Using a ruling pen

[gaf2u]

Excellent thread, let's not stop now as this is bar far the most substantive and informative discussion on ruling pens I've yet seen.

 

Yep, Ian R's book is good, but I'm afraid I have to trump it with some obsequious compliments to Larry. Truly magnificant work, my only regret being I can't afford to buy any of your commissions.

 

Gaf

[uax6]

Since the last post on this thread i have picked up a couple of old bow-pen sets. One is a Kern (and missing a couple of items although I'm not sure what!) and a lovely bone handled Jackson bros set (complete). Of course this leads me to lots of questions ;-}

 

I've bought some watchmakers loupes so that i can see the shape of the ends of these beasts. The Kern appears to be quite worn (on on side of the elipse it is quite flat) but seems to work ok, although I suspesct it is horned for a left-hander. The Jackson is pretty much the correct shape (going of Ian Rathbone's book) but seems quite reluctant to draw. One blade looks a bit jagged, so again this looks like it could do with a hone.

 

But whats the best way to hone these things? I don't want to destroy them, I want to be able to use them!

 

The next question is how thick must the paint be, I 've tried with the pens as they are and I get quite a blobby start and finish point, and that is with quite thick paint. Also how much should i be loading the pen up with? It seems to hold quite a bit, but it seems to dry in there, which is not ideal!

 

Any help will be appreaciated

 

Thanks

 

Andy G

[uax6]

I got home today and found a set of what can only be described as 'spares' had landed on the doormat:

 

The lid of the set proundly says 'International correspondence schools, London. British Made'. Looking at the compasses they are marked 'Thornton', so aren't a cheap set (well they were to me £10 to my doorstep), so it is quite sad to see them as they are.

 

Both pen handles are broken:

I hope that I can repair this. If only the breaks where further up the shaft, I could have just splinted them internally with a tube or bar, and superglued the lot back together. Sadly both are broken near where the butt of the nib finishes, so making it a bit more difficult. Any ideas please? External collar prehaps?

 

As for the nibs, well they look like they have been used with paint, and never cleaned! I hope his locos came out better than the pens!

 

Well the good news is that the whole set was cheap, and that i now have some pens to try honing out on. I'm going to have to try and sand out the paint (will a soak in white spirit help shift the dry paint??) and then hone the ends up. At least if I c*ok it up I haven't destroyed a good pen!

 

Any advice for getting these back to health please?

 

Andy G

 

[uax6]

Oh yes I forgot to add pictures of my other pens nibs:

 

This is my Kern:

Taken through a 20x loupe, you can see the flat stop on the nib.

 

The Jackson:

not quite a sharp an image, but it's hard to hold the loupe on the camera, and stop the pen rolling around!

 

Andy G

[MikeTrice]

This has a new handle made from a length of Aluminium tube. The bow is glued in and t'other end filled in with Millput which has subsequently been painted. I have a number of these, so different coloured ends help identification.

 

[uax6]

Thats a nice looking job, If I can get the blades sorted I might well do the same thing, I could also make handles for the spare blades that fit into the large compasses, as I doubt I'll ever need them otherwise...

 

Andy G

[uax6]

I spent the morning cleaning up the various blades in the broken set. To give you some idea of how bad they were her are some before and after shots, all taken through a x20 loupe.

 

They all had build-ups of paint and/or rust on both the inside and the outside of the blades. I used 1200 grit wet and dry, going lightly to polish the dirty out. Infact when examining the blades after cleaning with the loupe, I could see no other marks than those from the original manufacture, result!

 

The worst blade was the large pen:

Clearly painted up.

 

Afterwards:

Much better!

 

I then checked the tips to see if they were approximatley the correct shape (as per Ian R's book) and then drew and line on some paper with ink:

The two dark lines in the center are biro ones, showing how thin the blades would write.

 

I did all the blades in the box, and the results are quite pleasing. I now need to sort the handles out...

 

Andy G

[N15class]

If you are wanting to line with them it is better to check with gloss enamel rather than ink. Use a bit of shiny plasticard and you will get a better feel of what needs to be done if anything.

[Alan Kettlewell]

Andy,

 

If you read this thread back a couple of pages you'll find that 'Coachman' has provided an excellent overview including professional tips and probably answering all of your questions.

 

Regards

Alan

[Londontram]

Just found this thread, brilliant - keen to have a go, I've got an old pen set somewhere but never been brave enough to try in the past but I've got some Caledonian coaches to do so need to have a go and this thread has given me the courage to make a start

[uax6]

I'll update you a tad on my pens, the two with broken handles have been araldited back together and seem to be holding up ok. I've still not tested them with paint yet (it's still separating out!), but I have also aquired another set of pens for £6.50. One of them is a hinged pen, but sadly the end on the hinged blade is quite badly chewed up. I wonder if I'll be able to striaghten it or should I just cut the bale back so that it diassapears?

