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Hornby Class 423 4-VEP


Adam1701D
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Digressing slightly,

 

Some Bulleid design refurbished 4EPBs also had express gear ratios as they used ex-2SAP (ex-2HAP) 5601-5636 series DMBS:

Selhurst-based 5401, 5410, 5425 had those up to then.

My RCTS 1982 British Rail coaching stock book still listed 27 Bulleid design 2SAPs in service with express gearing, apart from 5624 which had a BR Mk1 ex-2HAP DMBS. They were disbanded by 1983 and those Bulleid design motor coaches then ended up forming more refurbished 4EPBs.

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Mine has arrived (and is chip fitted). Just thought i'd share some interesting comparisons...

 

NSE flashes 4VEP vs 2EPB

 

post-1105-0-25104100-1316033956_thumb.jpg

 

NSE blue 2EPB vs 4VEP

 

post-1105-0-72058200-1316033990_thumb.jpg

 

Cab ends - MJT - Hornby - MTK (on a Lima coach)

 

post-1105-0-81343400-1316033968_thumb.jpg

 

The blue is quite dark but does seem a similar shade to my Heljan 33114 and 47711 - i'm assuming it's lighter than the very dark shade Hornby used on 50002 and 50045.

 

Headcode stickers are an interesting feature but a right pain to fit!

 

In terms of speed it runs faster than the Bachmann units but not by a lot. I have run it as a 12 car formation for about 5 minutes (VEP,EPB,EPB,CEP) and no derailments occured.

Edited by kintbury jon
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There were two different shades of NSE blue:

 

The paler blue livery was first applied from June 1986 on Network SouthEast's launch, initially with the BR double arrow logos, but from late 1987, they adopted a darker shade with the upsweep at each end curved rather than angular, at the same time approval was given for the blue band to finish below the door stops and handles to make it easier to mask off for repainting.

The refurbished units first appeared in Mar. 1988 so always wore the darker shade of blue. I've seen all the RTR manufacturers each use subtly different shades of the dark blue livery.

Edited by gc4946
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Whilst there were two official shades of NSE blue, fading, time since last repaint, number of times through the carriage washer, patch repairs etcetera meant that various variations in shades even on different coaches within the same unit were not uncommon.

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BREAKING NEWS: (Ya not gonna like this)

Houston we have a new problem. It has been brought to my attention that all six VEP trailer bogies have been modelled the wrong way around on at least some or possibly all of the production. In other words, the traction rods (the round section hinged from the middle) should be pointing the other way. It should be possible to turn around or remount the inner bogies, but the outside bogies have the correct detail of the leading guard irons, but also on the wrong end. Thus they've also managed to stick the bogie steps on the wrong end. So if it bothers you, you'll have to remove the irons and re-mount them on the other end of the bogie. Luckily the motor bogies seem correct as they are.

 

Oddly enough the promo artwork has the correct arrangement, so it looks like the factory has slipped up on assembly. The blue unit VEP displayed on Hatton's site has incorrect trailer bogies.

 

What next ? BK

 

Shame really because the bogies looked to be nicely moulded. Is it really true that there are no pin-point axles on any of the bogies?

 

This brings back memories from the 1980s, when Lima modelled their B4 bogies back-to-front and put their couplings on the wrong end !

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Terrific. Just bit the bullet and ordered an NSE one earlier too... :O

 

EDIT: Is it incorrect in any of these shots?

 

Just looked at the NSE one shown here. Bad news, all six trailer bogies are wrong on this livery too. The traction rod (or tommy bar) should point towards the middle of the coach. The angled bracket that it connects to, should also be at the inner end. The outside bogies (under the cabs) are the tricky bit, you need to turn the bogies around, move the guard irons and steps to the other end.

 

Have a look at the artwork on a "pre-order" one.

 

Of course, there may be some correctly assembled ones out there somewhere? BK

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Just looked at the NSE one shown here. Bad news, all six trailer bogies are wrong on this livery too. The traction rod (or tommy bar) should point towards the middle of the coach. The angled bracket that it connects to, should also be at the inner end. The outside bogies (under the cabs) are the tricky bit, you need to turn the bogies around, move the guard irons and steps to the other end.

 

Have a look at the artwork on a "pre-order" one.

 

Of course, there may be some correctly assembled ones out there somewhere? BK

 

Thanks for checking for me Brian. I shall photograph mine when it arrives and we can all make our minds up...I think an email to Hornby may be in order later tomorrow if that is the case. Not a happy bunny, particularly when I um'd and ah'd and against my better judgement thought "sod it, I can modify it later on..." (!)

