Track Beds

[johnteal]

I have seen different methods used for creating a track bed. What works for G may not work for OO. I'v started this thread to see what methods people use.

 

I currently lay my playmo 45mm plastic track on "postcrete" the stuff you set fence posts in and add water. Seems to be working well so far.

 

Never done O but a previous layout of mine had On30 DCC running outside on Decking boards

 

As seen I didn't want to crawl on the floor to clean the track, so they are made as a shelf about 3' off the floor. Decking is tanalised and although it fades it should last a good few years untreated.

 

 

Being On30 (16.5mm track) it converted easily to OO Again DCC no bus wires just 2 wire to a single point on the track.

 

 

 

John

RJR

[87 101]

I use a mixture of trackbases on the Heatherburn. As our back garden has a slope the rear section of line is at ground level. This was the first section of the layout to be built and has stood up to the past 3 1/2 years without any problems. When I first decided to go outdoors I started with a lot of research on the internet. As the track bed would be at ground level I decided that concrete was the only way to go. Now there are two options here thermalite blockwork on a concrete base as used by Paul Barnard or the old way of using wood embedded in concrete. I was actualy going to go down a third route and use the Trevor Jones methord of rubbercrete but I couldn't get hold of the rubber!

So after looking at the options I came up with my own methord. I first laid a concrete foundation about a foot thick that had old block pavers embedded in it. The top was to have had rubbercrete but as mentioned I had to have a rethink. On a trip to B&Q for more supplies I stumbeled across some rubber pavers that were designed for use on kiddies play areas. I bought a couple and then cut them into strips. These were then cemented to the top of the concrete base and left to set. The gaps between them were then filled with mortar. The track was then pinned to the rubber blocks using long panel pins. Once laid the track was covered with a runny mortar mix using an old brush and left to go hard. When it had set the rails were cleaned up and then to allow for expansion I cut them into 1' lengths. Wire loops were then soldered across the joins and the complete trackbed was then sprayed with red oxide primer. A coat of Thompsons water seal followed. The end result was a track bed that I could walk on and has not moved in the past 3 1/2 years.

 

To link the garden to the garage the railway runs along the top of a breze block wall. As the railway is a dog bone design the wall has two levels. The trackbed on the bottom level is similar to the garden section but the top level uses exterior grade ply. For the station area next to the pond and the curved entrance to the garage I have used treated deckboard's.

[alleras]

In common with Dave Bentley and his Heatherburn Garden Railway, I have used a mixture of exterior grade plywood and treated decking boards for my track base on the Selby Garden Railway. I was initially concerned that the plywood might give me some trouble having seen how small unprotected offcuts quickly disintegrate when exposed to damp conditions in the garden but (touch wood!) so far the plywood appears to have come through its first year without a problem. The plywood base was first coated with bitumen adhesive and then received a covering of roofing felt which should help to keep out the worst of the weather and prolong its lifespan. I've since read that it's wise to apply an initial coat of bitumen that has been thinned using ordinary white spirits which may soak deep into the wood and offer additional protection.

 

The treated decking boards give me a greater sense of reassurance and they are much easier to work with - accepting track pins easily. With a bit of work they can easily be cut to fit round curves and once coated with bitumen adhesive and roofing felt you can almost forget about them.

 

I would imagine there are numerous ways of supporting the trackbed itself depending on the desired height of the finished layout. The Selby Garden Railway is built close to ground level (12-18 inches) on a base of breeze blocks which in turn are laid on a concrete foundation. I always intended being able to sit and relax in the garden while watching trains making their way around the borders and wanted to try to blend the railway into the garden itself rather than it being supported 3 or 4 feet or more above the ground. That's just my individual preference and I'm happy near to ground level. I like to think I'm still young enough to endure the amount of bending and kneeling that is often required to access the track for cleaning purposes. The entire structure once completed is incredibly strong and can easily stand being walked upon.

 

Perhaps a little off topic but I did experiment with one section of track by ballasting using a very fine sand/cement mixture which I laid dry and spread using a small paint brush before spraying with plain water. It certainly looked the part and endured the first summer very well, however, the winter took its toll and the 'ballast' along the sleeper ends (cess side) gradually began to come away although that in the 'four foot' remains nice and solid. I'm not sure that roofing felt is an ideal base for an attempt at ballasted track as it doesn't always remain firmly fixed down and if the felt begins to lift slightly then the ballast does too. Dave Bentley previously suggested the use of yacht varnish as a ballast fixative and so I may attempt that at a later date. It does make a big difference to the appearance of the track once it has been ballasted.

