PinzaC55 Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 Hi John , regarding your question on your site about the mystery concrete post at Beamish (I think) this was what the LNER called a "Pitfall Post" and it was used to measure subsidence due to mining. There's a thread on it here http://www.lner.info/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=8276&hilit=+Pitfall You may also be interested to know that I have the Trainz 2012 Rail Simulator and it has South Pelaw junction on it in a very basic form seen here trainz 2014-04-03 12-26-53-79 par PinzaC55, on ipernity I spent a few minutes and stuck an NER signalbox and a coal mine roughly in position plus deleting some of the vegetation here trainz 2014-04-03 12-35-20-37 par PinzaC55, on ipernity This is the view from the road bridge looking east. trainz 2014-04-03 12-36-08-86 par PinzaC55, on ipernity I don't have a 25" OS plan of South Pelaw but if you have one and could scan it and email me it I might have a crack at building the place accurately. I know one other guy is already doing this but don't know how far he has got. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porcy Mane Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 (edited) Hi John , regarding your question on your site about the mystery concrete post at Beamish (I think) this was what the LNER called a "Pitfall Post" and it was used to measure subsidence due to mining. There's a thread on it here http://www.lner.info/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=8276&hilit=+Pitfall Alan, you beat me to it. I wasn't aware of the thread on the LNER forum. Some where I have a book that gives quite a lot if detail on these posts. Sadly it isn't where it should be in the "filing system". The book is called "The Railway Book" I seem to remember it's publication date being quite late. Probably about 1970/2 although my copy may be a later imprint. On the other thread it's speculated to the posts being used to bring tracks back up to level in areas of mining subsidence. That's not quite their purpose. The posts would drop at the same rate as the nearby track bed and surveyor's would then measure from a fixed datum to calculate the amount of ballast being used to pack the railhead back up to level. The vertical graduations on the posts are at one foot an six inch increments. The ballast calculations were then used to charge the Coal Board for both the ballast and compensation. Regarding the spacing of the posts, I think this could vary. In a railway cutting about fifty yard from were I was born the posts were probably something like 15 yards apart yet about a mile south and were the area had been much more extensively mined (I have the mine abandonment plans.) the posts were much further apart. I don't know the logic behind that? P EDIT: Having just rescanned a neg that shows a couple of pitfall posts that I thought might have been fifteen yards apart. I was wrong. Being terribly unscientific about it, the posts in the piccy are a V2 Loco (66' 5⅛") + one LNER insulated Fish van,(22' 11") and two Conflat As (41' 10") apart. Tallying that lot up gives a tad under two chains so I reckon the poster on the LNER forum is about cock on with his estimate of 44 Yards spacing. I just wish I could find the book that gives all the details. Edited April 3, 2014 by Porcy Mane Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johndon Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 (edited) I don't have a 25" OS plan of South Pelaw but if you have one and could scan it and email me it I might have a crack at building the place accurately. I know one other guy is already doing this but don't know how far he has got. PM sent, you've got your work cut out Alan and Porcy, thanks for the additional information on that post, much appreciated. John Edited April 3, 2014 by johndon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PinzaC55 Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 Quick question for you John or anybody here: what was the gradient leaving South Pelaw towards Pelton? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johndon Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 According to the gradient profile in the book 'Consett to South Shields via Beamish' it was 1 in 73 between South Pelaw and Pelton. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PinzaC55 Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 Many thanks! I have completed the junction and only need to put in point rods and suchlike plus connect South Pelaw colliery up. Maybe another days work. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johndon Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 Looking forward to seeing it. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PinzaC55 Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 Here are a few , though it is far from complete yet. In case you don't have it I have found the DVD "Steam World Archive Series Volume 14 - The North East" very valuable as it has about 15 - 20 minutes of footage mainly at South Pelaw. First a 37 leaves Stella Gill sidings. trainz 2014-04-10 17-43-52-26 par PinzaC55, on ipernity Second she heads across the junction on her way to Tyne Yard. trainz 2014-04-10 17-45-54-63 par PinzaC55, on ipernity Last, a pair of 24s head across the layout on their way to Consett with iron ore hoppers. trainz 2014-04-10 17-42-16-32 par PinzaC55, on ipernity I have had to make some compromises with the signalling but I will be tightening it up shortly. BTW regarding John Hinson's diagram, as good as it is he missed out the bracket signal next to the road bridge adjacent to number 76 points! 