Heljan 47 Chassis issues

[pitbull1845]

Thanks Martin and Mick, I will have another look at them both and see how I get on.

Cheers

Scott

[kintbury jon]

I'm glad to hear there was a silver lining to your cloud. I really appreciate you writing the original thread which was the reason for creating this one.

[griffgriff]

My earlier thread Heljan Class 47's, Do I own £2400 of scrap? reported on the class 47 chassis swelling problem.

 

I can now report that after contacting Howes as Heljan's U.K. representative they have supplied six brand new chassis'.

 

Howes service has been nothing short of excellent, the replacement chassis' were with me within a week with no argument. Howes even supplied a couple of Colas bodies to replace the severly damaged ones.

 

You may argue that the bodies are not the same livery but the bottom line is if there are no other bodies available, then they cannot be supplied.

 

We are quick to criticise but I have to say that, personally, I could not have asked for more.

 

Many thanks and well done Howes.

 

 

That's great news... but what happens when the parts do eventually run out

[griffgriff]

Apologies if I have missed it but is there a special technique of removing the bodies, other than brute force?? I have two 47's both of which appear too tight to remove. I don't have instructions with them so I am guesing its only the 4 clips on the sides that need to be unclipped. I'm hoping that I am not another victim of 47's eating to much chocolate whilst my back is turned!

Many thanks in advance.

 

Scott

 

As a last resort I 'tapped' the body off mine by threading a piece of dowel through the bogie aperture putting pressure on the roof of the body on the inside... it is a last resort though!

[Jenny Emily]

That's great news... but what happens when the parts do eventually run out

 

A full refund would be the only option. Not ideal if the locomotive was a particular favourite, but better than nothing.

 

I've seen the Mazak crumbling issue a lot in my time collecting Hornby Dublo. It seemed to be a huge problem in their very early models made pre-war. A lot of these were stored for the duration of the war, because of supply restrictions. After the war it was discovered that many had disintegrated in storage. Post-war Meccano got the QC right, and I haven't seen much evidence of the Mazak oxidation in these later models. The batch contamination is true - I have a Hornby Dublo pre war LMS guard's van whose base is fine, but the wheels crumbled on the axles. Different bathes of Mazac. I'm told something as simple as the wire that bound the sacks of metal billets being tossed into the mix was enough to precipitate the problem.

 

I only own one Heljan loco (a class 33) and will watch it like a hawk.

[Lokomotivfuhrer]

Having read this thread, I decided to check the 2 Heljan Class 47s I have. The 1st is Hattons 47298 Factory Weathered L.E. which seems fine.

 

However the other Heljan 4695 47299 "ARIADNE" is - well see for yourselves . . .

 

It had been in its original box. When I opened the lid, I noticed that the plastic moulding between the Bogies representing the Fuel Tank and Batteries etc. had come away from the chassis and couldn't get it to re-attached, even though the plastic lugs seemed fine.

 

In this shot it is in fact sitting on top of the Rail Heads but not actually attached to the chassis.

[Lokomotivfuhrer]

I found the cause of this to be the following :-

 

What you are seeing here is not a trick of the light or shadow or suchlike, it is in fact a bulge in the shape of the chassis!

[Lokomotivfuhrer]

Here it is from another angle or 2 in which the chassis warping becomes evident.

[Lokomotivfuhrer]

Like one or two other members have shown, this one takes the biscuit. This has developed over a period of weeks/months while it sat in its box!

 

When I purchased this Loco. I didn’t expect Heljan to take realism this far. Just like the prototype.

 

Gives new meaning to the term "Tubby". One wonders about the conception of this illegitimacy.

 

My full apologies to Andy et al. for my outburst, but have to say guys that I see no simple way for us to get our 70 quids worth.

[Flood]

I have been watching this thread with interest and I'm just going to ask a few questions to clarify things:

 

1) Have these issues happened recently? I don't mean have they been noticed recently I mean has the damaged occurred a while ago and only just been noticed or have some of these definately changed in the last six/twelve months. This leads to my second question...

 

2) A large number of people have said "When I took my loco out of the box...". Has anyone had this occur whilst the loco has been out of its box since it was bought and is subject to regular running?

 

Glenn and I have 25 Heljan 47s. One of these has a chassis that was bought off ebay but was too long for the body (and brittle buffer beam side valances), this has been filed back in length. Aside from this not one of them has shown any problems but we do not store them in their boxes, we store them in carry cases covered by bubble wrap (in a bedroom).

 

Have we just been lucky, have other people been overly unlucky or does storage in a less packed environment subject to room temperature fluctuations actually do some good?