 

Andy G

[Dad-1]

MMmmmm ......

Will I get shouted at for reviving a thread that's been dead for over a year ?

Several years ago I almost finished a DJH 4 mm Caledonian 439 kit, but the drive was lost when I found

I couldn't get suitable decals for lining. I looked in at Ian Rathbone while lining at Warley a few years

back & nearly bought a bow-pen, but got lost in other jobs, as we do.

 

In the local market last week I saw 3 bow compass sets for sale, & just one loose head which I obtained for

£1, at that price I could afford to experiment. After cleaning up through a range of wet-n-dry papers I loaded

with matt black paint off a paint brush being used with matt black. All I had handy was the backing paper from a

wagon kit, which I tried drawing a freehand line on ........ It worked !!

 

Today I went back & bought a 'Lotter Germany' compass with what looked like an unused bow for £3 and having read

this thread a few times will be experimenting again.

One thing I would be interested to know - How do you do a tripple line - white each side of a black line ??

 

I think there will constantly be new-comers wanting to learn lining. Is 72 too old to start learning ?

 

Dad-1

Edited December 20, 2014 by Dad-1

[Dad-1]

O.K coachmann,

Christmas is over and at last I have time to play.

I have no book, no experience, have just the vaguest idea of what

I'm doing. But first gloss paint attempt shows some promise to my

eye, but I have some questions, first a picture of my pen tip & ruled

lines scaled against a dressmaking pin.

 

 

First - How much pressure should I use. I fear I may have used too much & scratched the plastic.

 

Second - I tried to move slowly & steadily, but ended up with some faults in the line when pace changed.

Do you think that is manipulation, or perhaps paint (not enough, too much, too thick, too thin ?

 

Although against lining-pen paint lore it flowed better after adding a little raw white spirit. It was then

I ran the curve around my magnifying glass rim.

I used the glossy side of raw plastic, is that giving me a false feel ? should I gloss paint a test piece ?

 

I hope you don't mind helping a 72 year old beginner !!

 

Dad-1

[coachmann]

O.K coachmann,

Christmas is over and at last I have time to play.

I have no book, no experience, have just the vaguest idea of what

I'm doing. But first gloss paint attempt shows some promise to my

eye, but I have some questions, first a picture of my pen tip & ruled

lines scaled against a dressmaking pin.

 

IMG_0650.jpg

 

First - How much pressure should I use. I fear I may have used too much & scratched the plastic. Enough pressure to hold the pen against a ruler but no pressure on the item being lined out.

 

Second - I tried to move slowly & steadily, but ended up with some faults in the line when pace changed. This happens. The key to a good line is a steady speed.

Do you think that is manipulation, or perhaps paint (not enough, too much, too thick, too thin ? Erratic speed can lead to line breaking or a splodge. Sometimes it is paint consistency.

 

Although against lining-pen paint lore it flowed better after adding a little raw white spirit. It was then

I ran the curve around my magnifying glass rim.

I used the glossy side of raw plastic, is that giving me a false feel ? should I gloss paint a test piece ? Lining on gloss paint is the best move. If necessary, I thin enamel with oil poured off new tins of Humbrol gloss paint. A creamy consistency is better than a runny consistency. Most of my lining is done with cellulose (neat & fast drying) but not many pros do.

 

I hope you don't mind helping a 72 year old beginner !!   I don't mind who asks or what age. Incidentally we are the same age, so good on yer for getting stuck into something new to you.

Edited December 29, 2014 by coachmann

[Dad-1]

I thank you for such a rapid reply.

I can see I shall need loads of practice, as of course is mentioned all through this thread !!

 

Now to try some semi gloss Revel cream.

 

Dad-1

[ullypug]

Very useful thread. Have just acquired a kern set from Chris as my Christmas pressie this year from the missus and am looking forward to playing with it.

[Dad-1]

Hi ullypug,

 

A little help from real craftsmen is so valuable.

 

Now I think I have a minor problem regarding the honing. I seem to get a better paint

flow with the tip at more of an angle than I want. These cream lines are somewhere in the

region of 0.4 mm, perhaps the far left nearer to 0.3 (very rough eye calculations).

I will sharpen again and add that small 'flat' when holding more upright.

 

 

Having skilled finishers to pester with questions gives me the confidence to plough on.

 

Some of my rough black lines may have been due to the tip being run down a steel rule

and I could feel the graduation marks - methinks a smooth edged rule is needed !!