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johndon Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 Very impressive stuff, I do think that the incline to what was the colliery is a bit too far away from the bridge though... John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PinzaC55 Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 It's highly unlikely to be wrong but I will check it tomorrow. To get the dimensions for the site I blew the plan you sent me up by 150% then measured on Google Earth the distance from the road bridge to the west end footbridge and divided this by the distance in millimetres on the plan. The result was that each millimetre on the plan = 6.48 feet so I measured every set of points and multiplied by 6.48.To do Stella Gill bridge I put the tops of the girders level with the ground then dug down to the height suggested by your photo. The physics of the simulator are "real world" so a 37 has a bit of a struggle to haul a full train out of there! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porcy Mane Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 (edited) Very impressive stuff, I do think that the incline to what was the colliery is a bit too far away from the bridge though... John Somewhere I have a LNER/South Pelaw Coal Co. deed plan for the access incline. I'll dig it out to see if it has any dimensions and distances on it. It's highly unlikely to be wrong but I will check it tomorrow. To get the dimensions for the site I blew the plan you sent me up by 150% then measured on Google Earth the distance from the road bridge to the west end footbridge and divided this by the distance in millimetres on the plan. The result was that each millimetre on the plan = 6.48 feet so I measured every set of points and multiplied by 6.48.To do Stella Gill bridge I put the tops of the girders level with the ground then dug down to the height suggested by your photo. The physics of the simulator are "real world" so a 37 has a bit of a struggle to haul a full train out of there! From memory it was the Stella Gill pilot loco that worked the colliery sidings. I think that latterly it would have been a class 08 or Class 03 or 04 shunters from Gateshead and then Tyne Yard for the short time Tyne Yard was open before the colliery closed in 1964. These diesels also took over the working of Waldridge incline after rope haulage ceased. Prior to dieselisation there are quite a few photos of N10s working the colliery yard and exchange Incline. There was a small slotted post starter signal on NCB the sidings some distance in from the boundary gate. The Colliery used side tipping wooden wagons to take spoil to the pit heap and latterly, up until closure had a strange rail mounted loco that was a converted lorry chassis. Somewhere I have photographs of the colliery and also the offices and associated boiler house that stood to the east of Pelton Lane. One thing I've never seen, is a photograph of the colliery level crossing although I have been told that a well known railway photographer who lived nearby and sadly no longer with us, undertook a full photo survey just after the colliery closed. I'll see if I can dig out any stuff that may of help but it will be well into next week as I've a train set shindig to be at over the next few days. P Edited April 11, 2014 by Porcy Mane Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve O. Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 (edited) Hi Gents, The online Beamish Museum "People's Collection" may be worth a look (especially if you're local and can visit to see the photos not yet scanned). Here (if the link works) is a quick search on "South Pelaw". Some good "Stella Gill" items too. http://collections.beamish.org.uk/search-results?query=South+pelaw&go.x=-710&go.y=-200&searchType=everything&withPhotos=0&hiQuality=0 There are entries for South Pelaw Colliery and (I think) the level crossing survey mentioned above. Cheers, Steve O. Edited April 11, 2014 by Steve O. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johndon Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 (edited) The turnout for the incline to the colliery sidings was a 3 way turnout and was much closer to the bridge that you seem to have drawn. It should be part of the turnout next to the buffer stop where you have the van parked. You can see the 3 way turnout underneath the signal next to the box on this EM gauge model of the junction: http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-LJECy2oQaLU/TyJ48sQsNFI/AAAAAAAAAQY/QAyz8-UaA64/s1600/IMG_3830.JPG as well as in the blown up section of the map below. John Edited April 11, 2014 by johndon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johndon Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 I'll see if I can dig out any stuff that may of help but it will be well into next week as I've a train set shindig to be at over the next few days. P You off to S4N Porcy? John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porcy Mane Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 You off to S4N Porcy? Yep. Playing (and probably crashing) trains all weekend. P Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johndon Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 Which layout, I'll stop and say hello... John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porcy