A strange survivor

[Captain Kernow]

To my amazement, I was told today that the former semaphore Up Distant signal for Corsham, located in Box Tunnel, is still there!

 

 

(This photo was taken by a colleague of mine, whilst on legitimate work-related business and with all proper protection arrangements in place. Needless to say, it is completely impossible for this to be seen under normal circumstances)

[Steadfast]

Interesting find Tim!

Is it located by the tunnel mouth, or is there some floodlighting or camera flash involved? If it's visible, will have to keep my eyes peeled next time I'm on an HST. Not sure a mk3 racing along is the best opportunity for sighting anyway...

cheers

 

jo

[96701]

Love the flame cut spectacle.

[Tim V]

Not much room for a 4' arm, I assume it was used to change the aspect on the lamp.

 

A post '42 spectacle as well.

[Trainshed Terry]

You could say that it is a real rail mounted post signal.

 

Time for bed.

 

Terry.

[Captain Kernow]

Interesting find Tim!

Is it located by the tunnel mouth, or is there some floodlighting or camera flash involved? If it's visible, will have to keep my eyes peeled next time I'm on an HST. Not sure a mk3 racing along is the best opportunity for sighting anyway...

cheers

 

jo

It's pretty deep inside the tunnel, Jo, probably around 1/2 to 3/4 mile from the London-end..

[woodenhead]

Signal, Box Tunnel, unseen by the public - this has all the hallmarks of a hidden junction conspiracy, a strategic reserve hidden junction conspiracy.

[Captain Kernow]

Signal, Box Tunnel, unseen by the public - this has all the hallmarks of a hidden junction conspiracy, a strategic reserve hidden junction conspiracy.

My colleague who took the photo was also able to comprehensively debunk all that malarky - it can remain firmly fixed in the realm of myth and fantasy!

[Tim V]

Anyway, the rows of black fives are not on property that the Captain would have access to, so of course he is able to debunk that myth.

[beast66606]

My colleague who took the photo was also able to comprehensively debunk all that malarky - it can remain firmly fixed in the realm of myth and fantasy!

 

You mean his photo of the disused junction signal didn't come out ?

 

Interesting relic, effectively a mechanical 2-aspect colour light - no semaphore arm.

[Steadfast]

It's pretty deep inside the tunnel, Jo, probably around 1/2 to 3/4 mile from the London-end..

Thanks Tim, not visible then, unless I take some night vision goggles along

cheers

 

jo

[Penlan]

Would the signal have been also connected to one of those metal plates by the rail which via a lever made a very loud clanging noise.

 

I know they where used in some tunnels, but have no idea (after some 40+ years of hearing one) where they where.

 

Penlan

[Pacific231G]

My colleague who took the photo was also able to comprehensively debunk all that malarky - it can remain firmly fixed in the realm of myth and fantasy!

 

I thought the underground facilities adjoining Box Tunnel were totally common knowledge- they've even been shown on TV reports. There is a fairly good description on

Subbritt Corsham

The entrance wasn't inside Box Tunnel but alongside its eastern portal. This had been the entrance to Tunnel Quarry, an underground quarry developed to extract a seam of bathstone discovered when Brunel built Box Tunnel. The quarry was served by standard gauge sidings that entered through a tunnel mouth next to the GWR tunnel mouth and there are plenty of pictures of this on the net. I can remember seeing this with the siding still entering it on train journeys as a teenager in the 1960s. It wasn't hidden in any way but preumably everyone assumed it was still just the quarry. During the war the quarry had been taken over as a rail served ammunition store along with several other bathstone quarries in the area and there was a long loading platform inside and not far from the entrance. The quarry was apparently used as a protected command bunker during the cold war as part of the military base that still sit on Box Hill but it's not clear that the rail connection was used for that.

 

What amazes me is the number of references I've seen to this being some deep mystery with endless speculation about whether the overgrown cutting next to Box tunnel really could have been the entrance to some military facility. A web search will quickly reveal that yes it was along with plenty of photos so it's about as secret now as Bletchley Park.

 

One of the other underground ammunition stores in the area at Monkton Farleigh was opened as a museum for a few years in the 1980s and I visited it a couple of times but unfortunately it closed and that quarry is now used for secure storage but obviously firmly closed to the public.

[woodenhead]

I thought the underground facilities adjoining Box Tunnel were totally common knowledge

 

They are, my tongue was firmly in my cheek.

[great central]

Would the signal have been also connected to one of those metal plates by the rail which via a lever made a very loud clanging noise.

 

I know they where used in some tunnels, but have no idea (after some 40+ years of hearing one) where they where.

 

Penlan

 

There's one (fairly rusty) in Victoria South/Thurland street tunnel in Nottingham.

Photographed by a friend during a site visit a year or two ago, to check on the tunnel's condition. He's a highways engineeer and the tunnel runs under a road so has to be checked periodically.

Photos in 'The rise and fall of Nottingham's railway system Vol 3' by Hayden Reed, not on line I'm afraid.

[Fat Controller]

There's one (fairly rusty) in Victoria South/Thurland street tunnel in Nottingham.

Photographed by a friend during a site visit a year or two ago, to check on the tunnel's condition. He's a highways engineeer and the tunnel runs under a road so has to be checked periodically.

Photos in 'The rise and fall of Nottingham's railway system Vol 3' by Hayden Reed, not on line I'm afraid.

