbrake wheels

 

 

While granted there are not many prototype photos at all, these are pretty big mistakes for a £150 model. 

But its a CAD and not the finished model!

[big jim]

3 minutes ago, JiLo said:

But its a CAD and not the finished model!

 

 

If only we knew which model we would be signing up for!! 

[96701]

1 hour ago, big jim said:

 

 

If only we knew which model we would be signing up for!! 

Is there a request to sign up?