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The artwork on the box appears correct on the bogie orientation issue and my model is wrong. Ah well...

 

Anyway, whilst watching The Hunt For Red October, I got to work doing a little work on one Driving Trailer:

post-6910-0-60955700-1316041708_thumb.jpg

 

Apart from the obvious renumber to a Brighton VEP and the addition of the rather unimpressive headcode stickers (67 - decidedly unglamorous Littlehampton - Bognor shuttle!!) I have used a pencil on the ridge between the two sections of the corridor connection, used the Replica Railways EMU cab end detailing pack to replace the horns with something a bit more realistic and also fitted the tightlock coupler from the same pack as well.

 

Meanwhile the cab front windows have been picked out in black. The background of the cable recesses should also be black, a job maybe for later. Not a huge amount of work but it does seem to at least partially address some of the more obvious cosmetic issues, especially the horns.

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To those that have them, has anyone considered how to amend the first class comparment walls? Or is it possible one for an etched frame replacement like PHD's "seating" for the class 150? Still trying to decide whether to take the plunge or as I think an NSE one will look good next to my NSE 2-EPB :)

 

I got as far as looking at the interior of one of my DTCs. I think the most realistic approach will be to cut out most of the solid corridor walls in each compartment (certainly, down to seat level) and then use a piece of 10 thou styrene to form new sides. The seats in the first class compartments look very good (as do the all-blue loo and sink in the toilet!), and I don't immediately see how to remove the interior for a more major replacement. New compartment sides will need a recess in one of the compartments for the fixing bar which is across the inside of the roof.

 

This is particularly sad because the "white" (actually, a very pale grey) on the corridor side looks spot-on and I don't think I can replicate that shade for a new corridor side.

 

For me, this isn't a priority - I'm more interested in trying to fill the gaps between the gangways within the unit (I hate passengers falling out ;-), exploring my options for the end gangway, and seeing if it corners better without the end NEM adaptor. At least the bodies seem to be very easy to separate, with a robust plug for the lighting electrics, so I think it will be easy to revisit the interiors.

 

ĸen [ edit: reworded - I don't want to encourage people to cut the *compartment* dividing walls ;-) ]

Edited by zarniwhoop
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Well, thanks, I'll hold off buying one for now until further is reported on the Bogie front (all I can really add is that D&F models in Glasgow have both blue and NSE versions for £150, so, naturally decided to avoid buying one).

 

Just waiting for my Blue Modelzone EPB instead now! :yahoo: (I hope they do a VEP in the same livery too, a la 3417 Gordon Petit).

Edited by 303013
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BREAKING NEWS: (Ya not gonna like this)

Houston we have a new problem. It has been brought to my attention that all six VEP trailer bogies have been modelled the wrong way around on at least some or possibly all of the production. In other words, the traction rods (the round section hinged from the middle) should be pointing the other way. It should be possible to turn around or remount the inner bogies, but the outside bogies have the correct detail of the leading guard irons, but also on the wrong end. Thus they've also managed to stick the bogie steps on the wrong end. So if it bothers you, you'll have to remove the irons and re-mount them on the other end of the bogie. Luckily the motor bogies seem correct as they are.

 

Oddly enough the promo artwork has the correct arrangement, so it looks like the factory has slipped up on assembly. The blue unit VEP displayed on Hatton's site has incorrect trailer bogies.

 

What next ? BK

 

Shame really because the bogies looked to be nicely moulded. Is it really true that there are no pin-point axles on any of the bogies?

 

This brings back memories from the 1980s, when Lima modelled their B4 bogies back-to-front and put their couplings on the wrong end !

 

Big Trouble in Little China? - There seems to have been a similar problem a while ago with back to front assembly with the six wheeled T9 tender :rolleyes: ...

I've held off getting one for now until the extent of the problems has been fully plummed, I'm not an expert so I thank everyone for their wise input...

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Big Trouble in Little China? - There seems to have been a similar problem a while ago with back to front assembly with the six wheeled T9 tender :rolleyes: ...

I've held off getting one for now until the extent of the problems has been fully plummed, I'm not an expert so I thank everyone for their wise input...

 

Bill

 

Just a slight correction, to prevent a further myth perpetuating, the T9 tender frame mistake (along with the injector pipe work going in the wrong direction) was an actual design issue not a simple chinese assembly mistake, as it was not in fact possible to simply turn the frames around without cutting off one of the lugs which would then block the body fixing screw.

