Peterborough North

[davidw]

Love the triplet Gilbert, and the Cravens is icing on the cake!

 

Thanks

 

Andy

Was the cravens always in the consist?

[trw1089]

Yes, nice to see the Cravens and the triplet, especially after Tony Wright’s pics earlier in the thread. I wish those triplets sometimes ventured to Leeds, I could do with a nice set like that.

 

Cheers

Tony

[thegreenhowards]

Was the cravens always in the consist?

David,

 

The simple answer to that question is 'no'...obviously! But the SO lasted quite a while. Firstly, there was only one vehicle and the Northumbrian set was rather inefficiently used heading north one day, and then doing nothing until working south the next day. So the Cravens coach alternated with one from BRCW, E4637, which looked rather more conventional from the outside, but still had the generous leg room of the Cravens coach with only 39 seats.

 

According to the carriage workings (thanks to Robert Carroll) the Cravens SO started working in winter '58/59 and continued until winter '62/63. They were built in 1957, so in practice I suspect they were in the formation by early 1958, but it took the carriage workings a while to catch up. Initially, there was also a Cravens FO, E3082 again alternating with a BRCW FO, E3081 in the Northumbrian. This appears in the winter'58/59 carriage workings, but had disappeared by Winter '59/60 (I don't have summer1959).

 

I don't know what they did after they came out of the Northumbrian. Parker's Mk 1 book mentions Euston-Liverpool services, but the allocations in the Longworth mk 1&2 book show the SO moving to a 'NE' prefix in 1965, and the FO to a 'W' prefix at the same time.

 

I should stress that this is all based on the carriage workings whereas Tony and Gilbert base their formations to some extent on photos, so they may be more accurate to what actually happened.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[davidw]

David,

 

The simple answer to that question is 'no'...obviously! But the SO lasted quite a while. Firstly, there was only one vehicle and the Northumbrian set was rather inefficiently used heading north one day, and then doing nothing until working south the next day. So the Cravens coach alternated with one from BRCW, E4637, which looked rather more conventional from the outside, but still had the generous leg room of the Cravens coach with only 39 seats.

 

According to the carriage workings (thanks to Robert Carroll) the Cravens SO started working in winter '58/59 and continued until winter '62/63. They were built in 1957, so in practice I suspect they were in the formation by early 1958, but it took the carriage workings a while to catch up. Initially, there was also a Cravens FO, E3082 again alternating with a BRCW FO, E3081 in the Northumbrian. This appears in the winter'58/59 carriage workings, but had disappeared by Winter '59/60 (I don't have summer1959).

 

I don't know what they did after they came out of the Northumbrian. Parker's Mk 1 book mentions Euston-Liverpool services, but the allocations in the Longworth mk 1&2 book show the SO moving to a 'NE' prefix in 1965, and the FO to a 'W' prefix at the same time.

 

I should stress that this is all based on the carriage workings whereas Tony and Gilbert base their formations to some extent on photos, so they may be more accurate to what actually happened.

 

Regards

 

Andy

Thanks for that. I was debating what I needed as I model 1960 +/- 2years

Edited November 22, 2017 by davidw

[thegreenhowards]

Thanks for that. I was debating what I nerded as I model 1960 +/- 2years

 

I'd say you need the Cravens SO. Southern Pride do a kit. You also probably need the '38 triplet, although that had been dropped by '60/61 for a Mk1 RKB/FO, so you could make your life easier (and less interesting?!) if you so choose.

[31A]

The Cravens SO sometimes turned up in Cambridge-KX sets when I was a spotter at Cambridge, late 60s I should think ( I don’t think it was ever painted blue / grey?).

[great northern]

Yes, nice to see the Cravens and the triplet, especially after Tony Wright’s pics earlier in the thread. I wish those triplets sometimes ventured to Leeds, I could do with a nice set like that.

 

Cheers

Tony

There was a 1020am from KX in1958, 54 Down, which contained a triplet, Tony. It was the one that had a portion for Ripon, as well as Bradford. The triplet worked as far as Leeds, then returned on the 5.33pm Up. Given that these trains had sometimes been running in those paths, and with that stock since LNER times, it might be worth investigating whether it was the same in the early '50s. I'm sure I've also seen triplets specified in some of the Saturdays only trains.