[johnteal]

Ballast

When I had 16.5mm track outside I used Plasti-Kote spray to simulate ballast, it is textured to look "stone like" I used a colour called Gothic Grey Granite, just spray on and it leaves a textured finish that wipes of the rails while wet. Available from B&Q at about £6 for a big can.

 

 

Might be worth an experiment on a scrap piece of track as it is flexible it wont chip on felt?

 

John

[87 101]

I actualy used the plasticote paint on the heatherburn but it didn't last more than six months. I even used the clear sealent coat over the top.

[jmanley3]

Gentlemen, as a newcomer to the web site and to outdoor model railroading, I really appreciate your ideas on the best way to design and build track beds. I have floated the idea of an outdoor "O" scale railroad with some of the various writers and editors of Classic Trains Magazine and others; and the reception was positively depressing. But, with you all, I feel that there are other kindred spirits like me who know it can be done!

 

I have read Dave's and John's description of their approach to the roadbed. Thank you, for your guidence. I do have a number of challenges due to the environment I live in. But they can be overcome with patience and $$$$$. I would welcome your experienced comments and ideas.

 

I am located in north central Florida - just north of Gainesville, Florida. The weather is just becoming very cool and pleasant. We tend to come out during this time of year. We have horribly hot and humid summers! While cold weather drives one indoors for four months, the hot weather does the same. This summer season, we had rain practically everyday for a month - and I mean torrential downpours! With lightening, thunder-boomers - the whole lot! I have five acres in which my home is located; and an adjoining five acres. I have to contend with a pretty heavy canopy of Laurel Oaks. They have small, narrow leafs and they shed their limbs often as they grow. They also have a knack for becomming hollow and eventually rotting away. They collapse in the most unconvenient places! No stout English Oaks here, m'i lads! They're suitable for tooth picks, not masts. We also have something called "sugar sand". There is really very little good earth. This stuff is like being at the beach! The only way to make it something passable for growing is to add manure and leaves to it to build up the material.

 

So, in consideration of the environment, I believe I will have to go with some kind of raised road bed, probably in the three to four foot range in order to get above the tree litter, avoid the critters that roam the homestead and save my knees. That means wood; but the down side is the weather and the existance of termits. Can I build a four foot high "Chinese Wall" made our of concrete? Maybe if I win the Lottery!

 

I've even considered some kind of PVC framing with the track attached to decking; and that in turn would be attached to two parralell pieces of PVC. I would use three way joins to build a frame;and to run a leg into the ground. The track would be back filled with earth underneath; but, I think the height would have to be under a two feet to remain stable and be practical. The PVC could be used to run wire for powering the track and accessories. Ackward, isn't it? I might try it to to say I did. Still wood would work best and using Dave's idea of the tarpaper or felt, I think would provide the protection I need.

 

Oh, ballast was mentioned. The "G" scale folks in the States recommend using chicken grit, or oyster shell, for track ballest in a glue-like mixture; but for OO, that may be too out of scale and tough to work with. It may work for O.

 

And, many thanks to Dave Bentley who introduced me to this fine site and forum! Thank you, Dave! And thanks to you all for reading this and your input.

[87 101]

Glad you found the site ok John.

[Martino]

I'm just down the road from you Mr Manley, in Northwest Florida - Fort Walton Beach, near Destin.

 

I have a G scale set up with a mixture of trackbed. In most cases it's a three or four inch deep trench, about four inches wide, filled with drainage rock. Then a mix of 'patio base' (from Lowes) mixed with some cement (about one third mix). The track is laid on this and then ballasted with chicken grit (I use chicken grit which is the right size for G or 16mm but you may find 'starter grit' may scale for O scale). This is held in place by flooding the ballast with a solution of one third Titebond 3, two thirds water with a squeeze of washing up liquid. This survived all last winter, the very wet session we also had this summer and the sunbsequent heat.

 

This is at ground level and floats well, giving no problems with track expansion - I use track clamps.

 

Other stretches are on concrete bricks used for edging lawns (Home Depot this time) and fence boards which will be faced to look like a low viaduct.

 

I'm trying to source some Hebel blocks but can't get the manufacturer in Georgia to tell me where I can get just a few down here!