 

One thing I must add is this only ever seems to have happened to the Class 47s from Heljan. I've never heard of a Class 15, 17, 26, 27, 33, 35, 52, Falcon or Kestral having an issue. Possibly not even a Class 57.

 

Your thoughts on these points are welcome.

 

By the way, I haven't taken any of the bodies off mine. I wouldn't have a fleet to run at an exhibition (then again one day I may not have anyway).

[Summer_Saturday]

 

2) A large number of people have said "When I took my loco out of the box...". Has anyone had this occur whilst the loco has been out of its box since it was bought and is subject to regular running?

 

 

Yes, this does seem to be a common factor with those 47s that have been damaged. My 10 have all been stored out of their boxes on shelves and none are showing problems. They are run every now and again rather than regularly.

 

Please could people who have found damaged bodies or chassis add a reply regarding whether or not their loco(s) had been stored in boxes (and if yes, for what length of time) so that we can see whether this is a relevant factor. Thanks.

[Bristol_Rich]

Mine was stored in its original box for the majority of its life as it was intended for a future project.

 

It must have been in it 18m+ and only saw the light of day during conversion to P4 and detailing and weathering.

[Martin_R]

I have listed below my Heljan 47's with as much info as possible. Since late 2008 I have kept all my Heljan locos with chassis in original boxes and bodies stored separately both located in my garage. Prior to this the TOPS numbered ones would have been run in rotation on my layout in my garage. D 1100 & D 1662 were in a display case in my study.

 

47 781 started to look distorted first in 2007 when the fuel tank/battery box moulding came loose. Since late 2008 I have checked them all roughly ever 6 months since storing the chassis and bodies separately. D 1100 was next to show signs in March 2009, all the rest looked OK in December 2009. I checked again in April with the following results.

 

D 1100 TWO TONE GREEN - badly distorted and cracked chassis

D 1662 TWO TONE GREEN - slight chassis distortion body will not fit back on

47 245 RFD - no obvious distortion but body too tight to fit on

47 278 BLUE WHITE ROOF - no obvious distortion but body too tight to fit on

47 711 NSE - no obvious distortion but body too tight to fit on

47 781 RES - original chassis u/s early 2008 fitted new replacement chassis from Heljan in August 2009 - body fitted OK

un-numbered with RFD body - purchased July 2009 - fitted OK

47 145 TINSLEY BLUE - purchased February 2010 - body fitted OK

47 231 ex245 RFD - purchased March 2010 - body fitted OK

 

I have just had another look at them all this afternoon and cannot see any real change since checking in April.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Martin.

[Lokomotivfuhrer]

I have been watching this thread with interest and I'm just going to ask a few questions to clarify things: . . .

I don't know if you're onto something here Flood, but I'll answer your points as honestly/accurately as I can. (from my point of view anyway).

 

1) In the case of the Loco in question as shown above, I only noticed it 2 days ago as a result of this thread. I dont know when it occured or how long it took to occur, over what period or at what rate.

 

2) Yes my affected Loco. was in its original box. It has been there since Christmas 2009 and was definitely not like that at that time. So we are talking about 6 months. The other Heljan 47 which doesn't appear affected as yet anyway, has been on the Layout since the day of purchase.

[Flood]

Before anyone says anything I do appreciate that whether the loco is stored in its original box or not shouldn't make the slightest difference. If taking the locos out of the boxes does reduce or remove the warping effect (by whatever means I do not understand) it would at least save a large number of modellers, and the manufacturer, a considerable amount of expenditure.

 

From Martin's experience I would suggest the more likely cause is a bad production batch or batches. How long the possible issue was perpetuated is probably the greatest factor to all concerned.

 

We will await to see what findings we have established over the coming months.

[Pete Piszczek]

I can now report that after contacting Howes as Heljan's U.K. representative they have supplied six brand new chassis'.

 

Howes service has been nothing short of excellent, the replacement chassis' were with me within a week with no argument. Howes even supplied a couple of Colas bodies to replace the severly damaged ones.

 

 

That's not exactly the response Hornby have given us with the Class 31s that are having issues...

 

1) Have these issues happened recently? I don't mean have they been noticed recently I mean has the damaged occurred a while ago and only just been noticed or have some of these definately changed in the last six/twelve months. This leads to my second question...

 

When the Hornby 31s started cracking, I had a good look at my unit, no problems. Less than six months later and the shell was cracking on both ends. The expansion isn't really noticeable (pregnant chassis excepted) till it reaches the point that the body sticks and then cracks...