[great northern]

New England had been given notice that something bigger than a B1 would need to be ready to take over the Northumbrian when it arrived, and so a replacement was in place in the bay, and has now backed on. Apparently there wasn't a Pacific available though. The original V2 pilot, you may recall, had already been used earlier in the day.

While that V2 was getting ready to leave, another rolled in with an Up Doncaster semi fast.

[trw1089]

There was a 1020am from KX in1958, 54 Down, which contained a triplet, Tony. It was the one that had a portion for Ripon, as well as Bradford. The triplet worked as far as Leeds, then returned on the 5.33pm Up. Given that these trains had sometimes been running in those paths, and with that stock since LNER times, it might be worth investigating whether it was the same in the early '50s. I'm sure I've also seen triplets specified in some of the Saturdays only trains.

Thanks Gilbert

 

I think those SO trains do need further investigation and I’ll see about 54 down if it was there in the early 50s.

 

Much appreciated good sir!

 

Cheers

Tony

[davidw]

I'd say you need the Cravens SO. Southern Pride do a kit. You also probably need the '38 triplet, although that had been dropped by '60/61 for a Mk1 RKB/FO, so you could make your life easier (and less interesting?!) if you so choose.

 

Already got the RKB/FO resided Bachmann mk1's but they form a different set

[great northern]

Today I have been mostly dabbing and spreading. Here are some of the results, about which I really would appreciate opinions, favourable or otherwise. I do want to get the layout looking presentable again, so please do tell me if you don't think I'm succeeding. So here is a bit of recoloured ballast at the north end.

and here is what it looked like after I had dabbed and spread a bit more.

and a somewhat closer view.

Anything would look better than the expanse of desert which was there before, but I am cautiously optimistic about this. The light was very poor today, and I had to stand between what was available and the areas I needed to cover, so it may need a bit of touching up when the light is better. I shall also be doing a bit of dusting and highlighting with different colours, and some serious dirt spreading where that should take place. A lot of sleepers will need cleaning up too.

 

I also wanted to get some more views of the beautiful bridge, so I started by taking a view from Station Road.

Station Road does not rise and then dip under the bridge, whatever the camera may allege. Very conveniently though, it did end in a T junction almost immediately after it got to the other side, and there was a building acroos the junction which will make a perfect end piece. What the building was, I don't know, and I suspect I never will, but Peter will come up with something which looks right. I've found just one picture of that area....taken after the buildings I want to see were demolished.

 

Then I placed the camera on the loading dock, the surface of which, incidentally, is temporary.

 I debated whether or not I should photoshop all of those tiny apertures in the cross beams, and decided that I would. It may be some time before I do it again though.

[Market65]

That ballast really is looking like ballast, Gilbert, and once you’ve highlighted where locos stand, etc, it will be just so real. The Sahara will soon be gone!

And that last photo’ of Crescent bridge is stunning. It’s more than worth the time and effort to get it photoshopped.

 

Best regards,

 

Rob.

[westerner]

It was well worth the effort Gilbert.

[KNP]

Vast improvement, are you going to seal it?

[great northern]

Vast improvement, are you going to seal it?

Thanks Kevin. That's a good question, and the answer is that I haven't decided yet! If it stays put OK I may well decide to leave it as it is, but if any dust starts to get on the track and clog up wheels, that would be a different matter.

[trw1089]

I think it is a great improvement, especially with the rails retaining some of their rust colouring.  It might help to clean off the brickwork with just a wipe or blend in the little bits of grey that got on it by rubbing over it with a soft brush or with some reddish brown to give it a bit of weathering.

[great northern]

Time to get back to happenings in 1958 now, which means photos taken several days ago, and a return to the desert. There, we take another look at the two V2s.

Then we follow 60862 to the other end of the station, where the desert had already been eradicated, at least in one area.

 

More work will be done tomorrow, as I don't fancy golf in 40mph winds, and it is extremely frustrating at the moment anyway. I also have some new BSOs and FOs to weather and enrol into the fleet.

[thegreenhowards]

Thanks Gilbert

I think those SO trains do need further investigation and I’ll see about 54 down if it was there in the early 50s.

Much appreciated good sir!