 

I also suffer from the laurel oak leaves, particularly in spring. Also suffer from Gulf Coast Box Turtles which like digging in all sorts of awkward places!

[James Hilton]

A good number of tips in here - plenty for me to ponder over... I romantically thought it would just be a case of digging a trench, filling with drainage material, topping with some finer material, tamping down and laying track directly on top. I guess that would work, but not be perhaps as robust as I should consider making the road bed.

[87 101]

Hi James you could proberly get away with that methord in the bigger scales but for the smaller stuff the track bed needs to be more robust. Out of intrest what scale are you thinking of using outdoors ?

[James Hilton]

It's G - so it's still a possibility I guess then

[Jenny Emily]

I'm currently pondering a move towards the garden in the property I'm buying (if the mortgage people pull their collective fingers out and stop delaying the process). It has a huge garden, and I have permission to colonise it. My plan is to stick with OO because of all the stock I have. Of course, the question of fixing the rails in the outdoors bit is something I've been pondering on.

 

I don't like the idea of anything wood in the garden. Call me lazy, but I don't want to have to replace rotten sections every few years and daub with paint every other year. I've looked at the rubbercrete method, but cannot find where the rubber granules can reliably be sourced from. Rubber matting is mentioned in a post above, and I went and researched what is available. It seems that this material is cheap and relatively easy to acquire and could be cemented to the top of a concrete sub base for reliable fixing. Has anyone got experiences of using this material and how well it stands up? My worry might be water ingress freezing in winter causing the rubber to lift distorting the track.

 

I also am planning on replacing the current run down shed that the garden has with a more substantial brick built affair which will house the siding areas (a small version of a marshalling yard will suit me fine and double as storage for all my stock). However, I'm still pondering the way that the tracks will come and go through the wall. The building will double as an office, and I want it to be well insulated and habitable all year round. I also don't want wildlife and slithering nasties to get in or out, not to mention water ingress so wonder whether anyone has any tips or advice for the entering and exiting of buildings by tracks.

 

Any advice and tips appreciated. Construction is unlikely to start until the end of Summer so I'm not in a rush.

[87 101]

Hi Jenny I know where you are coming from with regards to the rubbercrete. I had similar issues untill I stumbled upon the rubber pavers. Im not sure if these are still available from B&Q ? My track bed has been down now for 4.5 years and is still as solid as the day it was built. The trick was to coat the track with a wet mix of mortar to act as balast then cut the track into short sections to allow for expansion in the summer. Wire links then joint the track sections electricaly. I will post some more details up later with a few pics as im leaving for work shortly.

[Jenny Emily]

Thanks for the reply. For expansion I was going to leave the track (Peco streamline) in the yard lengths that it comes in for expansion and solder jumper wires across each gap. Have you found that it needs the extra joints for expansion? For 'ballast' my thoughts were to make a dry mix, brush it all on then spray gently with water from an old windolene bottle to start the fixing process rather than brush on wet.

[87 101]

I proberly could have got away with just using the yard lengths but as I was setting the track in the mortar I didn't want to take the chance of it cracking. I did have one small section that got damaged but it was fairly easy to just cut the wire links and then replace the section of track.

 

With regards to balasting I did do an experement using clear yauht varnish to hold the balast in place rather than the usual PVA mix. This worked realy well and stayed put even when hosed with a jet wash! I think if I ever built another garden line I would proberly use this methord than the mortar mix as not only would it hold the track in place it would also waterproof the trackbed.

[Jenny Emily]

I had considered using Javis granite ballast chippings, but held with something more waterproof than PVA. However, the thought of what would be ballasting around 100 feet of track does not fill me with enthusiasm! Yacht varnish might be quite an expensive fixative, if the price of the stuff I use on my boat is anything to go by. I had thought about just leaving the track unballasted, but I am wondering about whether this would allow the track too much movement resulting in wavy straights; especially on a hot sunny day like today.

 

I seem to recall that the Peco concrete sleepered track does not work well in direct sunlight, which is a shame as Hattons are doing this track somewhat cheaper than the wooden sleepered variety. I'm going to stick with code 100, at least for the outside sections, as I'm hoping the extra thickness of the rail will help the track be a little more robust and less prone to bending.