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The VEPs hadn't been on the New Line for that many years, I don't think, as I recall EPBs there. Was it an EPB that failed to stop in the bay at Guildford, crashing through the stops and killing a manager in his office?

Correct on both counts Ian.

 

Veps were drafted to the Guildford "New" line to replace EPB units and as a stop-gap until sufficient 455s were available. First class had not been offered on that line on a regular basis since electrification. The humble 4Vep has been something of a "maid of all work" appearing on most lines on a scheduled basis over the years including some diagrammed suburban workings. Of the latter most were one-off trips and effectively positioning moves or infil trips.

Sorry guys, but I went to school in Horsley (early/mid 70s) (where our playing fields overlooked the line) and then in Godalming (mid/late 70s), so had first hand experience of the New Line over many years and I only ever remember seeing Blue/Grey VEPs on the trains via Cobham and Stoke D'Abernon. 4SUBs/4EPBs worked to Effingham Junction via Leatherhead (from both Waterloo and Victoria) but the connection to Horsley and Guildford was always VEP. And VEPs were being used when the 455s arrived - IIRC the well known railway author Alan Williams was one of those protesting the loss of 1st Class. Perhaps outside these periods EPBs were used, or worked some trains, but the main service including off peak was VEP.

Edited by brushman47544
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BREAKING NEWS: (Ya not gonna like this)

Houston we have a new problem. It has been brought to my attention that all six VEP trailer bogies have been modelled the wrong way around..................................

Actually this was mentioned in the 'Rail Express' review some three weeks ago.

 

Along with the missing door handles on one side to the extra seating area on the refurbished version.

 

Incidentally 'reading between the lines' in the 'Rail Express' review I got the impression that the first two releases were good for those with the skills (and hack saw!) to make the required corrections.

 

For those of us who like a reasonably accurate model straight out the box subsequent 'corrected' batches (China permitting) may be a better proposition.

Edited by jonathan452
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Along with the missing door handles on one side to the extra seating area on the refurbished version.

 

This is starting to turn into a bit of a nightmare for me... :O

 

Anything else? We've got undersized air horns, missing door handles, bogies on the wrong way round, traction tyres, missing compartment due to motor bogie...!

 

In all, I am severely regretting letting the wannabe modeller in me win the day yesterday... :nono:

 

EDIT:

 

Mine has just arrived. Interesting facet: it has a slip which says "DCC Fitted" in the box, but mine is not fitted with a chip.

 

However, there is a much more pressing problem. My VEP does not include a motorised model. It has two unpowered coaches.

 

I think a strong drink, a shower, and a swift call to Hattons is in order.

 

EDIT 2:

 

Embarrassment all round - it has got a motor, however another (interesting!) problem has arisen.

 

Now the motor is meant to be in the coach body 62467. Mine is in 71146. So a simple body swap (not so simple) means the unit is now correct.

 

Have rung Hattons - twice - first to notify of the first suspected problem - then to notify of my error and the second problem.

 

So, hands in the air - I got it wrong, I do have a motor, but it was in the other centre coach as opposed the other...

Edited by S.A.C Martin
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Mine has just arrived. Interesting facet: it has a slip which says "DCC Fitted" in the box, but mine is not fitted with a chip.

 

 

Oh dear, so they're not even consistently wrong in this respect. There's going to be some confused punters on the Hornby forum.

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Sorry to hear about your problems S.A.C., but at least you've managed to correct the assembly problem, the missing door handles is a new pain. Have you now got the correct chassis with the right steps per vehicle?

 

I feel sorry for any retailers caught in the middle of this, if any have read these posts about the incorrectly assembled bogies, they may fear a number of units being returned.

 

If you were a retailer, what would you do?: Would you:-

(a ) Return all unsold incorrect VEP stock to Hornby?

(b ) Try and rectify the VEP bogie problems yourselves?

(c ) Keep quiet and do nothing?

 

Cheers, Brian.

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If I were a retailer I would be demanding urgent action from Margate whilst at the same time being prepared to sell Veps to anyone willing to purchase them "as seen" with known faults identified before sale. I'm afraid this whole episode is turning into a farce which is eroding my confidence in Hornby coming up with worthwhile products in the future. I will not condemn nor criticise what doesn't yet exist but there do seem to be very serious problems of communication and quality control here which need addressing if future releases are not to suffer the same fate.

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