Cheers

Tony

Tony,

 

The Carter article on LNER Kitchen cars in Backtrack v10 number 11 has a section on triplet workings. It states that one did the 10:18 am KGX-LDS and 5:15pm return from about 1952 until commencement on the 1959 winter timetable. That should provide your perfect excuse!

 

Regards

 

Andy

[trw1089]

Thanks Andy,

 

Just looking at the Carraige Workings I have, the 1951 Summer GN one (thanks Robert Carroll) shows No.54 without the triplet but unfortunately the 1952 ones I have are just the ECML and don't show the trains to Leeds (except the Queen of Scots) hence why I wasn't aware of the triplets being in Leeds formations.  Looks like they will need to be on my carraige building list now!

 

Cheers

Tony

Edited November 23, 2017 by trw1089

[great northern]

I'm well into this powdering lark now, so very shortly I'll be on my way to do some more. We have one more photo of the old order, as 60862 waits for the off, before becoming the last loco to pass under the old bridge.

Then we have the first service train to pass under the new bridge. That honour fell to Doncaster's 60119, on its way to Leeds.

Plenty of work still to be done around here, but I think this area can be made to look acceptable, even though the curve is far too tight to represent the prototype. Right, let's get on!

 

[Mallard60022]

Gilbert, you mentioned that one of your V2s is about to 'pass away'. If it is really going to go, may I ask if it could be 'transferred' to 72A to replace a Spam that has been taken out of service to have checks made on axles? It would give me an excuse to run it on very rare occasions on SOSJ as per prototype circa 1955 I think it was?

maybe an 'arrangment' could be agreed?

Phil

[great northern]

Gilbert, you mentioned that one of your V2s is about to 'pass away'. If it is really going to go, may I ask if it could be 'transferred' to 72A to replace a Spam that has been taken out of service to have checks made on axles? It would give me an excuse to run it on very rare occasions on SOSJ as per prototype circa 1955 I think it was?

maybe an 'arrangment' could be agreed?

Phil

It will be a while yet before I can part with any Phil, as I have nowhere near enough as it is. The very worst will be consigned to the pilot job, which usually involves sitting there all day doing nowt, but the rest must soldier on until Bachmann get on with the promised retool. When(if) that happens, I'm sure a transfer can be arranged.

[great northern]

Some photos to show the fruits of today's labours, which were actually quite protracted.

As you can see, we still have an overhang on the right hand side, but I agree with Peter that it does make the bridge more symetrical. There will be a short baseboard extension on which it can rest, eventually.

Included to show much dirtier colouring around the water crane, and where engines stand, but it doesn't show up very well.

A fair amount of progress at this end too.

This is a base coat only, so some of the bits I've missed will get covered up in due course.

 

That was definitely more enjoyable than golf.

[Mallard60022]

It will be a while yet before I can part with any Phil, as I have nowhere near enough as it is. The very worst will be consigned to the pilot job, which usually involves sitting there all day doing nowt, but the rest must soldier on until Bachmann get on with the promised retool. When(if) that happens, I'm sure a transfer can be arranged.

It will be quite a long time before any V2 workings would appear on SOSJ, so that is lovely thank you.

Phil

[Tony Wright]

Some photos to show the fruits of today's labours, which were actually quite protracted.

ballast 1.JPG

ballast 2.JPG

As you can see, we still have an overhang on the right hand side, but I agree with Peter that it does make the bridge more symetrical. There will be a short baseboard extension on which it can rest, eventually.

ballast 3.JPG

Included to show much dirtier colouring around the water crane, and where engines stand, but it doesn't show up very well.

ballast 4.JPG

ballast 5.JPG

A fair amount of progress at this end too.

ballast 6.JPG

ballast 7.JPG

This is a base coat only, so some of the bits I've missed will get covered up in due course.

 

That was definitely more enjoyable than golf.

The difference the powders make to the previous Saharan scene is remarkable. My compliments. 

 

It might be a good idea to dust over a light coating of matt varnish, just to finally seal it (wiping the rails immediately after). I don't have an airbrush, but somebody else must. 

 

Going back to 'The Northumbrian' consist. Shouldn't the Cravens SO be ahead of the catering triplet in the Down train? I haven't looked back, but, from memory, it appeared to be behind the trio in your picture. I've found no picture of any of the triplet sets post-'57 without the BR roundel. When I'm next over, I'll put some on for you. The set I've been part of the building of is on Wright Writes.