Steph Dale Posted June 10, 2010 Share Posted June 10, 2010 After being inspired by Colin's progress with his HAP and having already received a copy of David Jenkinson's 'Carriage Modelling Made Easy'. I thought I'd better put my money where my mouth is and have a go at building one of the most distinctive and attractive coaches ever to run on a British railway (IMHO! ) Modelling the Western Section of the SR/BR(S) means that one of these vehicles is a complete indulgence, but it would make an interesting and prototypical companion to my (yet to be built) Southwark Bridge Models DS1 inspection saloon. They're attractive vehicles as this picture on Wikipedia shows. Impressive too as at 65'2" over buffers they were longer than any other coaches built for the Southern until the Bulleid stock arrived. In model form they have their fair share of problems (matchboarding, inset doors, inset bolections, etc.) but also heavily influenced the following series of Maunsell vehicles so there are many details and parts available from the trade. In particular I shall be trying Slater's to get hold of some of the castings and mouldings from their lovely Maunsell coach kits. Plus, of course, the bogies Anyway - and so to the model. I know what Mr Jenkinson says about starting with the panelling. But on this vehicle with its narrow frame and significant length I was more worried about producing a stable frame for it to sit on. So after buying a significant amount of various Plastruct and brass sections, I set to work. Rivets are 'wire formed' from plastic rod, mostly 0.6mm. So that means drilling lots of holes, which means making a jig. Using my GW Models rivet press I set out the various rivet patterns on some scrap 0.020" brass which was then drilled through and carefully filed up a strip of 0.010" brass to act as a trimming guide: The rivets are pretty effective once formed. And as this vehicle hasn't got full length stepboards it'd be obvious if they weren't there: So with the solebars 'riveted' and having left them overnight to cure I set about making the floor and framing. That's a large rectangle of 0.080" plasticard and a lot of Plastruct channel section! To add to the complication, these vehicles aren't symmetrical in any way. For example: the frame is off set to one end as the brake end has conventional draft gear and buffers with a flush bufferbeam, the saloon end has a drop-head buckeye coupler and retractable buffers, so an underset bufferbeam. The brake cylinders and 'V' hangers are both on one side too, so care needs to be taken when positioning the rivet detail for the brake gear brackets. Which I got wrong first time.... The pic shows the frame and floor assembled, with the odd blob of filler. I'm not entirely sure why I did the filling as you'd have to turn the model upside-down to see the effect. You can see it's already on my sheet of plate glass, with the ballast handy. It'll therefore remain flat and weighted as the solvent evaporates, until I need it next. Next job includes a quick rub down underneath to reduce the thickness of the bottom web of the Plastruct channel and then I've got to make and fit the bufferbeams. Oh well, it's a start. And a relatively quick one - about four or five hours over four evenings this week has got me this far. Steph Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steph Dale Posted June 14, 2010 Author Share Posted June 14, 2010 The silliness has begun. So has the arrival of packages of parts that will be incorporated in the build. The first to arrive was from those nice people at Slater's Plastikard who were happy to provide me with a number of sprues cherry picked from their Maunsell coach kits. I started with the accumulator boxes. These are a little different to the production Maunsell coaches in that they have three hinges per door. So out with 0.005" plasticard and some 0.3mm plastic rod to make up a new set of hinges. While I was at it I thought I might as well make up a set of wire handles too. In the process of the assembly I hacked out the top of the box. This will serve two purposes; for a start it'll allow the solvent to evaporate rather than be trapped inside, secondly it means I can fill the box with fluid lead and superglue. Well, I'll be able to when my order comes through from Eileen's... I've also made progress with the bufferbeams and successfully joined lengths of plastic rod to make up the vacuum pipe that runs along one of the solebars. Hopefully I won't have too busy a week and will be able to get further assembly done over another couple of evenings... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steph Dale Posted June 17, 2010 Author Share Posted June 17, 2010 Another couple of hours down and the story continues... I finished the bufferbeams. Probably rather too pleased with myself at the outcome, if I'm honest. But it's been good to get them out of the way as there was a significant chance of a vertically launched male fowl - if I'd attached them the wrong way round on the frame it'd be back to square one. One of the things I never did like about building in styrene was that you (generally) only get one shot at getting it right. So here are the bufferbeams. Note that not all the holes have been riveted - those remaining are for brass details to be added. I have run out of 0.6mm plastic rod too. But it's just a coincidence. Honest. I even had the chance to trim back the solebar on one side ready for the vacuum pipe to thread through the stepboard brackets. The other major job was the fitting of the accumulator boxes. I got the liquid lead through the post from Eileens this morning. Also included was the Evergreen sheet for the matchboarding so I should be able to start work on the sides and ends over the weekend. The liquid lead is fixed in with super-runny cyano, dribbled on. After leaving it for about half an hour I dribbled more on and followed with accelerator to make sure it had cured. It did. But the superglue didn't make it the whole way down in the boxes and so they both rattle if shaken. Ho hum - I hope it doesn't matter. In terms of fitting them to the chassis I used the support frame as a jig to spot the drill holes for the 0.45mm handrail wire I wanted to use for the hangers. Lengths of wire were then superglued vertically in the two centre holes to help align the accumulator boxes as they're fitted. And that's the view here: By the time you read this they'll both be fixed in place and the rest of the hangers fitted, so I'm now at the point where I can probably leave the frame to settle off for a day or so while I have a think about the bodywork. Though it may help to get some of the brake gear in place before I get too much further. Just out of interest - are there any other coach-building fiends out there? I'd like to know if I'm doing something daft as I go. On that basis all thoughts and comments are welcome... Steph Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted June 18, 2010 Share Posted June 18, 2010 Excellent work Steph, The level of detail is fantastic. You must have a very good set of drawings for this build. The rivets look just right, in fact it all does! The truss rods will be functional on your coach judging by all the liquid lead in those boxes. Looking forward to seeing how you progress on this project. I think styrene is more forgiving than you do though! Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steph Dale Posted June 18, 2010 Author Share Posted June 18, 2010 Colin, Thanks for your comments. I'm very pleased with the way that the rivets have come out and they will add a certain 'something' to the finished model. Please don't get me started on drawings! I think I've got the same trouble with this that you have with your HAP. I have managed to get together a good bundle of photos through the SEmG Yahoo group, which has helped enormously. Although some of those need some interpretation as neither of the vehicles preserved are in conditions which are truly representative of their SR or BR(S) lives. So, a few drawings, a few photos and bit of intuition should be enough to get a reasonable model. It's not as though I'm producing a rake of them or that there are too many other models of this series of coaches which they could be compared to. The lead in the battery boxes will help for sure. There's a useful 100g or so all told. That will help get an amount of the all-up weight in the right place (below the height of the bogie pivots) which will help running. You're right about the truss rods, they will have to be structural. I have a quantity of 2mm x 2mm brass angle in stock ready for doing them. But, as the Plasticweld has caused the styrene to shrink slightly in the frame it has bowed upwards - so I'll have to fit the truss rods in place with the frame weighted down on a sheet of plate glass. No physical work on the model this evening. Though I have been working through various drawings, photos, bits and pieces to get the profile and part dimensions worked out for the next phase of assembly. The last few items required for assembly are now here courtesy of CRT; seats, roof ventilators and door handles. So in the interests of science I did quick tot-up of the invoices and realised I'd spent roughly the same amount on this as you would expect for a Slater's coach kit. So not particularly cheap. But I suppose I've got enough parts and materials here to make another vehicle in most cases and enough plasticard to build another half a dozen coaches. And I haven't skimped on buying the best parts and materials I could find... It's turning into a fun project. Hugely challenging in its way as it seems to have all the complicated features (barring a clerestory or domed end to the roof) which David Jenkinson warns about. I'm looking forward to the next vehicle(s) as LSWR coach sides, even if fully panelled, look to be easier. Steph Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted June 19, 2010 Share Posted June 19, 2010 Hi Steph, That's funny, your chassis has bowed upwards and so has mine. It must be a case of unequal forces on top of the floor; nothing above and many joints underneath. (There is always the possibiltiy of laminating a thin layer of plastic sheet on top perhaps). I don't know what David Jenkinson has to say about coach sides etc., but laminating layers of plastic sheet seems to keep everything stable. I'm sure you will find it will all level out when the chassis is fitted with its bogies. I agree that it' a good idea to keep the weight low on coaches by using metal for details below floor level as much as possible. As for the cost of your coach, it'll be unique and made by you, what price can you put on that! Did you ever see any of the coaches that Mike Peascod made form plastic sheet in the 70's? He even devised a way, I remember, to 'clip' the bodysides to the floor. We could start a plasticard coach building revival! Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steph Dale Posted June 19, 2010 Author Share Posted June 19, 2010 Colin, I don't think the bow to the chassis is a huge problem either - it's a nice smooth curve which means it should 'pull out' okay once it's screwed to the body. I suspect that the truss rods and steam heat plumbing will help too; assuming I remember to have the frame on glass when I add them. For the sides I'm not going to use a traditional lamination in the way that you have. The 'Continental' stock profile isn't curved, but consists of an angled upper and vertical, matchboarded, lower panel. So it's going to have to be made in two parts. But, using the Jenkinson approach I can make it on one backing layer and use strip plasticard to provide the shape. A useful bonus is that the resulting shape will form two long box sections which should be helpfully strong and rigid and stop the sides bowing. If you've not seen the Jenkinson book then I suspect that's all about as clear as mud... In terms of the cost of the thing you're quite correct about the perceived value of such one-off items. It's being built for me, by me for my own enjoyment and what price happiness? In terms of cash value, however the photo below illustrates the major items bought for this project: Clockwise from top right we have: Slater's etched Southern Railway bogies, Albion Metals 2mm brass L for truss rods, CPL Southern 2-shackle couplings, Slater's buffers for brake end, Slater's buffers for gangway end, Slater's battery box and u/frame detail sprue, a single Slater's Pullman gangway, Slater's drop-head buckeye coupler set, CRT door handles, CRT roof ventilators, CRT seat mouldings, then the plasticard sheet stock in A3 size; 0.010"-0.080", Evergreen styrene sheet in 0.005" and the scribed sheet of 'siding' for the matchboard panels, sections for detail; rivets, plumbing, door hinges, lock plates, door bangers, etc, tube and square section for vacuum reservoirs and gangway buffers, channel sections for underframe and finally three sections of Slater's Maunsell coach roof. Quite a bit eh? Next job is to finish working out how it'll all fit together and make up the matchboard panels from the Evergreen sheet. 'Tis all for now, Steph Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted June 19, 2010 Share Posted June 19, 2010 Hi Steph, That's an impressive collection of materials and components! I didn't know that you could get plastic sheet in A3 size, well, for 0 gauge you have to have it that size. I shall have to look for a copy of the Jenkinson book it seems a 'must-have' sort of thing. Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steph Dale Posted June 24, 2010 Author Share Posted June 24, 2010 Colin, You're quite right about the large sheets of plasticard, apparently Slater's will readily provide sizes up to about 4' x 2'. I was lucky in that I was able to get most of the stock materials (Plasticard, Plastruct, Brass angle, Mek-Pak, Plasticweld, Superglue, etc.) from my local modelshop. The other bits have come as mail order from the specialist trade. The Jenkinson book is well worth having. Like many who build styrene coaches I'm deviating a little from his techniques - I'm not hugely in favour of his technique of producing roofs, so will be using vac-forms or, as in this model, modifying something representative to fit. I did mention I was going to narrow the roof mouldings didn't I? Oh dear... In a previous posting you mentioned drawings. In fact I've managed to cull a load of info from books, the internet, members of the Southern Email Group and friends, this picture gives an idea of some of it. You may recognise the drawings as being enlarged versions of the ones in the Mike King book? The truth is that at this size the King drawings get a bit 'flaky'. I think they're probably originated at 4mm/ft so increasing their scale will naturally increase the magnitude of any error - in the case of these drawings that results in the window dimensions each being +/- 0.5mm. Which is where problems can start. One solution I've used here is to pull detail directly from photos. I've used Photoshop to remove perspective distortion from a couple of good pictures, the before, after and results can be seen on the right hand side and taped over the drawing. From here, with help from the Coutanche book, I've been able to work out both the prototype and model dimensions, which are each recorded in my log book (also shown here) ready for me to have an en-mass cutting session over the weekend: I have managed to get a couple more bits actually done on the model before damaging myself. Oh well, I suppose I'll heal. The buffers have gone on. I'm still finding it a bit strange to model a vehicle where the detail is so different at each end. I've also dug out a fret of brake details from a Slater's Maunsell coach kit to see whether it might work on this model. And I have joined the sections of Evergreen siding stock to provide me the strips I need for the lower panels. Just like everything else it's been weighted and on glass as it's been setting. That'll do for the moment. Cutting out the sides and having a bash at the roof are next, I think... Steph Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted June 28, 2010 Share Posted June 28, 2010 Hi Steph, I've just seen your latest post. A pretty impressive amount of research! Having been out of the modelling sphere for so long, it seems I have missed out on some of those books that you show in your photos! It certainly is a very interesting coach that you are building. I hope the injury you speak of is not too bad. A sharp knife was it?! Re. the chassis: Is it still nice and flat? Mine isn't! I have decided on a brass subframe set inside the plastic solebars to keep it all in place. What are you going to do about the truss rods? Brass section? Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steph Dale Posted June 28, 2010 Author Share Posted June 28, 2010 Colin, 'Tis true; there have a been a good number of books out within the last few years that are of interest to the Southern modeller... The frame? Still as delightfully swoopy as it was. However it's certainly going to pull out when the truss rods and steam heat pipe are added. As you suggest the truss rods will be soldered up from brass angle which I may well end up pinning in to the frame and bonding with superglue just to make sure. If all else fails I'll just use lots of screws to hold the frame and body together. I've got a further cunning plan; which could use the partition wall as a strengthening rib along the top of the frame. I've been following your thread and understand your thoughts about using a brass subframe. In 7mm where the parts are a bit bigger I'd have a concern about the expansion of the brass causing the glue to fail. In 4mm it's probably not a problem though. I had a good weekend with this model though: I'm now on my second set of sides after finding out that the first long ruler I had wasn't actually straight. But I got them cut out in the end. I even managed to get the inserts for the windows in; the assembly is drying off at the moment. I should get the bolections on by the end of the week. And yes it was nice and sharp, at least it'll heal quickly ;-) Steph Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steph Dale Posted June 30, 2010 Author Share Posted June 30, 2010 Well it's now been a few days since my last update. Real progress to report this time. And a small disaster; which is why I'm typing this not doing more work on it. Mutter, mutter... One of the jobs that has to be done during this construction is to narrow the roof. I chose this approach for a number of reasons. Not least that the Slater's version of the Maunsell R4 roof is pretty good for shape (ignoring the rainstrips) and being injection-moulded will be pretty stable. For narrower vehicles, such as the Continentals, the radii of the curves remain the same, but the width changes overall. I decided that in order to guarantee this on my model a quick check of the profile would be a good idea. From this profile I'll be able to build a supporting structure and assemble the roof on that, so it remains stable and capable of adding some useful strength to the body. The photo shows the nature of the issue: The main story is that I've started cutting out and assembling the upper sides. From my various drawings and photos I marked up the sides on a wide strip of 0.030" plasticard: The shapes are then all cut out. I decided to inset the window panels, so the cut follows that shape. The droplight cut outs are to finished size however. The window areas are then in-filled with pieces of 0.020" plasticard to give a set of rebated panels: Once it's cured off and been tidied up by scraping around with a curved scalpel blade you get quite a nice effect: With the sides progressing I considered whether there might be any more effects of the curved 'straight' edge I was inadvertently using. Thankfully the frame was good. But not so for the matchboarded lower side panel which has had to come apart and be rejoined. This time I used the decent rule and all should be well by the morning: And the disaster? Well I started cutting out and glueing on the bolections this evening. It was all going so well until I slightly overloaded the brush with MEK. The result is one bolection melted out of all recognition. I'll leave the resulting mess to harden off and get back it over the weekend. Grrr. Steph Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted July 2, 2010 Share Posted July 2, 2010 Hi Steph, My goodness, haven't you finished it yet!! (Only joking!). Your work on the sides looks very good indeed - pity abut the straight edge, I know the feeling. The inset panels are nice and crisp aren't they? I note your concerns about expansion re. brass trusses and so on. You are probably right in saying that screws or pins would be a more certain and permanent method of fixing such things. My truss sub-frames have corrected the bowing of the floor, which is remarkably stiff and flat now (well that's what trussing is there for on the real thing). The effect is bound to be the same on your coach floor. I can sympathise with the bolection disaster too. MEK is certainly tricky in large amounts and can be quite destructive if it cannot 'vent' off. I think using a tiny brush to apply it helps to limit the chance of over-wetting the work. I have noticed that the styrene used for plastic sheet is far more prone to MEK problems than moulded kit parts, being much softer. (Although we wouldn't want to be cutting coach windows out of anything too tough would we?) As you talk of the partition wall being used to strengthen the floor, are you going to build the interior directly onto the floor of your model? Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steph Dale Posted July 3, 2010 Author Share Posted July 3, 2010 Hi Steph, My goodness, haven't you finished it yet!! (Only joking!). I guess I asked for that didn't I? Your work on the sides looks very good indeed - pity abut the straight edge, I know the feeling. The inset panels are nice and crisp aren't they? I note your concerns about expansion re. brass trusses and so on. You are probably right in saying that screws or pins would be a more certain and permanent method of fixing such things. My truss sub-frames have corrected the bowing of the floor, which is remarkably stiff and flat now (well that's what trussing is there for on the real thing). The effect is bound to be the same on your coach floor. I am very pleased with the way that the panels have worked out. Although I'm not sure I'd chose to do another of these later SECR-style coaches in the same way. Something to think about if I ever decide to make a model of the last versions of the 'Birdcage' stock, I suppose. I'm sure the floor will be fine. I'll get to the stage where I've got the major structural items of the model in front of me before I think about it further; there may be a simple solution. I can sympathise with the bolection disaster too. MEK is certainly tricky in large amounts and can be quite destructive if it cannot 'vent' off. I think using a tiny brush to apply it helps to limit the chance of over-wetting the work. I have noticed that the styrene used for plastic sheet is far more prone to MEK problems than moulded kit parts, being much softer. (Although we wouldn't want to be cutting coach windows out of anything too tough would we?) As you talk of the partition wall being used to strengthen the floor, are you going to build the interior directly onto the floor of your model? I must admit I was surprised at the amount of MEK a 00 or 000 brush can hold! I do need more practise and I certainly need to develop a bit more feel for when to use MEK or Plasticweld and how they react with the three (hmm, maybe four?) grades of styrene used in this model. You're quite correct in your comment about the hardness of the styrene, but I wouldn't mind it being a bit harder at times... Yes - I'm thinking about building the interior in full on the floor. Unlike your model this is corridor stock so I've got some wriggle room and won't need to make the final decision just yet. I've had a couple of hours today to make a start on the roof. I'm hoping I can get it structurally complete before I turn in this evening. It's all built around what is basically an inverted 'T' shape. The two outer strips on the underside form a rebate for the top edge of the sides, the centre one is there simply to support the shape of the roof structure as it drys off under weight: The centre part of the 'T' supports the middle of the roof, which has a join in it after narrowing. This shot shows how the narrowing of the roof has made it lower and gives some idea of how the support structure will work. The large holes have been cut out so I can splodge some Plasticweld in the joins from underneath, if I need to: And much earlier today I got the last of the bolections on: Tomorrow or Monday I shall finish cutting the window apertures on these upper sides; then I guess it's on to doors and ends. Steph Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steph Dale Posted July 6, 2010 Author Share Posted July 6, 2010 More progress; this time it's possible to start getting an idea of how the finished vehicle might look; rather than just some 'under construction' photos. First and most obvious is that the roof blank is complete. It's straight, flat, very strong and made up slightly over length. In fact all the things you'd really want a roof to be at this stage. Here it is, all ready for trimming, canvassing and detailing: I've also started the final stage of the bolections. This photo gives a really good idea of how the effort is starting to pay off. I've now put the rebate on about a third of them. I'll hope to get the rest of them done during the week and will do a final inspection under daylight before being happy to move on to building them up into sides with the other components. So the top, small windows now have a set of pretty good window mouldings, the larger windows showing what they looked like after the window apertures had been cut, but before the rebate/chamfer had been dressed in. It makes a huge difference to the appearance and is one area where this method of construction trounces etched brass: Steph Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Western Star Posted July 7, 2010 Share Posted July 7, 2010 And much earlier today I got the last of the bolections on: Steph My apologies for asking... what is the reason for / cause of the odd shapes in the window spaces? I like your work which is very encouraging for budding coach builders. regards, Graham Beare Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steph Dale Posted July 7, 2010 Author Share Posted July 7, 2010 My apologies for asking... what is the reason for / cause of the odd shapes in the window spaces? I like your work