 

On the Heljan front, the dozen locos in my possession appear fine. Only one is a 47 though, and it isn't from the first batch.

[D826]

Chaps,

 

reading this thread got me to dig out my stored boxed (for about the last 4 years) ;

 

D1662 IKB Two tone green, D1932 blue, and 47591 blue large logo - all fine no problems.

 

Curiosity made me check Heljan D7036 and D1067 similarly stored and also, I am pleased to say, fine.

 

All stored Bachmann locos are also fine.

 

Total contrast with Hornby 31270 which since original posts on the subject last year, has totally grenaded itself from buffer beam to front left corner of cab on one end and is clearly bent on total self destruction - enough to confirm my prejudices that a 31 really doesn't cut the mustard by comparison with a Hymek or a Warship.

 

Cheerio and will continue to watch this thread, and others relating to chassis failure with interest.

 

Matt W

[craigwelsh]

Total contrast with Hornby 31270 which since original posts on the subject last year, has totally grenaded itself from buffer beam to front left corner of cab on one end and is clearly bent on total self destruction - enough to confirm my prejudices that a 31 really doesn't cut the mustard by comparison with a Hymek or a Warship.

Presumably you are storing the Hornby body off the chassis to avoid further damage?

 

Talking of Hornby 31s, the replacement chassis details were supposed to be available 'late May' so I need to chase that up.

 

Not sure what the rest of your post means, presume your just a hydraulic fan and aren't talking about models.

[GD]

 

 

Please could people who have found damaged bodies or chassis add a reply regarding whether or not their loco(s) had been stored in boxes (and if yes, for what length of time) so that we can see whether this is a relevant factor. Thanks.

I don't know if it's relevant but the Heljan 47s came in two different boxes, a black foam insert and then later a polystyrene tray with plastic top, then back to the foam inserts.

[34040]

Yes, this does seem to be a common factor with those 47s that have been damaged. My 10 have all been stored out of their boxes on shelves and none are showing problems. They are run every now and again rather than regularly.

 

Please could people who have found damaged bodies or chassis add a reply regarding whether or not their loco(s) had been stored in boxes (and if yes, for what length of time) so that we can see whether this is a relevant factor. Thanks.

 

My 47 was stored in a drawer in the loft, not in a box. Was subject to a large variation in temperature, however, although my other fourteen Heljan locos were similarly stored without any problems.

[Lokomotivfuhrer]

Well I have got to hand it to Howes of Oxford.

 

I contacted them as recommended by a number of members. A chap called Martin advised me to return "warped chassis" to them for replacement.

 

Sent it off, and had a complete replacement chassis returned to me within 5 days. Excellent turnaround.

(especially when I managed to put the wrong Postcode on the covering letter! - Howes corrected that as well!).

 

Thank-you very much to Howes of Oxford, and to all members offering help and advice on this matter.

[sb67]

Does anyone know if Heljan have corrected the problem? Gonna have to check mine!

[fozzy280472]

Hi chaps , i dont own any Heljan oo 47s but do have an o gauge one , does anyone know if the o gauge models have been affected at all ?

My Hornby 31 looks ok but i think i may remove the body as a precaution.

Cheers guys,

Paul.

[craigwelsh]

Does anyone know if Heljan have corrected the problem? Gonna have to check mine!

Howes had replacement chassis for those that had failed. It only affected the one batch of mazak used for some 00 gauge 47s in the same way it only affected one original batch of 31s when it happened with Hornby.

[D605Eagle]

A full refund would be the only option. Not ideal if the locomotive was a particular favourite, but better than nothing.

 

I've seen the Mazak crumbling issue a lot in my time collecting Hornby Dublo. It seemed to be a huge problem in their very early models made pre-war. A lot of these were stored for the duration of the war, because of supply restrictions. After the war it was discovered that many had disintegrated in storage. Post-war Meccano got the QC right, and I haven't seen much evidence of the Mazak oxidation in these later models. The batch contamination is true - I have a Hornby Dublo pre war LMS guard's van whose base is fine, but the wheels crumbled on the axles. Different bathes of Mazac. I'm told something as simple as the wire that bound the sacks of metal billets being tossed into the mix was enough to precipitate the problem.

 

I only own one Heljan loco (a class 33) and will watch it like a hawk.

I know its a long time since this post was made, but a friend has told me a 1/2 a dozen pre war Hornby dublo locomotives that he recently found through another friend that hadn't been touched or moved since the war. They looked perfect, but when touched they literaly turned to powder. It seems only the paint was holding them together. I believe that unaffected pre war doublo stuff is very very rare.