THere were some on the approaches to New Street, IIRC.

[ian]

My colleague who took the photo was also able to comprehensively debunk all that malarky - it can remain firmly fixed in the realm of myth and fantasy!

 

Your colleague has, no doubt, been sworn to secrecy and made to sign the Official Secrets Act so can't tell you.

[roythebus]

I thought the underground facilities adjoining Box Tunnel were totally common knowledge- they've even been shown on TV reports. There is a fairly good description on

Subbritt Corsham

The entrance wasn't inside Box Tunnel but alongside its eastern portal. This had been the entrance to Tunnel Quarry, an underground quarry developed to extract a seam of bathstone discovered when Brunel built Box Tunnel. The quarry was served by standard gauge sidings that entered through a tunnel mouth next to the GWR tunnel mouth and there are plenty of pictures of this on the net. I can remember seeing this with the siding still entering it on train journeys as a teenager in the 1960s. It wasn't hidden in any way but preumably everyone assumed it was still just the quarry. During the war the quarry had been taken over as a rail served ammunition store along with several other bathstone quarries in the area and there was a long loading platform inside and not far from the entrance. The quarry was apparently used as a protected command bunker during the cold war as part of the military base that still sit on Box Hill but it's not clear that the rail connection was used for that.

 

What amazes me is the number of references I've seen to this being some deep mystery with endless speculation about whether the overgrown cutting next to Box tunnel really could have been the entrance to some military facility. A web search will quickly reveal that yes it was along with plenty of photos so it's about as secret now as Bletchley Park.

 

 

Ah, but is it as secret as the secret nuclear bunker?

http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://i.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/01211/2712signs5_1211111i.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/picturegalleries/signlanguage/3917183/The-best-of-Sign-Language.html%3Fimage%3D8&h=400&w=551&sz=46&tbnid=qB9fOOCVz1_Z7M:&tbnh=97&tbnw=133&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dsecret%2Bnuclear%2Bbunker%2Bsign&hl=en&usg=__E82jr3EVzaoaAdQWHmEklG54c4c=&ei=o272S5zaA4Ki0gTr35HqBw&sa=X&oi=image_result&resnum=1&ct=image&ved=0CBkQ9QEwAA

[tre pol and pen]

i had heard that the Russians were storing the remains of Kestrel down there, but keep it under your hat!

[The Stationmaster]

Would the signal have been also connected to one of those metal plates by the rail which via a lever made a very loud clanging noise.

 

I know they where used in some tunnels, but have no idea (after some 40+ years of hearing one) where they where.

 

Penlan

 

I doubt it - the tunnel is straight so sighting shouldn't have been a problem apart from any hanging smoke and it presumably had an ATC ramp so no need even for a driver to see it!

 

There is another interesting, and in some ways amazing, survivor of a GWR distant signal which I noted recently was still in place getting on for 50 years after the line it served was closed and lifted.

[DonB]

Apologies if this is rather off-topic.

 

No remaining semaphore arm, but I photo'd this today, having cycled past it many times on the Sustrans route utilising the old GNR track bed at Etwall station site. The station building and yard have become a housing estate over the last 4 or 5 years.

 

I assume that the Concrete "Lattice" design was not unique, and appeared elsewhere in BR days?

 

 

There's a similarly abandoned, but metal, post at the Mickleover end of the route too, but rather more difficult to photograph due to tree growth.

 

 

And a relic of the line's use for "Tilting Train" trials:-

[Edwin_m]

No remaining semaphore arm, but I photo'd this today, having cycled past it many times on the Sustrans route utilising the old GNR track bed at Etwall station site. The station building and yard have become a housing estate over the last 4 or 5 years.

 

I assume that the Concrete "Lattice" design was not unique, and appeared elsewhere in BR days?

 

I think that's actually a post for a GNR Somersault Signal. Quite common on that company's routes and someone will no doubt know the date it must have been installed before but I guess probably pre-1923. The concrete post is likely to be longer-lasting than timber or steel alternatives, as illustrated by your other photo which looks like a tubular steel post - I believe the LNER standardised on these around 1940 and BR continued the same design.

[PhilJ W]

Apparently there is a signal arm still intact in the abandoned King William Street terminal of the City and South London Railway. It is now at least 110 years old!

[LNERGE]

I think that's actually a post for a GNR Somersault Signal. Quite common on that company's routes and someone will no doubt know the date it must have been installed before but I guess probably pre-1923. The concrete post is likely to be longer-lasting than timber or steel alternatives, as illustrated by your other photo which looks like a tubular steel post - I believe the LNER standardised on these around 1940 and BR continued the same design.

 

With the rod that is resting at an angle i will say the last arm on that signal was a standard upper quadrant.

[DonB]

I think that's actually a post for a GNR Somersault Signal. Quite common on that company's routes and someone will no doubt know the date it must have been installed before but I guess probably pre-1923. The concrete post is likely to be longer-lasting than timber or steel alternatives, as illustrated by your other photo which looks like a tubular steel post - I believe the LNER standardised on these around 1940 and BR continued the same design.

Thanks for that, it is tubular, and has several cast iron(?) brackets still attached, with raised part numbers, but no foundry identification or manufacturing date on the ones that I could see. There is also the remains of a flimsy looking platform near the top of the post.