which is very encouraging for budding coach builders. regards, Graham Beare Graham, Thank you for the complement. To be honest I wouldn't start with a coach like this if it was my first one; it's got pretty much every 'horror' going. The odd shapes in the window spaces are rough cuts in the 0.010" bolections so I could add the solvent from inside the window; rather than risking softening the detail of the panel or eroding the (profiled) edge of the bolection itself. It wasn't entirely successfull in the first attempt; as I found many of the bolections needed re-sticking during later stages of the assembly. It has resulted in a nice neat finish though, as the latest installment shows. If I were doing a conventional panelled coach, I may well apply the solvent from the outside edge of the bolection, but in this coach with the inset bolections there was a risk of the solvent 'puddling' - which did, in fact, happen once when I overloaded the solvent brush. This was what led to the melt-down which happened earlier in the construction. I hope that answers your question? Steph Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Western Star Posted July 7, 2010 Share Posted July 7, 2010 The odd shapes in the window spaces are rough cuts in the 0.010" bolections so I could add the solvent from inside the window; rather than risking softening the detil of the panel or eroding the (profiled) edge of the bolection itself. It wasn't entirely successfull in the first attempt; as I found many of the bolections needed re-sticking during later stages of the assembly. It has resulted in a nice neat finish though, as the latest installment shows. I hope that answers your question? Steph Umm, not quite. I am trying to understand how the panelling and bolections have been created by use of the layers - any chance of a sketch of a cross-section through a window or toplight? The underlying reason for asking is that 7mm GWR Dreadnoughts and GCR Robinson corridor stock are on our agenda and such coaches have similar characteristics to your model... panelling, bolections, drop lights. thank you Graham Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steph Dale Posted July 7, 2010 Author Share Posted July 7, 2010 Graham, No problem! Sorry I didn't answer your question better first time... I wonder if it might help to explain what's in the photo you referred to. The two upper sides are made from the same strip, with a bit of waste in the middle which is sacrificial when I finish cutting to size. So the photo shows the compartment side at the top (the right way up) and the corridor side at the bottom (upside down). In terms of how it goes together I hope this diagram makes some sense. It's reproduced here full size A4 at 300dpi but is basically a tidied-up version of the notes in my log book: I'm not familiar with either of the coach styles you quote (unless you're talking about 'Barnam' coaches for the GCR stock?) so I'm unsure exactly how well the approach I've taken will apply. For fully panelled stock you might be better sticking to the classic David Jenkinson approach of using a 0.010" beading layer over a 0.020" side, assuming you're working in 7mm scale. This is the approach I'll be using for the LSWR panelled stock I've got to build. I didn't favour that idea for this vehicle because in the brake and lavatory there would be a large area of thin laminates. I was concerned about warping and the possibility that there could be solvent remaining trapped between the layers. Much better to use a single layer of material, I thought. I should add that, other than the construction of the upper sides, I'm continuing to use the basic approaches outlined by Jenkinson - there will be a 0.040" inner layer and strips to put the shape and strength into the sides. The main deviation will be that I'm going to permanently join the ends and roof to the carcase; the floor and interior will be removable instead. Have I done better that time? Steph Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted July 7, 2010 Share Posted July 7, 2010 Hi Steph, I've enjoyed looking at your latest photos. An absolute masterclass in bolection fabrication. The plasticard coach building revival starts here..... Perhaps you should be writing a book on coach construction. Colin Parks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steph Dale Posted July 7, 2010 Author Share Posted July 7, 2010 Hi Steph, I've enjoyed looking at your latest photos. An absolute masterclass in bolection fabrication. The plasticard coach building revival starts here..... Perhaps you should be writing a book on coach construction. Colin Parks Colin, Just this evening I've been asked/told by a long-standing friend that a set of '35-stock Maunsell coaches would make a nice contrast to his existing set of low-window Maunsell stock. No kidding. When I finish working that one out I'll get back to you about the book... I'm still genuinely surprised at how quick and straightforward it is to build coaches using the methods advocated by David Jenkinson. Most weeks I haven't managed more than half an hour every other evening and you can see this build has come on fast. Admittedly it'll slow down when it comes to assembling the bogies, but I'll make up for that by building three or four sets at the same time. What I am also finding pleasing is that it is starting to open up wider