Mane Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 (edited) Which layout, I'll stop and say hello... Smallest train set (although it's showing off it's latest 9" extension) with the most operators (3). Just listen out for the biggest gobs and you'll find us. Oh, I'm led to believe there is a bit of a rugby scrum due to take place opposite the layout first thing on Saturday morning so that may be a time to avoid. P Ps I'll bring some South Pelaw "stuff" for you to check over... Edited April 11, 2014 by Porcy Mane Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium New Haven Neil Posted April 11, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 11, 2014 Just stumbled across this thread - I was on the train in the origianl post! I only dimly recall steam on the iron ore, a 9F tearing the sky apart coming up from Tyne Dock bottom as we drove through the arches and went to Jarrow It was banked by a 350 though. By the time I could get around sans parents it was the 24's, used to go to Boldon Colliery station (Brockley Whins) to watch them - I still have a pellet of ore somewhere, the track looked like it was ballasted with it! Happy days. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrg Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 Can anyone confirm that the Consett ore hoppers were transferred to Immingham when Consett closed, for use on Scunthorpe trains? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PinzaC55 Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 (edited) The turnout for the incline to the colliery sidings was a 3 way turnout and was much closer to the bridge that you seem to have drawn. It should be part of the turnout next to the buffer stop where you have the van parked. You can see the 3 way turnout underneath the signal next to the box on this EM gauge model of the junction: http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-LJECy2oQaLU/TyJ48sQsNFI/AAAAAAAAAQY/QAyz8-UaA64/s1600/IMG_3830.JPG as well as in the blown up section of the map below. John Hi John, I have updated the points as you suggested but I don't know why JH showed them as 2 separate points on his diagram? It's more workable now with a smoother gradient. I'm in two minds as to whether to lay the colliery out as it's a lot of extra work! Steve O - when I click on the link it comes up "No Photo Available" - is that just my PC or has anybody seen them? Here's a couple more shots, first with a 9F then Q6 63387. trainz 2014-04-11 14-03-47-01 par PinzaC55, on ipernity trainz 2014-04-11 15-12-03-62 par PinzaC55, on ipernity Edited April 11, 2014 by PinzaC55 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 Can anyone confirm that the Consett ore hoppers were transferred to Immingham when Consett closed, for use on Scunthorpe trains? The bogie hoppers were scrapped and replaced by 100t tippler wagons in the early 1970s, loaded at Redcar rather than Tyne Dock. They were then sold to Procor and transferred to stone traffic from the Mendips:- http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/yeomantipplerpta/h160b3060#h160b3060 They were slightly different in design to the Immingham- Scunthorpe wagons, most noticeably in the type of bogie used. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johndon Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 Smallest train set (although it's showing off it's latest 9" extension) with the most operators (3). Just listen out for the biggest gobs and you'll find us. Oh, I'm led to believe there is a bit of a rugby scrum due to take place opposite the layout first thing on Saturday morning so that may be a time to avoid. P Ps I'll bring some South Pelaw "stuff" for you to check over... I'll be passing by, hopefully, around about lunchtime so I should miss the scrum... John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johndon Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 Hi John, I have updated the points as you suggested but I don't know why JH showed them as 2 separate points on his diagram? It's more workable now with a smoother gradient. I'm in two minds as to whether to lay the colliery out as it's a lot of extra work! Steve O - when I click on the link it comes up "No Photo Available" - is that just my PC or has anybody seen them? Here's a couple more shots, first with a 9F then Q6 63387. trainz 2014-04-11 14-03-47-01 par PinzaC55, on ipernity trainz 2014-04-11 15-12-03-62 par PinzaC55, on ipernity Very nice indeed... John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porcy Mane Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 Can anyone confirm that the Consett ore hoppers were transferred to Immingham when Consett closed, for use on Scunthorpe trains? Some ended up at Lackenby. This is a good start: http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/paulbartlettsrailwaywagonphotographs/h153c24e7#h153c24e7 I think this has been discussed to conclusion somewhere else on the forum? P Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johndon Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 (edited) I still have a pellet of ore somewhere, the track looked like it was ballasted with it! Still there to this day, almost 30 years since the last train. This lot was picked up just this week at the site of Beamish station, still just lying on the surface: John Edited April 11, 2014 by johndon 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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