 

It's all still at the planning stage as the layout has to wait for the mortgage people to pull their collective fingers out. Because I'm self employed, it has become a nightmare, with them asking for more and more paperwork as each week goes by. I wish they had decided two months ago exactly what they wanted, then I would have sent them it all then. There also needs to be a new brick built shed built and fitted out to house the main section of the layout, and that must take a back seat behind some roofing work and redecoration of the interior of the house. It does have a massive boarded out loft, but I've decided that the heat extremes of a loft for a layout aren't for me, and I'd rather have the roof space filled with oodles of insulation instead.

 

I'm planning on having the internal portion of the layout finished first as a self contained oval within the shed so that train running can happen even in the rain and the depths of Winter. The garden extension would be an additional longer run for scale length trains. That may mean that the shed will be up and running before the Winter, but the garden bit will wait for next year. That's probably as well, as it will allow the ground to settle before any concrete is laid - I don't want the trackbed dropping by several inches over the months after being laid.

[Hippo]

Hi jenny, something you may want to consider is 2k Ecosheet,

In its most basic form its plastic plywood, made from all different recycled plastic. At the moment it only comes as 18mm thick, 1200x2400. It acts exactly the same as plywood, cut, drill, screw, nail and paint just like conventional plywood. Its cheaper than Marine ply, but dearer than normal ply. The only thing i would say is its not quite as Rigid as normal 18mm ply.

 

The timber company i work for has recieved a few sheets in as samples, and i am impressed, I intend to use it as track bed straight onto the earth in our garden.

 

Owen

[66C]

One thing to consider when using plastic materials in the garden - is it UV stable?

 

No information on this is given in the Ecosheet website.

 

Regards

[Hippo]

There is a couple of hoardings that have been up for about 3-4 years, that are as good as when they went up, just slightly discouloured (the paint).

Apart from that i have no idea, I am only a lorry driver, All i can suggest is contacting 2k directly.

They have however been designed with hoardings etc in mind, being re-useable indefinatly, and then just going back to the factory and recycled again.

Like i say i am only a driver, So can only pass on what i have been told

 

Ta

Owen

 

 

[Jenny Emily]

It sounds like an interesting material, however as 66C says it needs to be confirmed as UV stable as having experienced how quickly cheap garden furniture turns to a crumbly white dust in the sun, I tend to be quite cautious! I would be uncomfortable in laying it direct over the ground, as it seems to me that this would be prone to some movement and undulation as the ground heaves and shrinks over the changing weather of the year.

 

Can anyone confirm that Peco streamline concrete sleepered track is not UV stable? If it is stable then using it would save me some money as it is being offered cheaper from places like Hattons. If not, I'll use it just on the internal portions.

[298]

Another option if you want something like wood but isn't is http://www.filcris.co.uk/ I've seen it at 16mm shows but think i'll be going down the more traditional route as my line will be at ground level. I'd also recommend joining this yahoo group: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/16mmngm/ , between the irrelevant banter there is actually quite alot of useful information.

[James Hilton]

Well guys I've laid my G-scale garden line using LGB trackwork.

In the end I read books, asked for advice and combined it all to create hopefully something pretty stable yet fairly realistic. First of all I roughly leveled the ground. Where the area was lower (behind a new retaining wall to seperate from the lawn) I filled with 'ballast' available from places like Wickes and B&Q which is the stuff you put into concrete. Once this was complete I marked out where the track needed to go and then used 'sharp sand' again sourced from Wickes. This was laid and tamped down firmly using a small board about 12x6" and levelled over a longer 4' length, both lengthways and across the trackbed. The track was laid directly on to this (which made some LGB guys cringe - sharp sand into mechanisms). This was left for a week to settle and we had some rain without any serious damage. I then used 'Horticultural Grit' from the garden centre to loose ballast the track. This was applied over the sleepers and brushed in by hand - pushed and tamped around the track.

 

This has produced a stable and attractive roadbed, that as weather and ground movements cause variation is easily tamped and topped up with more horticultural grit. The grit also acts like a ballast and ties the track together reducing the need in a short loop like mine for rail clamps as the track can't actually move now. I fully expect to have to undertake ballast maintenance a couple of times a year, but this is actually quite attractive as it feels like you're maintaining a real railway. If I was a live steamer it would be even more realistic from an operation point of view - however you can take the indoor modeller outdoors, but you can't take the indoor modeller outdoors, but you can never take the indoors out of him - hence track power (for now) rules.

 

Pictures are on my EJ&KLR blog back in the April and May archive.