 

Dad-1

[MikeTrice]

Will I get shouted at for reviving a thread that's been dead for over a year ?

Dad-1

Personally I would much rather you revive the existing thread than start a new one, which just duplicates what has gone before. Every time there is a new post we all learn a little bit more.

 

Sorry, I should have added that those lines are looking rather good.

Edited December 30, 2014 by MikeTrice

[RTJ]

Hi all, I am soon to start painting and lining a DA Patriot in 7 mm.

Some time ago I bought a set of bow pens and compasses.

They are marked "Temple of Wolverhamton". The model I have is the Debrett series.

Does anyone have any knowledge of these? Google doesn't help. Is it worth my while persisting with these or upgrading to a Haff pen?

Thanks,

Richard

Edited March 5, 2016 by RTJ

[MikeTrice]

Personally I would give the Temple pens a go. They might need honing first, it all depends on the previous owner.

[RTJ]

Personally I would give the Temple pens a go. They might need honing first, it all depends on the previous owner.

 

Yes Mike, thanks; I'll do that...it's just that I didn't want to waste my time in trying to make a silk purse from a sow's ear....if the metal was inferior etc I'd rather buy the Haff.

 

Thanks again,

 

Rich

[Iain Popplewell]

 

Great thread this and I just thought I'd add my tuppence worth to it.

 

Getting hold of ruling pens seems to be a bigger problem than even using one. The Haff pens website I found impenetrable and should be given a Kaisers Kings award for poor website construction. Thanks to Buck Jumpers earlier posting about buying a Keuffler and Esser pen from Haff, when the Ian Rathbone recommended pen was unavailable. I tried looking up Kueffler and Esser on the web.

 

This was lucky as previously trying to find ruling pens on-line had proved disappointing. However I stumbled across the magic term Drafting Set.

Typing in Kueffler and Esser Drafting Set turned up several complete sets of drawing equipment.

 

As seen on e-bay. (This is the set I purchased. Pay Pal in dollars.)

 

Edited January 23, 2017 by iainp

[Iain Popplewell]

 Most but not all sets appear to be for sale in America and $50 Dollars seems an average price for a decent set. Before Brexit $50 was about £32 and expect to pay £18 for postage.

 

I bought the above set of e-bay and from appearances thought it was possibly made of that strange alloy that was common in lab equipment in the 1950's but reckoned that the steel drawing tips looked good and should prove serviceable.

 

However after cleaning;

 

 

 

What I'd bought was of excellent quality and made of what looks to my eyes high quality steel.

 

I cleaned them up using good old Brasso for general cleaning. I avoided polishing the inside faces of the pens. The drawing ink that had dried on the tips many years earlier, after some experimentation I removed with Boiling water and I mean boiling water with Fairy liquid added. (Decades old dried ink is impervious to removal by white spirit and even cellulose thinners.)

 

I found these cotton buds handy for getting into the tips and dislodging loosened ink.

 

Edited January 23, 2017 by iainp

[Iain Popplewell]

 Next thing was to find out if the pens worked. So I spayed  up some Extra Decal waterslide decal paper with gloss green paint. (Hannants sell this amongst others.)

 

 

If you look in the earlier post you'll see next to the drafting set, green decal paper covered in mad lines and circles looking much like the cloud chamber of some atom smashing experiment. These are my first earlier experiments with the pens immediately after cleaning.

 

I decided I needed more practice and a little pen honing. Initially I honed the pens using 1200 wet and dry paper as recommended in this thread and by Coachman Rathbone etal. However only when I got some finer 2000 grade "Crocus paper" from Meadows and Passmore ltd. clockmaker suppliers did I achieve a lovely smooth tip.(www.m-p.co.uk)

Ps. Passmores send you a free catalogue with you're order for paper that has loads of interesting stuff with modelling uses.

 

After a little practice and honing. Earlier atom smashing experiment to left upper.

 

 

 

As mentioned by others in this thread the paint needs to be fairly thick so as to slowly flow to the tip of the pen. Too thin and it runs, too thick and it doesn't flow.

Edited January 20, 2017 by iainp

[Iain Popplewell]

Encouraged by my lining so far a bit rough I admit, but I am a total beginner I decided to line with white gloss either side of black lines.

 

Result NER. style boiler bands. Very rough and not too consistent boiler bands I admit. I feel slow consistent and smooth practised movement of the pen is the key. To achieve these results is not difficult.

 

 

I then scored either side of the ruled lines to make the boiler band transfers. If you score close to the line this serves to further tidy up any roughness to the outer lines. Pick the best cleanest bits of line for use obviously.