options for the types and styles of coaches I can make and run. So I've started thinking about Ironclad coaches, LSWR panelled corridor stock, etc, etc, and wondering how I might model them. And yes, I was the one to broach the subject of the later Maunsell stock - me and my big mouth Building this coach also means that the small pile of Cavalier/RJH Bulleid coach sides I have in the office may get made up into carriages sooner rather than later. I'm thinking in terms of aluminium roofs with the brass sides and styrene for the floors, interiors and ends. Steph Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Western Star Posted July 8, 2010 Share Posted July 8, 2010 Graham, Have I done better that time? Steph Absolutely, thank you. The sketch confirms my understanding of the construction technique... I could not align the text with what I thought I could see in the picture. If you intend to make the sides and ends as one unit with a removable floor, then how are you going to deal with glazing the side? I recall that the removable end allowed Jenks to insert the glazing after painting the coach. regards, Graham Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steph Dale Posted July 8, 2010 Author Share Posted July 8, 2010 Graham, As this coach has inset doors I've scuppered any notion of feeding the glazing in from the ends anyway. And I'm not a big fan of feeding it in from above as that approach often leaves coaches with a 'wavy' cantrail. On this vehicle the glazing occurs on three seperate planes; the window level, the droplight level and then the door glazing. So the solution will be to fix it in to the sides from behind. At the moment I expect I shall use my normal material (CD box 'crystal') and stick it in using Johnson's 'Klear'. Though with a model of this size I am tempted to try and get hold of some 0.5mm or 1.0mm thick Cobex sheet as it could make the cutting out easier. Steph Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted July 8, 2010 Share Posted July 8, 2010 Graham, As this coach has inset doors I've scuppered any notion of feeding the glazing in from the ends anyway. And I'm not a big fan of feeding it in from above as that approach often leaves coaches with a 'wavy' cantrail. On this vehicle the glazing occurs on three seperate planes; the window level, the droplight level and then the door glazing. So the solution will be to fix it in to the sides from behind. At the moment I expect I shall use my normal material (CD box 'crystal') and stick it in using Johnson's 'Klear'. Though with a model of this size I am tempted to try and get hold of some 0.5mm or 1.0mm thick Cobex sheet as it could make the cutting out easier. Steph Hi Steph, If you are to use cobex, what would you fix it with? I have never used 'Klear' for fixing glazing as you suggest. I did buy a bottle but it seemed to weak to be effective as an adhesive - or is there more than one kind of Johnson's Klear? On your coach you are at least lucky in having flat window panes, any ideas about curved glazing? (You can guess what for!) Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steph Dale Posted July 8, 2010 Author Share Posted July 8, 2010 Hi Steph, If you are to use cobex, what would you fix it with? I have never used 'Klear' for fixing glazing as you suggest. I did buy a bottle but it seemed to weak to be effective as an adhesive - or is there more than one kind of Johnson's Klear? On your coach you are at least lucky in having flat window panes, any ideas about curved glazing? (You can guess what for!) Colin Colin, I've never really had a problem sticking things with Klear, but I must confess I also use an epoxy resin that's formulated for repairing glass on the odd occasion. The Klear can be made to flow under capillary action and then left to set. Prepared like this it can take a while to dry! In terms of forming glazing I've got the same concerns floating around the back of my mind with my Bulleid coaches. I've never seen it done convincingly on 7mm models as I think most people either leave it flat or use thin glazing material and hope it'll form to shape - which, of course, it doesn't. This strikes me as being one area where relatively thick material has its advantages. Hot forming seems the most sensible - you could quite easily make a former (22 foot radius on a Bulleid coach side by the way) and get it to curve in the same way as your roof was made. 0.020" stuff would probably work well for you - I'd probably aim for 0.030-0.040"ish in 7mm. For my models I'm likely to try the 'two sinks' method - very hot water in one; soak the sheet, put it over a rolled brass former and then put it into the cold water in the second sink. I hasten to add that it's only an idea and although I've had good success plug forming plastic sheet in the past (i.e. like your roof), I've never used the techniques on pieces this large. The big risk is that the heat doesn't permeate the whole way through the material, this will cause two problems. First is that the bend won't form or hold consistently and secondly the material is likely to 'cloud' as the strain in the middle of the material causes fine stress cracks. I hope this helps; though I can't offer any guarantees. As I said, at this stage it's only an idea. Steph Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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